https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/07/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-leave/index.html
This is an interesting story. The photo itself (easily viewable online) is "racy" in only the mildest sense of the word. Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
That said, I'm reminded of moments when conservatives cheer a progressive's descent into #MeToo hell, or a progressive's "cancellation." No, no, no. If an ideology is illegitimate, it's illegitimate whether it's attacking one's friends or one's enemies. Leftists should take note. If you don't like Liberty-style anti-intellectual Christianist legalism, you shouldn't like it when it eats Jerry Falwell, Jr.
I'd agree, but the picture is just the latest issue. There have been several stories detailing prior "indiscretions", some to the point of misuse of funds. Don't have them at my fingertips, and am in the midst of grading so I shouldn't procrastinate more.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. (https://www.propublica.org/article/liberty-university-online-jerry-falwell-jr)
Unfortunately he will probably never be prosecuted for financial crimes.
The point is to punish hypocrites. You can't build a career on purity and yourself be impure. He has never advocated for grace and forgiveness for others.
He's a sleazeball, and a corrupt one at that. And an excellent example of a sadly all-too common problem in American evangelicalism, namely the vastly too common use of/ reliance on nepotism.
Liberty students would be expelled for the same conduct, so writingprof is wrong.
A very long, long time ago, his dad, while not being my first choice for a ministerial presence in my life, at least had some good things to say and do.
It's a lot like Franky Schaeffer, or Billy Graham's son...they see the glitter but have lost the substance, somehow.
Choices, willfulness, and a loss of priorities and values are heightened in these settings.
M.
An excellent point about Franky S and Franklin G. Both are underwhelming dudes who'd have a hard time getting work pumping gas were it not for their pops. But both of these men are spiritual and ethical giants, compared to Jerry Jr.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on August 08, 2020, 07:56:44 AM
I'd agree, but the picture is just the latest issue. There have been several stories detailing prior "indiscretions", some to the point of misuse of funds. Don't have them at my fingertips, and am in the midst of grading so I shouldn't procrastinate more.
It's like he has been going through a second adolescence. Maybe President Trump rubbed off on him? Whatever the reason, his behavior is totally inappropriate in a man in a leadership position, and most especially a Christian position of leadership.
You're right of course, but I gotta come back to this nepotism issue. Jerry Sr., whatever his flaws, was a godly man who did a decent job building both his church and his school. He had two sons, left one of them the pastorate of the church (Jonathan?), who by all accounts is a good guy and a good pastor. But what the heck was he doing leaving the head of a college position to a man, Jerry Jr., who has no qualifications of any sort for such a position? Obviously the old man had blinders on, when he decided to do so. And this is, as I noted, sadly all too common in evangelical circles, many of whose 'ministries' (not all of which deserve the air quotes, of course) are really personal fiefdoms started and run by Pastor/ Dr. X, who expects to hand over the reigns to a son (or more than one son) much the same way Saddam Hussein groomed his own sons to replace him. Why evangelical believers tolerate this is perhaps a mystery, though I do of course have my suspicions.
Quote from: nebo113 on August 09, 2020, 04:44:24 AM
Liberty students would be expelled for the same conduct, so writingprof is wrong.
Since that is what I
said, I suppose I am "right."
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 10, 2020, 08:59:09 PM
You're right of course, but I gotta come back to this nepotism issue. Jerry Sr., whatever his flaws, was a godly man who did a decent job building both his church and his school. He had two sons, left one of them the pastorate of the church (Jonathan?), who by all accounts is a good guy and a good pastor. But what the heck was he doing leaving the head of a college position to a man, Jerry Jr., who has no qualifications of any sort for such a position? Obviously the old man had blinders on, when he decided to do so. And this is, as I noted, sadly all too common in evangelical circles, many of whose 'ministries' (not all of which deserve the air quotes, of course) are really personal fiefdoms started and run by Pastor/ Dr. X, who expects to hand over the reigns to a son (or more than one son) much the same way Saddam Hussein groomed his own sons to replace him. Why evangelical believers tolerate this is perhaps a mystery, though I do of course have my suspicions.
Some families get a reputation for producing ministers. I'm from one--my father, grandfather, and one uncle have all pastored churches. I suppose sometimes in such a family a youth who has no genuine calling for the ministry gets pushed into that role by family and social expectation. I've never seen that in our family. Maybe because we've always produced bi-vocational ministers with day jobs as bricklayers and mail carriers, and because our family was never instrumental in founding a new congregation. There was never a sense that we "owned" a church.
Most religions seem to have a tendency for clerical offices and institutions to turn into "family businesses." The Roman Catholic expectation of priestly celibacy was in large part an effort to prevent that.
Check out Jacob, Esau, and Isaac for an earlier mess...
M.
Quote from: mamselle on August 11, 2020, 09:59:09 AM
Check out Jacob, Esau, and Isaac for an earlier mess...
M.
Or perhaps more pertinently, the High Priest Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas.
I was just reading that last week.
Nothing new under the sun...or the tabernacle roof...
M.
Quote from: apl68 on August 11, 2020, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: mamselle on August 11, 2020, 09:59:09 AM
Check out Jacob, Esau, and Isaac for an earlier mess...
M.
Or perhaps more pertinently, the High Priest Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas.
That is some impressive Biblical literacy.
Quote from: writingprof on August 11, 2020, 12:48:32 PM
Quote from: apl68 on August 11, 2020, 10:58:07 AM
Quote from: mamselle on August 11, 2020, 09:59:09 AM
Check out Jacob, Esau, and Isaac for an earlier mess...
M.
Or perhaps more pertinently, the High Priest Eli's sons, Hophni and Phinehas.
That is some impressive Biblical literacy.
Well I AM, as noted above, from a family of ministers. Bible stories from Old and New Testaments were our bedtime reading growing up, along with
Treasure Island and
Black Beauty.
And besides writing, researching and teaching the liturgical arts (our Italian Renaissance art history instructor told us the first week to read the Hebrew Scriptures, and the next to read the NT, "because a lot of the art you're going to see in this class is based on those two books) I read two chapters a day and have for years.
It just becomes a kind of language--Scriptural narratives become a kind of emotional shorthand, in something like the way Tolstoy saw art: a representation of emotional, spiritual, or metaphoric truth that summarizes the nub of the issue in a scene or a few names.
One forms, and is formed by, ones hemeneutic, maybe.
M.
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
This is an interesting story. The photo itself (easily viewable online) is "racy" in only the mildest sense of the word. Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
That said, I'm reminded of moments when conservatives cheer a progressive's descent into #MeToo hell, or a progressive's "cancellation." No, no, no. If an ideology is illegitimate, it's illegitimate whether it's attacking one's friends or one's enemies. Leftists should take note. If you don't like Liberty-style anti-intellectual Christianist legalism, you shouldn't like it when it eats Jerry Falwell, Jr.
Writingprof is correct: We shouldn't be interested merely in scoring points off each other politically; instead, we should be concerned about the disjointedness, lack of consistency, malicious intent masquerading as "truth" or "compassion," and other illnesses inherent in certain systems and ideological positions.
(Just trying to be real here, not defending Junior's choice to share a rather unappetizing selfie on social media.)
All that said, I would much rather have seen Liberty's board pitch Junior out of his position due to the multiple
other things he's done that show his lack of ability and questionable morality as a university leader.
Quote from: writingprof on August 11, 2020, 06:57:37 AM
Quote from: nebo113 on August 09, 2020, 04:44:24 AM
Liberty students would be expelled for the same conduct, so writingprof is wrong.
Since that is what I said, I suppose I am "right."
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
Check your language in bold type.
Quote from: paultuttle on August 12, 2020, 05:27:55 AM
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
This is an interesting story. The photo itself (easily viewable online) is "racy" in only the mildest sense of the word. Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
That said, I'm reminded of moments when conservatives cheer a progressive's descent into #MeToo hell, or a progressive's "cancellation." No, no, no. If an ideology is illegitimate, it's illegitimate whether it's attacking one's friends or one's enemies. Leftists should take note. If you don't like Liberty-style anti-intellectual Christianist legalism, you shouldn't like it when it eats Jerry Falwell, Jr.
Writingprof is correct: We shouldn't be interested merely in scoring points off each other politically; instead, we should be concerned about the disjointedness, lack of consistency, malicious intent masquerading as "truth" or "compassion," and other illnesses inherent in certain systems and ideological positions.
(Just trying to be real here, not defending Junior's choice to share a rather unappetizing selfie on social media.)
All that said, I would much rather have seen Liberty's board pitch Junior out of his position due to the multiple other things he's done that show his lack of ability and questionable morality as a university leader.
Liberty has appointed an "acting" prez. I never remember the distinction between
acting and
interim, bu I have a vague recollection that
acting signals that he is expected to return....which of course could change.
Quote from: paultuttle on August 12, 2020, 05:27:55 AM
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
This is an interesting story. The photo itself (easily viewable online) is "racy" in only the mildest sense of the word. Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
That said, I'm reminded of moments when conservatives cheer a progressive's descent into #MeToo hell, or a progressive's "cancellation." No, no, no. If an ideology is illegitimate, it's illegitimate whether it's attacking one's friends or one's enemies. Leftists should take note. If you don't like Liberty-style anti-intellectual Christianist legalism, you shouldn't like it when it eats Jerry Falwell, Jr.
Writingprof is correct: We shouldn't be interested merely in scoring points off each other politically; instead, we should be concerned about the disjointedness, lack of consistency, malicious intent masquerading as "truth" or "compassion," and other illnesses inherent in certain systems and ideological positions.
(Just trying to be real here, not defending Junior's choice to share a rather unappetizing selfie on social media.)
All that said, I would much rather have seen Liberty's board pitch Junior out of his position due to the multiple other things he's done that show his lack of ability and questionable morality as a university leader.
OP here. Didn't start this thread to score points. I'd read many things about prior issues, including the really good Probublica reporting the spork linked to. IMHO it was the many "other" things which led to the dismissal, and this incident was the final straw. Thanks to apl68 and mamselle for the Biblical perspective.
Quote from: nebo113 on August 12, 2020, 06:17:04 AM
Quote from: writingprof on August 11, 2020, 06:57:37 AM
Quote from: nebo113 on August 09, 2020, 04:44:24 AM
Liberty students would be expelled for the same conduct, so writingprof is wrong.
Since that is what I said, I suppose I am "right."
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
Check your language in bold type.
I wish others would weigh in, because now I'm beginning to doubt my own sanity. It seems clear to me that the message of my words was "It seems to me unlikely that a Liberty student could post such a picture without consequence."
Quote from: jimbogumbo on August 12, 2020, 06:27:23 AM
Quote from: paultuttle on August 12, 2020, 05:27:55 AM
Quote from: writingprof on August 08, 2020, 06:36:08 AM
This is an interesting story. The photo itself (easily viewable online) is "racy" in only the mildest sense of the word. Yet it's reasonable to argue that Falwell should be held to the same standard to which Liberty holds its students. Could one of them post such a picture without consequence? I honestly don't know, but it seems to me unlikely.
That said, I'm reminded of moments when conservatives cheer a progressive's descent into #MeToo hell, or a progressive's "cancellation." No, no, no. If an ideology is illegitimate, it's illegitimate whether it's attacking one's friends or one's enemies. Leftists should take note. If you don't like Liberty-style anti-intellectual Christianist legalism, you shouldn't like it when it eats Jerry Falwell, Jr.
Writingprof is correct: We shouldn't be interested merely in scoring points off each other politically; instead, we should be concerned about the disjointedness, lack of consistency, malicious intent masquerading as "truth" or "compassion," and other illnesses inherent in certain systems and ideological positions.
(Just trying to be real here, not defending Junior's choice to share a rather unappetizing selfie on social media.)
All that said, I would much rather have seen Liberty's board pitch Junior out of his position due to the multiple other things he's done that show his lack of ability and questionable morality as a university leader.
OP here. Didn't start this thread to score points. I'd read many things about prior issues, including the really good Probublica reporting the spork linked to. IMHO it was the many "other" things which led to the dismissal, and this incident was the final straw. Thanks to apl68 and mamselle for the Biblical perspective.
Yes, this was surely a last straw in a long line of increasingly disturbing and embarrassing incidents.
Back in the news again.
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/08/21/were-falwell's-yacht-vacations-aboveboard
He's the Steve Bannon of College Presidents. Religion is just a racket for him, most likely.
Here is the full article from Politico.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/20/falwells-yacht-use-under-scrutiny-399424
It's like he wasn't even trying to hide this stuff, FFS.
Well, this took a turn: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/24/report-former-pool-boy-describes-years-long-sexual-relationship-with-jerry-falwell-jr-and-wife/#42b9f34e66da
Thy shalt not covet thy neighbor's bisexual pool boy.
And he's out: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/jerry-falwell-jr-resigns-liberty-university/index.html
As an evangelical, I can only hope Junior drops into a black hole and is never publicly heard from again. The Scriptures obviously do speak of repentance leading to restoration of one's relationship with God, but they really, properly interpreted, also teach that those having fallen into this sort of sin forfeit their church offices forever, though many evangelicals do not seem to realize this, a problem especially stark in the realm of parachurch ministries and independent churches, where no outside force is able to tell the offender, supposedly 'reformed' that he actually cannot reclaim authority in 'his' ministry.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on August 24, 2020, 03:53:06 PM
And he's out: https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/24/us/jerry-falwell-jr-resigns-liberty-university/index.html
Except
maybe. Apparently, they're bickering over filthy lucre.
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 24, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
As an evangelical, I can only hope Junior drops into a black hole and is never publicly heard from again. The Scriptures obviously do speak of repentance leading to restoration of one's relationship with God, but they really, properly interpreted, also teach that those having fallen into this sort of sin forfeit their church offices forever, though many evangelicals do not seem to realize this, a problem especially stark in the realm of parachurch ministries and independent churches, where no outside force is able to tell the offender, supposedly 'reformed' that he actually cannot reclaim authority in 'his' ministry.
Would you provide the scripture reference? Not doubting you. Just want to puzzle through what you are saying. Thanks.
Quote from: apl68 on August 10, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
It's like he has been going through a second adolescence. Maybe President Trump rubbed off on him?
I still think getting chummy with the likes of President Trump is a big part of what went wrong with him (and others). Bad influences really do mess up people who ought to know better.
Quote from: nebo113 on August 25, 2020, 04:18:14 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 24, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
As an evangelical, I can only hope Junior drops into a black hole and is never publicly heard from again. The Scriptures obviously do speak of repentance leading to restoration of one's relationship with God, but they really, properly interpreted, also teach that those having fallen into this sort of sin forfeit their church offices forever, though many evangelicals do not seem to realize this, a problem especially stark in the realm of parachurch ministries and independent churches, where no outside force is able to tell the offender, supposedly 'reformed' that he actually cannot reclaim authority in 'his' ministry.
Would you provide the scripture reference? Not doubting you. Just want to puzzle through what you are saying. Thanks.
1 John 1:9. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 Timothy 3:1-7. "The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."
Quote from: writingprof on August 25, 2020, 08:46:39 AM
Quote from: nebo113 on August 25, 2020, 04:18:14 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 24, 2020, 05:55:04 PM
As an evangelical, I can only hope Junior drops into a black hole and is never publicly heard from again. The Scriptures obviously do speak of repentance leading to restoration of one's relationship with God, but they really, properly interpreted, also teach that those having fallen into this sort of sin forfeit their church offices forever, though many evangelicals do not seem to realize this, a problem especially stark in the realm of parachurch ministries and independent churches, where no outside force is able to tell the offender, supposedly 'reformed' that he actually cannot reclaim authority in 'his' ministry.
Would you provide the scripture reference? Not doubting you. Just want to puzzle through what you are saying. Thanks.
1 John 1:9. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 Timothy 3:1-7. "The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."
I think this is probably what kay had in mind. It doesn't exactly say in so many words that a person in ministry who has ever messed up can never serve in ministry again. But it does suggest that a leader in ministry who has altogether wrecked his reputation and has brought disgrace upon his ministry, his Christian community, and the name of the God he professes to serve would not be a good choice for a ministry leadership position in the future, even if he shows strong evidence of being penitent.
Quote from: apl68 on August 25, 2020, 07:49:15 AM
Quote from: apl68 on August 10, 2020, 01:53:29 PM
It's like he has been going through a second adolescence. Maybe President Trump rubbed off on him?
I still think getting chummy with the likes of President Trump is a big part of what went wrong with him (and others). Bad influences really do mess up people who ought to know better.
This has been going on for years if not decades. Jerry Junior uses the university as an ATM to fund all sorts of shady business ventures, including those with his sex partner pool boys, personal trainers, etc.
Quote from: spork on August 25, 2020, 09:09:07 AM
This has been going on for years if not decades. Jerry Junior uses the university as an ATM to fund all sorts of shady business ventures, including those with his sex partner pool boys, personal trainers, etc.
No doubt his name would have surfaced in Jeffrey Epstein's confessions had not Democrats murdered the wicked man to protect . . . oh, never mind. My heart's not in it.
Writingprof did cite the I Timothy passage I was thinking on, and there are parallel passages, as well as similar themes, in other NT epistles. Clearly, sexual scandal is a deal-breaker for continued possession of a church office, and those churches that fudge on this (as I suggested most of these are independent ones, as well as parachurch ministries, that have no one to tell them 'no') often get what they deserve. Financial scandal and badly running one's family life are more or less the same issue.
Apparently, Jerry exited stage left with $10.5 million....
As bad as that looks, it was probably much less costly in the long run to simply pay him and shut the door.
My hypothesis is that his heart was never really in it to following in his father's footsteps, that he was always was just a rich party boy, and now with a golden parachute he can go live his ideal self as said rich party boy in the Mediterranean somewhere unencumbered by the restrictive morality he was supposed to peddle.
Aside from the blatant hypocrisy between his behavior and what Liberty requires and teaches of their students/staff/faculty, what really gets my goat is while there's clear evidence he was happily participating in this love triangle, and that it was likely more his idea than hers at first, he tried to claim she cheated on him! Throws her under the bus to try and save himself!
Quote from: Diogenes on August 26, 2020, 08:51:35 AM
My hypothesis is that his heart was never really in it to following in his father's footsteps, that he was always was just a rich party boy, and now with a golden parachute he can go live his ideal self as said rich party boy in the Mediterranean somewhere unencumbered by the restrictive morality he was supposed to peddle.
Entirely possible. The ministry is supposed to be a personal calling, not a family business. Pushing somebody with no calling into the ministry is a good recipe for disaster. The junior Falwell's behavior makes it sound like he never really grew up, let alone cultivated any spiritual maturity.
My grandfather was a minister who had two sons (Dad and, eventually, his youngest brother) who followed him into the ministry, but neither was ever pressured to do so. And since they were rural bi-vocational pastors it's not like they were drawn by good salaries or golden parachutes!
You are probably giving Falwell, Sr., too much credit. His son was already probably around 40 (I do not know exactly), when dad died and he inherited the school. Falwell Sr wanted Jr to get it, and did not probably investigate exactly what Jr's character was, before bequeathing it to him. And Sr's handpicked board of trustees gave Jr the thing. Now Jr may well never have really wanted to be a Christian school pres, certainly may well never have felt that he had any sort of spiritual calling, but he obviously did want to run a very lucrative 'family business', and until very recently, he was doing exactly that, with his own handpicked trustees (indeed, at least one such trustee, having come to criticize Jr's financial improprieties a year or so ago, was forced out). Obviously it is good that the current trustees belatedly saw enough of the light to finally defenestrate him, but the golden parachute is outrageous. It may well be that, had the trustees held the line and tried to not give him anything, they would have lost more in a subsequent litigation (ultimate payoff plus attorney's fees, etc.), but it probably would have been worth the financial risk, in order to make a public statement, which would specifically have included telling tuition-paying evangelical students and parents that the school would not reward the sleaze and slime of Falwell, by using such tuition moneys to pay off said sleazy slimeball.
Quote from: apl68 on August 26, 2020, 10:40:48 AM
Quote from: Diogenes on August 26, 2020, 08:51:35 AM
My hypothesis is that his heart was never really in it to following in his father's footsteps, that he was always was just a rich party boy, and now with a golden parachute he can go live his ideal self as said rich party boy in the Mediterranean somewhere unencumbered by the restrictive morality he was supposed to peddle.
Entirely possible. The ministry is supposed to be a personal calling, not a family business. Pushing somebody with no calling into the ministry is a good recipe for disaster. The junior Falwell's behavior makes it sound like he never really grew up, let alone cultivated any spiritual maturity.
My grandfather was a minister who had two sons (Dad and, eventually, his youngest brother) who followed him into the ministry, but neither was ever pressured to do so. And since they were rural bi-vocational pastors it's not like they were drawn by good salaries or golden parachutes!
I doubt that the ministers in your family were like many of the industrial-level televangelist family ministries. Danny McBride didn't make this up out of whole cloth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Righteous_Gemstones
Well, that's also not a new problem.
Demetrius, the silversmith of Ephasus might be said to have been their ancestor, in a way...
M.
And a former student is saying that Becki slipped into his bed and gave him a blow job. Eeewwww
Quote from: nebo113 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:17 AM
And a former student is saying that Becki slipped into his bed and gave him a blow job. Eeewwww
One time at band camp . . . https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/becki-falwell-affair-liberty-university-student-band-jerry-402559 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/27/becki-falwell-affair-liberty-university-student-band-jerry-402559)
Quote from: nebo113 on August 28, 2020, 05:14:17 AM
And a former student is saying that Becki slipped into his bed and gave him a blow job. Eeewwww
Whoops! I tripped!
Honestly, it all sounds predatory.
There will be blood (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/911-called-to-allegedly-intoxicated-jerry-falwell-jrs-house-last-month-there-was-a-lot-of-blood_n_5f639edcc5b6ba9eb6eb368d).
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5: 19-21.
I suspect cocaine will be the next headline.
Quote from: spork on September 19, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
There will be blood (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/911-called-to-allegedly-intoxicated-jerry-falwell-jrs-house-last-month-there-was-a-lot-of-blood_n_5f639edcc5b6ba9eb6eb368d).
"The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5: 19-21.
I suspect cocaine will be the next headline.
When I first saw this story I almost laughed out loud at her response to the "had he been drinking heavily" question.
Here's what it makes me think about, from the Gospel according to Matthew:
"When an unclean spirit has gone out of a man, it wanders through dry places, and finds no rest. Then it decides to return to the house from which it came. It goes and takes with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that man is worse than the first."
Usually understood as Jesus warning against trying to live a godly life through one's own willpower, without seeking help from God. If somebody whose heart has never been renewed by Jesus tries to live according to biblical teachings for the sake of appearances, he may succeed for a time. But sooner or later the old evil nature will end up getting the better of him. I think that dynamic helps to explain some of the truly spectacular moral failings in priests, televangelists, etc. that we've seen over the years.
apl has a good point.. But whether or not Falwell Jr. is a sincere Christian vs a charlatan, he remains an A+ argument against nepotism in evangelicaldom.
Falwell family purge at Liberty continues:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/14/falwell-son-liberty-university-481557 (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/14/falwell-son-liberty-university-481557)
Liberty sues Jerry: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-lawsuit.html
Quote from: Langue_doc on April 16, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
Liberty sues Jerry: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-lawsuit.html
Don't be surprised if a connection to Matt Gaetz through Roger Stone eventually comes to light.
Quote from: spork on April 16, 2021, 11:31:42 AM
Quote from: Langue_doc on April 16, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
Liberty sues Jerry: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/16/us/jerry-falwell-jr-liberty-university-lawsuit.html
Don't be surprised if a connection to Matt Gaetz through Roger Stone eventually comes to light.
You win the internetz!!!!
Quote from: pgher on August 08, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
The point is to punish hypocrites. You can't build a career on purity and yourself be impure. He has never advocated for grace and forgiveness for others.
Maybe the wiser thing is to built a career on not having morals. Then you can't be a hypocrite. People like Cardi B and Beyonce Knowles, who sell pornography to your kids.
So I think, for perspective, it counts who is doing the calling out. Cardi B and her smut were featured in the Super Bowl halftime thing. Are the parents who watched snickering about Jerry? At the very least, they might refrain from comment then.
Quote from: mahagonny on April 17, 2021, 05:51:02 AM
Quote from: pgher on August 08, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
The point is to punish hypocrites. You can't build a career on purity and yourself be impure. He has never advocated for grace and forgiveness for others.
Maybe the wiser thing is to built a career on not having morals. Then you can't be a hypocrite. People like Cardi B and Beyonce Knowles, who sell pornography to your kids.
So I think, for perspective, it counts who is doing the calling out. Cardi B and her smut were featured in the Super Bowl halftime thing. Are the parents who watched snickering about Jerry? At the very least, they might refrain from comment then.
LOL
That degree of deflection and whattaboutism will get you a slot on Fox News.
Quote from: Bbmaj7b5 on April 17, 2021, 07:01:59 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 17, 2021, 05:51:02 AM
Quote from: pgher on August 08, 2020, 01:52:33 PM
The point is to punish hypocrites. You can't build a career on purity and yourself be impure. He has never advocated for grace and forgiveness for others.
Maybe the wiser thing is to built a career on not having morals. Then you can't be a hypocrite. People like Cardi B and Beyonce Knowles, who sell pornography to your kids.
So I think, for perspective, it counts who is doing the calling out. Cardi B and her smut were featured in the Super Bowl halftime thing. Are the parents who watched snickering about Jerry? At the very least, they might refrain from comment then.
LOL
That degree of deflection and whattaboutism will get you a slot on Fox News.
Ruined my weekend with that.