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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sprout on September 10, 2020, 12:36:25 PM

Title: The West is on fire
Post by: sprout on September 10, 2020, 12:36:25 PM
Literally.

Anyone here dealing with wildfires, personally or professionally?  I'm in a safe area, but I have family who are too close for comfort. 
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: San Joaquin on September 10, 2020, 12:46:01 PM
We had the apocalyptic red sky and have been having wicked nasty air quality for a few weeks now.  But we are not in the fire zones per se, and we are grateful for that.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: eigen on September 10, 2020, 02:14:11 PM
Yeah, it's bad here. Trying to keep teaching with the world on fire around us and keep track of students as they're moving around to help with fires.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 10, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
When I moved here a few years ago, it was in the middle of the Eye of Sauron. The Eye returned the next year, but has been mostly held at bay for the last couple. There've only been a few very hazy days.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: apl68 on September 10, 2020, 02:44:27 PM
We live in a timber-growing area further east, so forest fire is something that concerns us here too.  But we've been wet enough not to worry too much this year.

Several posters here have been complaining about smoke lately.  How has it been today?
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Hegemony on September 10, 2020, 03:15:47 PM
Very bad out there today, and we are in the path of the fire, though we're not on the evacuation list yet. Several of my students have been evacuated or, worse, had their houses burn down. It is truly extraordinary out there. They're evacuating the first evacuation gathering point, and we're about to run out of safe places for people to evacuate to. We desperately need a change in the wind, more firefighters, and (least likely of all) rain.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: polly_mer on September 10, 2020, 03:23:56 PM
We had snow and rain, which has helped with the smoke.  No one here is evacuating due to the fires themselves, but the air quality has been so bad that we have had stay-inside orders.  We can taste the air even inside, but it's worse outside.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: eigen on September 10, 2020, 03:41:02 PM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 10, 2020, 03:15:47 PM
Very bad out there today, and we are in the path of the fire, though we're not on the evacuation list yet. Several of my students have been evacuated or, worse, had their houses burn down. It is truly extraordinary out there. They're evacuating the first evacuation gathering point, and we're about to run out of safe places for people to evacuate to. We desperately need a change in the wind, more firefighters, and (least likely of all) rain.

Same. Students have been having to help family evacuate, or friends, or both.

Air quality is so bad here that the local station is broken from off-the-chart high.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Puget on September 10, 2020, 04:29:36 PM
Thinking of all of you. Wildfire season is the only thing I don't miss form the Rockies.

Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: mahagonny on September 10, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I wonder if there could be any way to detect them sooner. Technology? Of course I'm not the first smart person asking this.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: mamselle on September 10, 2020, 04:45:29 PM
Thinking of everyone in any way dealing with this, and hoping all will do well.

Best thoughts--M.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: polly_mer on September 10, 2020, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 10, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I wonder if there could be any way to detect them sooner. Technology? Of course I'm not the first smart person asking this.

Our wildfires are all lightning-caused and were detected almost immediately because it's wildfire season and we're in drought conditions.  However, we have great wilderness management, unlike California with the misguided lack of wilderness management and apparently a lot of careless people who keep setting fires.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
Quote from: polly_mer on September 10, 2020, 05:10:45 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 10, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I wonder if there could be any way to detect them sooner. Technology? Of course I'm not the first smart person asking this.

Our wildfires are all lightning-caused and were detected almost immediately because it's wildfire season and we're in drought conditions.  However, we have great wilderness management, unlike California with the misguided lack of wilderness management and apparently a lot of careless people who keep setting fires.

Ours were also started by lightning.

A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

Oh yeah, and there was a gender reveal party that went wrong,  but those have happened in several states.  (https://www.forbes.com/sites/elanagross/2020/09/07/california-fire-is-latest-gender-reveal-to-go-disastrously-wrong/#1f60f16753f1)

Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 10, 2020, 07:01:58 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 10, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I wonder if there could be any way to detect them sooner. Technology? Of course I'm not the first smart person asking this.

My sister's research is on this topic. My takeaway from her work is that yes, you can absolutely do it with thermal imaging, although early detection requires some significant investment in resources...

...but there's a beetle out there that's even better at detecting distant early fires than thermal imaging is. All her research was scooped by a beetle.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: polly_mer on September 11, 2020, 06:20:23 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

That's a dramatically underinformed statement of the whole reality.  Yes, some utilities underfunded, but they and other agencies were legally prevented from good land management that includes reducing what fires can do as they burn.

We have real land management here based on science that includes just letting things burn because we're not highly populated right next to overgrown fuel-rich forests.  California is the poster child for failure on science lessons from wild land and forest management because the environmental activists are not scientists and get enacted legal protections that are misguided in achieving the stated goals.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: apl68 on September 11, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 10, 2020, 04:34:45 PM
I wonder if there could be any way to detect them sooner. Technology? Of course I'm not the first smart person asking this.

Even with quick detection, in very dry conditions these fires can blow up to unmanageable levels with blinding speed.  They're often already seriously out of control before firefighters can be mobilized and gotten to the scene. 
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: apl68 on September 11, 2020, 07:56:58 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on September 11, 2020, 06:20:23 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

That's a dramatically underinformed statement of the whole reality.  Yes, some utilities underfunded, but they and other agencies were legally prevented from good land management that includes reducing what fires can do as they burn.

We have real land management here based on science that includes just letting things burn because we're not highly populated right next to overgrown fuel-rich forests.  California is the poster child for failure on science lessons from wild land and forest management because the environmental activists are not scientists and get enacted legal protections that are misguided in achieving the stated goals.

Articles I've seen on the subject have indicated that opposition to proper controlled burning in California isn't so much from environmentalists--they mostly seem to understand the need by now--as from not-in-my-back-yard objections to controlled burns, and lack of budget to manage controlled burns.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Thursday's_Child on September 11, 2020, 10:40:59 AM
https://wildfiretoday.com/   has lots of good information
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: spork on September 11, 2020, 11:18:11 AM
100K people ordered to evacuate in Oregon?
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: eigen on September 11, 2020, 11:37:37 AM
Quote from: spork on September 11, 2020, 11:18:11 AM
100K people ordered to evacuate in Oregon?

And around 500k evacuated whether mandatory or recommended.

A fair number are also evacuating to escape the smoke and really horrible air quality. It's been in the 400-600 range consistently for a few days.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Caracal on September 11, 2020, 12:35:22 PM
Quote from: polly_mer on September 11, 2020, 06:20:23 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

That's a dramatically underinformed statement of the whole reality.  Yes, some utilities underfunded, but they and other agencies were legally prevented from good land management that includes reducing what fires can do as they burn.

We have real land management here based on science that includes just letting things burn because we're not highly populated right next to overgrown fuel-rich forests.  California is the poster child for failure on science lessons from wild land and forest management because the environmental activists are not scientists and get enacted legal protections that are misguided in achieving the stated goals.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/nov/12/donald-trump/trumps-overly-simplistic-and-false-claim-californi/

These claims appear to be false.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: nescafe on September 11, 2020, 01:02:13 PM
Spouse and I are in CA but are okay. His aunt had to evacuate in a hurry two weeks ago. When she was allowed to return home, she discovered her house was fine, but her neighbor four doors down lost everything.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 04:03:12 PM
The smoke has gotten considerably worse since yesterday, and we're in Eye of Sauron territory again for the first time in a couple years. I can no longer see either the ocean or the mountains (which are just a couple of klicks away). Actually, a lot of the trees further down my hill are starting to disappear from view.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: spork on September 12, 2020, 04:06:20 PM
2049 arrived earlier than expected. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_m9TUP_t_Y&ab_channel=terrythethunder)
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: hmaria1609 on September 12, 2020, 07:17:45 PM
I didn't realize the smoke had spread for miles and miles.  Stay safe and let us know how you're doing when you can.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: larryc on September 13, 2020, 12:29:04 AM
i am in Spokane. Earlier this week we had lightning and a day of 50 mph winds across the state, there were some vicious fires. Two tiny towns to the south burned up completely, they are gone. Today the smoke blanket moved in and the air is basically unbreathable, just short of 500 on the pollution scale right now. I ran out this morning and got some of the last furnace filters and box fans and made some DIY air filters. Dropped one off at an elderly colleague's home.

Good luck everyone!
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Puget on September 13, 2020, 07:14:37 AM
Quote from: larryc on September 13, 2020, 12:29:04 AM
i am in Spokane. Earlier this week we had lightning and a day of 50 mph winds across the state, there were some vicious fires. Two tiny towns to the south burned up completely, they are gone. Today the smoke blanket moved in and the air is basically unbreathable, just short of 500 on the pollution scale right now. I ran out this morning and got some of the last furnace filters and box fans and made some DIY air filters. Dropped one off at an elderly colleague's home.

Good luck everyone!

Hope they work and things improve soon larryc!

My parents are on the other side of the state-- there's briefly got above 300 but is now back to around 200 in the merely "unhealthy" range. I think most of their smoke is from the fires in Oregon.

Meanwhile, friends in Colorado sent pictures of hiking in the snow with clear blue skies after the freak early snowstorm there suppressed the big fire on the northern edge of RMNP. That cold front was a most welcome invasion from Canada (though not for farmers)!
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: eigen on September 13, 2020, 03:24:59 PM
Quote from: larryc on September 13, 2020, 12:29:04 AM
i am in Spokane. Earlier this week we had lightning and a day of 50 mph winds across the state, there were some vicious fires. Two tiny towns to the south burned up completely, they are gone. Today the smoke blanket moved in and the air is basically unbreathable, just short of 500 on the pollution scale right now. I ran out this morning and got some of the last furnace filters and box fans and made some DIY air filters. Dropped one off at an elderly colleague's home.

Good luck everyone!

Yeah, this is where we've been for almost a week now. AQI raises and drops over the day from around 200 at the lowest to around 600 at the highest. Thankfully the fires aren't moving closer, but we're otherwise right on the edge of the current evacuation zones.

The box fans + filters do a really good job. Thankfully our house is also pretty well insulated so not a lot is going in.

Plastic + tape over things like bathroom fans / fireplaces / kitchen fans can help a lot too.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Economizer on September 13, 2020, 06:39:35 PM
Quote from: polly_mer on September 11, 2020, 06:20:23 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

That's a dramatically underinformed statement of the whole reality.  Yes, some utilities underfunded, but they and other agencies were legally prevented from good land management that includes reducing what fires can do as they burn.

We have real land management here based on science that includes just letting things burn because we're not highly populated right next to overgrown fuel-rich forests.  California is the poster child for failure on science lessons from wild land and forest management because the environmental activists are not scientists and get enacted legal protections that are misguided in achieving the stated goals.
And planning and zoning!
Quote from: polly_mer on September 11, 2020, 06:20:23 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 10, 2020, 05:48:23 PM
A few years ago we discovered the hard way that our public utility, with private investors (what could possibly go wrong) was underfunding their capital maintenance programs.

That's a dramatically underinformed statement of the whole reality.  Yes, some utilities underfunded, but they and other agencies were legally prevented from good land management that includes reducing what fires can do as they burn.

We have real land management here based on science that includes just letting things burn because we're not highly populated right next to overgrown fuel-rich forests.  California is the poster child for failure on science lessons from wild land and forest management because the environmental activists are not scientists and get enacted legal protections that are misguided in achieving the stated goals.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: pgher on September 13, 2020, 07:54:57 PM
I take a trip each fall out to a western state. My mom has found something new to worry about besides me getting COVID-19 from one of my students. I tried to tell her that there isn't an active fire within 100 miles of my destination. Distances out west are just so big compared to the east coast. All of New England would fit comfortably inside California.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: apl68 on September 15, 2020, 07:53:27 AM
The photographs that have been in the news of smoky air even miles from the nearest fire are just unreal.  I saw a report this morning of a motorist passing out on the Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile Sally is predicted to bring "historic flooding" to parts of the southeast tomorrow.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 15, 2020, 07:57:00 AM
Today, I can sort of see the water and the shoreline, but no mountains. We'll see if it lasts.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Wahoo Redux on September 15, 2020, 07:58:57 AM
I'm from that part of the world originally.

I am thinking of all the people and of all of you, but it also kills me to think of the forests.

Praying for the rainy season to start.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: wellfleet on September 15, 2020, 07:59:50 AM
There's a https://www2.purpleair.com/ (https://www2.purpleair.com/) sensor just up the road from my house that's been reading between 150-180 all week. When fires were a lot closer, it was higher than that. We get a lot of fog here, and now we've got smoke mixing with the marine layer, which is  . . . weird.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: FishProf on September 15, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
My parents are reporting Smoke from the California fires.

They are in Montana
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 15, 2020, 10:55:33 AM
Quote from: FishProf on September 15, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
My parents are reporting Smoke from the California fires.

They are in Montana

Could be Oregon or Washington too, though. Looks like the smoke extends as far as the east coast now.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Larimar on September 15, 2020, 02:53:26 PM
Quote from: FishProf on September 15, 2020, 10:51:13 AM
My parents are reporting Smoke from the California fires.

They are in Montana

Yeah, the smoke is spreading mind-bogglingly far. My mother said last week that she could sometimes see the smoke in the air from the fires, and her area has had dangerously bad air quality.

She is in northern Colorado.

I've also seen online NASA photos showing that the smoke cloud can be seen from space.

Larimar
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 15, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
I can see the outline of the mountains now.

But my parents on the east coast say their sun is hazy.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
The view is clearer today (I could see the sun earlier, can see the water, and the outline of the mainland and the mountains). But the air quality is about the same.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: wellfleet on September 16, 2020, 12:32:16 PM
Our AQI numbers plummeted into the green zone yesterday afternoon and fresh air has rarely smelled so good! I'm right by the water, so this has more to do with the direction of the prevailing winds than the lack of fires within 300 miles, but I'll take it.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: larryc on September 20, 2020, 11:21:00 PM
I am in Spokane in eastern Washington. Last week we had a day of 50-60 mph winds and fires blew up across the state. Two tiny towns to the south, Malden (pop. 200) and Pine City (100) burned almost completely, with nearly every building burned. My wife and I drove through them today, it was awful.

We had about a week of unbreathable air, with air quality as bad as over 500. When it first began I bought a bunch of furnace filters and box fans and made some DIY air filters. I took one to an older colleague. They worked really well.

This was about our fourth smoke season in the last five years, and the worst one yet. When the stores have box fans and furnace filters back in stock I am going to get some more and keep them handy.


Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 21, 2020, 08:34:11 AM
Things are good today, and were yesterday, too. Whew.
Title: Re: The West is on fire
Post by: apl68 on September 24, 2020, 07:24:53 AM
I just read Fire In Paradise, by Alastair Gee.  It's an account of the 2018 Camp Fire disaster.  Disasters like this used to happen only once in a generation.