I will start by saying that Blocky is mostly a good little guy and a joy to have around, but, some days, I am very much reminded that he's still a little guy.
We're one week out from the end of school for Blocky. A teacher agreed that the kids in Blocky's group could have a party in class if the kids organized. Blocky came home and informed us that we had to make brownies.
Mr. Mer and I looked at each other and then back at Blocky. The resulting conversation went something like:
Parent: "You signed up to bring brownies?"
Blocky: "Yes, I did. They're due Thursday."
Parent: "Do you know what brownies are?"
Blocky: "Of course, I know what brownies are!"
Parent: "We're talking the chocolatey bar things?"
Blocky: "Yes, those are brownies."
Parent: "And you chose to do this, knowing what brownies are?"
Blocky: "They're not really expensive, are they?"
Parent: "No, we can make brownies if that's what you really want. Did we mention they are chocolate?"
Blocky: "Yep."
Parent: "You hate chocolate."
Blocky: "Yep."
Parent: "Why did you volunteer to bring a treat to a party that you won't eat?"
Blocky <shrugs> "I mentioned they were due Thursday, right?"
Le sigh.
Share your kid stories here because you're definitely not alone.
Wow, he told you a week out? That's impressive. Mine generally would drop a bomb like that the day before when they were younger.
Youngest needs new black pants for his upcoming school concerts. He has needed these pants since the last concert in March. Thus far, he has evaded, forgotten, and resisted all shopping attempts. This must happen today, however, as the first concert is this Thursday night and I am off to a conference Thursday morning. Mind you, this comes on the heels of having had to shop for 1) the prom dress, 2) the graduation dress, 3) the sports banquet dress, and 4) shoes for graduating child. I have conveniently forgotten that neither the prom shoes nor the banquet shoes will go with the white graduation dress because I would rather hit my knee several times with a big hammer than go back to Macy's.
Order ballet-slipper-like shoes from Amazon?
M.
Quote from: Tenured_Feminist on May 26, 2019, 07:39:36 AM
Wow, he told you a week out? That's impressive. Mine generally would drop a bomb like that the day before when they were younger.
Youngest needs new black pants for his upcoming school concerts. He has needed these pants since the last concert in March. Thus far, he has evaded, forgotten, and resisted all shopping attempts. This must happen today, however, as the first concert is this Thursday night and I am off to a conference Thursday morning. Mind you, this comes on the heels of having had to shop for 1) the prom dress, 2) the graduation dress, 3) the sports banquet dress, and 4) shoes for graduating child. I have conveniently forgotten that neither the prom shoes nor the banquet shoes will go with the white graduation dress because I would rather hit my knee several times with a big hammer than go back to Macy's.
When I was in kindergarten, I once actually told my mother--when she came home from an 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. shift as a nurse at the local hospital--that she "needed" to make a cake for me for that morning's classroom party and that I'd "promised" everyone that my mother would bring a wonderful cake.
Had I informed her earlier, you ask? Why, no. Of course not. I was five, and my mother could work miracles if I only asked, right?
Well, after I learned a few new words from her, she drove me and my brothers to school with the promise that she would indeed make a cake, frost it, and bring it. And she did! Still in her nurse's uniform with the little cap pinned to her hair, she brought to my classroom, on time,
my favorite cake--three layers of angel food cake with vanilla and (fresh) coconut frosting.
Mom still reminds me of that cake and tells me I continue to owe her for it. I have to admit, 45 years later, yes, I most definitely do. <grin>
What a heartwarming story, paultuttle.
Yes it is!
I have returned from a week away scoring exams, and Nephew (now age 10, how did that happen?) was in the care of my father as he is every time I do this. Things went well except that Nephew forgot to bring in a really vital slip of paper that I had signed and put in his backpack right before I left. Last week. My father didn't think to check Nephew's homework folder, so... Anyways, if I have to sneak into fifth grade graduation, that's why.
I can just hear you at the gate...
"Yes, he's my son, yes, I really do want to claim him, yes, if you ask him he'll tell you so, too."
Such good news that he's moving along and doing well.
And so good to hear from you, too!
M.
My sister had a super high power, 90 hour/week job. The school teachers devised a plan that every week (twice a week?) a parent mother would bake a cake in the shape of a state to teach the students about the US states. When my sister heard this, her head exploded, but, when confronted, the teacher reassured her that they had assigned her Nebraska, so that she could just pick the cake up from the store. (And we wonder why our mothers drink.)
I'll bet the corn-husker fans would love to find a Nebraska-shaped cake pan. Thinking Wyoming or Colorado would be the simplest a piece of cake to make...
Quote from: brixton on June 11, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
My sister had a super high power, 90 hour/week job. The school teachers devised a plan that every week (twice a week?) a parent mother would bake a cake in the shape of a state to teach the students about the US states. When my sister heard this, her head exploded, but, when confronted, the teacher reassured her that they had assigned her Nebraska, so that she could just pick the cake up from the store. (And we wonder why our mothers drink.)
Pretty sure my local grocery doesn't sell a Nebraska-shaped cake. But 5 min with a knife and I could carve it to be close enough.
If someone assigned me Hawaii, I think I'd be tempted to just put some pineapple on top of a normal rectangular sheet cake and say it's a Hawaiian cake. You know, the same way you make a "Hawaiian" pizza/burger/whatever.
Nephew wants to wear my tam, which is actually my father's tam (he gave me his regalia when he retired, although I do need a different hood as we don't have degrees in the same subject) to fifth grade graduation. It's too big for him and the cafeteria will be stiflingly hot, but I'm kinda tempted to give in.
I might give in, and plan to have it dry cleaned after :D.
I'm drinking, for sure. I have two adult stepchildren moving back in. One has decided that dorm life is no fun, and he lives somewhat close enough to campus to commute (about 90 miles - we'll see how long that lasts). The other has graduated with her MA, and is trying to decide what to do next. She was planning to go on for a PhD but now she's not sure. Her MA is somewhat questionable in value; psychology, she doesn't really want to pursue research now, not really sure WHAT she wants to do (she is incredibly vague about her goals, honestly so we're encouraging her to sort that out). Must not get involved...must not get involved...
Quote from: the_geneticist on June 12, 2019, 02:10:59 PM
Quote from: brixton on June 11, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
My sister had a super high power, 90 hour/week job. The school teachers devised a plan that every week (twice a week?) a parent mother would bake a cake in the shape of a state to teach the students about the US states. When my sister heard this, her head exploded, but, when confronted, the teacher reassured her that they had assigned her Nebraska, so that she could just pick the cake up from the store. (And we wonder why our mothers drink.)
Pretty sure my local grocery doesn't sell a Nebraska-shaped cake. But 5 min with a knife and I could carve it to be close enough.
If someone assigned me Hawaii, I think I'd be tempted to just put some pineapple on top of a normal rectangular sheet cake and say it's a Hawaiian cake. You know, the same way you make a "Hawaiian" pizza/burger/whatever.
If I got Hawaii, I'd throw random chunks of cake on a bunch of plates and strew them across the table. I could not cope with that...
Quote from: magnemite on June 11, 2019, 01:00:24 PM
I'll bet the corn-husker fans would love to find a Nebraska-shaped cake pan. Thinking Wyoming or Colorado would be the simplest a piece of cake to make...
For CO I'd insist that there is topographical variation, so it would be a vertical, rather than horizontal, challenge.
Ohh..would you do that with icing, or little plastic build for the mountains?
The blue frosting is perfect for water....
M.
See, this is one advantage to teenagers. Youngest realized last night at 10 PM that he had promised to bring in brownies today for his chem class. I guffawed, pointed to the kitchen, and said, "have at it, laddie!"
Quote from: Tenured_Feminist on June 13, 2019, 01:18:03 PM
See, this is one advantage to teenagers. Youngest realized last night at 10 PM that he had promised to bring in brownies today for his chem class. I guffawed, pointed to the kitchen, and said, "have at it, laddie!"
Exactly. And don't forget to put everything away and do the dishes when you're done! Wonderful when such an opportunity arises.
Agreed on teens in the kitchen.
Bioette's chorus shoes.... it was a saga. Chorus requires fancy gowns and gloves. All for a hefty rental fee. And dress shoes. Her old ones didn't fit. Her heels are tiny and she walks out of flats. So we found her a pair of closed toe shoes last fall that met all criteria (low heel, stayed on, closed toe, black) and I plunked down $40 for the dang things knowing she would wear them 2x.
For the spring adjudication, one went missing. Her room is a disaster. (ADD, depression, a mom who has been struggling with depression, and deep hoarding/sentimental tendencies). It was bad despite progress she has made on sorting and purging. I went in a hunted, stacking stuff into piles for her to sort later. I didn't read notebooks I found, for example just stacked them up. She was in tears at me invading her privacy. Two evenings of my life spent trying to tame the mess and then find the damn shoe. Only for her to mention she remembered seeing it downstairs by the work bench near her riding boots.
I sad a bad language word or two in my head. Yes, the shoe was there. I gave it to her.
A week later, she needed it for her concert. She texted me when I was still at work about not knowing where it was. Her dad "didn't want to get involved." I said more bad language words to myself. When I got home, I went hunting. No shoes. She was upset again, in tears again because I'm invading her privacy, she has to leave soon, etc. Drama. I remembered the adjudication. "where is your bag from that day?" Shoulder shrugs. I went hunting to her other closet--- the dining room where she thinks all things from school should be placed for some strange sacrifice beneath the dining room table or something. Hooray, I found the shoes.
I've also raised my blood pressure, acquired more grey hair, and been accused of "invading her privacy" too often.
Next year, I'm getting a can of spray paint and applying paint to her bare feet. Spray on shoes can't get lost.
Oh, bioteacher, that sounds so stressful — and so typical.
I think I would have let her pay the penalty (whatever it was) of turning up with the wrong shoes, if she griped at my looking for them. Because, sheesh!
Quote from: bioteacher on June 13, 2019, 07:29:24 PM
Next year, I'm getting a can of spray paint and applying paint to her bare feet. Spray on shoes can't get lost.
One good solution.
A possible second solution that has worked on Blocky is creating a go-bag for every single frickin' activity that includes all the equipment for that activity. Yes, that means having duplicates of some fairly cheap stuff (e.g., a separate container of sunscreen lives in the swim bag, the archery bag, and the Nerf gun bag and each of those bags has a water bottle hanging off the side), but having each bag live in its designated spot means we're ready in under 5 minutes.
That was particularly handy when Blocky announced at 0755 one morning prior to a 0800 departure that today was the end-of-year swim party and did someone sign his permission slip so he could go. Yes, we got a week's notice on those doggone brownies and 5 minutes notice on the swim trip.
Years ago, some forumite made fun of people for keeping all those conference, give-away bags. Well, Blocky has now been the beneficiary of about six of those bags. I use another eight for my various activities and Mr. Mer has four for his collection of interests. At times, the heavy sigh has been that I didn't attend a couple of those conferences more; the HLC in particular gave great bags.
Quote from: ab_grp on June 13, 2019, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: Tenured_Feminist on June 13, 2019, 01:18:03 PM
See, this is one advantage to teenagers. Youngest realized last night at 10 PM that he had promised to bring in brownies today for his chem class. I guffawed, pointed to the kitchen, and said, "have at it, laddie!"
Exactly. And don't forget to put everything away and do the dishes when you're done! Wonderful when such an opportunity arises.
My rule is if you are baking and I get to partake of the goodies, I will help you clean up.
If I am not (because you are taking it to school), you are on your own.
Quote from: bopper on June 14, 2019, 08:17:45 AM
My rule is if you are baking and I get to partake of the goodies, I will help you clean up.
If I am not (because you are taking it to school), you are on your own.
I like this rule!
Bioette is in the finicky place of wanting her space respected yet also needing some help with it. Add in a cocktail of hormones, exhaustion, some mental health stuff, and you get a lovely evening of mother/daughter bonding. :-)
I am wondering what the general opinion here is wrt the level of privacy, such as it is, parents provide their adolescents at home nowadays, esp given online access gizmos, etc? This teacher finds this an interesting question...
That's a good question, and I'm following it with interest. Mine were all on the cusp of the online revolution, so while I worried about it, I didn't have to deal with it quite so much. The youngest is now 19, so we don't have much control over it, but I do remember having to have a "no electronics in rooms" rule because otherwise they couldn't resist them at night.
Trust is earned.
With Bioette, who is 15, my husband regularly checks her contacts list and deletes any we can't identify. We don't read her texts or emails but know the password to all of her accounts, phone, etc. We've set her up with Lastpass to manage them. She asks us before installing new apps, and is very cautious about giving out personal info. Just tonight, she asked about a new app called amino and it wanted her date of birth off the bat. She came to me and asked if it was okay. I explained the legal reasons for that request, showed her how to make sure it didn't have access to her camera, microphone, or location, and set up Lastpass on the desktop to record the username and password she chose.
We are careful to give her space, but when she has been upset (fragile friend texting things that sounded suicidal) I jumped on her phone (with her right there, crying) identified myself, and intervened as a parent who cared. We've made it clear that if we are worried about her and cannot get answers from her, we will do whatever it takes to find those answers. IE: sudden mood swings, failing grades, skipping school, but she insists all is well? At that point, privacy is gone because we have an obligation to protect her, even from herself. If the same happen and she told us she needed to see her therapist sooner, that she was feeling more depressed, but wasn't wiling to say why? Privacy respected, appointment made, hugs given. She's allowed to have secrets. We strongly caution against keeping secrets that can lead to harm of herself or others.
It used to be no tablets/phones in the bedrooms at all. As they got older, we relaxed that but made clear what the expectations were for getting enough sleep and not going to websites that were age inappropriate. We were always free to look over their shoulder and make sure they toed the line. Failure to do so brought about swift device lockdowns.
We've been open with the kids about having to come up with rules and policies for something that didn't exist when we were growing up. We flat out said we knew we'd get it wrong, being too lax sometimes and too strict other times. We have taken the approach of "here is why we are doing this, talk to us if you disagree." Add in a hefty dose of "Here are things to be careful about online and here is why it's important to do so." Overall, I'm happy with how they are navigating it.
Bioette has her phone pretty much in reach at all times. Yet it's not just for texting. She reminds herself to eat with a snack reminder. She listens to music. She uses a relaxation app at bedtime to help her go to sleep. Her phone may be on the bed beside her, but she's using it to look up reference pictures for her latest sketch. Is she too attached? Probably. But I can't argue with how she's using it.
That's the short answer.
Wellkid (15) has a lot of electronic freedom and privacy--far too much for some parents' comfort, I'm sure. But he's competent and responsible and happy and he understands that this freedom is tightly tied to his ongoing good and safe behavior.
He's getting his annual digital detox starting soon, where he'll trade all electricity for wilderness for a few weeks. That's good for both his body and his heart.
Mine have been pretty much free to manage their digital and electronic lives as long as use of devices is not having visible negative effects. Youngest occasionally needs reminders that sleep is important and if he chooses not to get enough sleep, he doesn't get to make everyone around him miserable because of it.
We have a communal desktop in common space. That helps to keep tabs on serious gaming.
How many of you would periodically check the kid's online devices to, ahem, well see what they're doing online?
What about random checks of bedrooms, etc.?
Random checks? How much free time do you think I have? How dumb do you think my kid is to not be able to get around random checks were I to implement them?
Either the trust is going to work or we have bigger problems than whatever nefarious online things Blocky might be doing because:
1) No one has the time and energy to watch him every single second of every single day.
2) The goal is for Blocky to become a competent adult. Watching Blocky every single second of every single day to prevent all possible toes even approaching a line means Blocky doesn't get some valuable learning experiences on why the rule line was placed well back from any actual danger.
3) Prevents some of the valuable experiences of crossing a rule line and finding out the actual consequences of what happens when no one is looking. We've been putting a lot of effort into conscience and why rules exist. Ending up on a couple sites with pictures Blocky really, really didn't want to see helps Blocky believe more in the bumpers easily in place for safer browsing.
4) Keeping an absurdly tight rein on electronics means putting Blocky at a disadvantage in an increasingly electronic world. I had a childhood that was as electronic as possible at the time for the resources we had as well as having access to a bazillion books that I snuck reading over sleep and other activities. For Blocky to have the updated version (ooh, programming can be fun; hey, look how hard I can push this computer!) means he will have that advantage as well.
We use parental control settings on the family laptop/xbox/teen's laptop to set time limits per day and to block inappropriate sites (however well those algorithms work). Our kids have a tough time with managing their own limits but are totally okay with the computer shutting off on them when the time's up, so we take advantage of that. Oldest-at-home (16) asks for extra time frequently to finish homework or listen to music, and we almost always give it to her. We can see what websites they've been looking at, but rarely bother. We allow flip phones in middle school (grades 7-8 here), although current middle-schooler just finished 7th grade and tends towards extreme disrespect and abusive language directed at me, so he's lost the privilege of getting a phone at all until high school (this might be revisited at Christmas). The same middle-schooler does have an iPod touch which is pretty locked down with parental controls. He needs permission to download apps or purchase anything and has time limits on most apps. He has constant access to music and audiobook apps.
With oldest (now moved out) and current oldest-at-home, phones sleep in the living room and have a nightly bedtime. That bedtime depends on maintaining acceptable grades and behavior, so adjusts periodically. Current oldest-at-home still only has a flip phone because she wasn't getting her schoolwork done, but we will probably get her a smartphone soon. If she had bothered pushing for it earlier, we might have, but she's not very interested. She frequently has to be reminded to bring her phone down at bedtime not because she's using it but because it's been in the bottom of her backpack all day and she hasn't bothered to get it out.
We are stricter than most parents but we try to be fair and to respond to our own kids' personalities, needs, and limitations. Middle-schooler already has a challenging time managing his anger, and wants to spend his much of his time online playing violent videogames, after which he's unpleasant. We talk to him about this and limit what games he can play, but the only thing that really works is limiting the amount of time he has access. I appreciate Polly's interest in fostering her son's curiosity about computers etc. but that's not something this kid will ever do. Cannibalizing the riding toys he's outgrowing and improving them or making elaborate superhero costumes, on the other hand....there he really is creative and interested and has come up with some amazing ideas that he's learning how to implement.
Quote from: Cheerful on May 29, 2019, 04:30:02 PM
What a heartwarming story, paultuttle.
Thanks! To clarify, Mom doesn't drink, but if she did, I'm sure having four sons within a period of 4.5 years would have made her . . . imbibe
considerably.
It's weird reading about all the "little" kids as preteens and teens. I mean, how is Blocky in school, how is Nephew finishing elementary school, and when did Bioette become a teenager?
Then I remember that the Mouselet is starting college in September, and I go for the scotch...
Quote from: the_geneticist on June 12, 2019, 02:10:59 PM
Quote from: brixton on June 11, 2019, 12:54:20 PM
My sister had a super high power, 90 hour/week job. The school teachers devised a plan that every week (twice a week?) a parent mother would bake a cake in the shape of a state to teach the students about the US states. When my sister heard this, her head exploded, but, when confronted, the teacher reassured her that they had assigned her Nebraska, so that she could just pick the cake up from the store. (And we wonder why our mothers drink.)
Pretty sure my local grocery doesn't sell a Nebraska-shaped cake. But 5 min with a knife and I could carve it to be close enough.
If someone assigned me Hawaii, I think I'd be tempted to just put some pineapple on top of a normal rectangular sheet cake and say it's a Hawaiian cake. You know, the same way you make a "Hawaiian" pizza/burger/whatever.
Ice it with blue icing (the ocean) and put pineapple chunks in the middle in an approximate Hawaii shape.
With regard to electronics: Conjutot (well, nearly 6 now, so not quite a tot) has become fascinated with his Kindle Kids Fire. We got him one about four years ago, and it died recently. Now, their guarantee is strong; No matter how he says it died, they replace it free in the first two years. It was no longer under that warranty, but they gave me 20% off on a new model (with more memory). So for about the same price as the old one we got a bigger one, and got another year of free access to kid-friendly apps, books, etc. We let him have a fair amount of time on it, and he's downloaded a ton of apps that he likes, and gets to watch videos (all carefully curated to be age-appropriate).
On the other hand, he's now started agitating for Minecraft (eight bucks a month, instead of the $3/month that we paid for the Kid's Fire FreeTime program that gets him all the apps and books and stuff). There is a one-month free trial, but neither his mother nor I know how to help him with it, and mostly we don't have time to learn how to do it ourselves. He can't read the documentation yet, either.
Quote from: Conjugate on June 28, 2019, 08:25:52 AM
On the other hand, he's now started agitating for Minecraft (eight bucks a month, instead of the $3/month that we paid for the Kid's Fire FreeTime program that gets him all the apps and books and stuff). There is a one-month free trial, but neither his mother nor I know how to help him with it, and mostly we don't have time to learn how to do it ourselves. He can't read the documentation yet, either.
We bought an Xbox One years ago when Blocky started asking for Minecraft and he might have been sixish. One need not be able to read if one has access to another device that can view YouTube with all the other kids playing Minecraft. I will mention that Blocky didn't care for the tablet version of Minecraft, but that could be the difference between a 7 in screen and a 48 in screen.
Mr. Mer really took a liking to Minecraft and now the two of them build worlds together. Blocky has also been given permission to build with people he knows from school and that's been a good interaction as well.
Quote from: mouseman on June 27, 2019, 10:44:19 AM
It's weird reading about all the "little" kids as preteens and teens. I mean, how is Blocky in school, how is Nephew finishing elementary school, and when did Bioette become a teenager?
Then I remember that the Mouselet is starting college in September, and I go for the scotch...
Exactly! I look in the mirror and see an older face and yet I feel no older on the inside. Why can't we all be the ages we think we are/should be? How did this happen? I don't remember giving the kiddos permission to grow up!
Nephew also started playing Minecraft at age 6, and his literacy improved tremendously when I told him that he'd have to spell the words he wanted me to read for him if he couldn't figure them out himself. His early literate vocabulary was a bit heavy on Minecraft elements, but it did work... The next year he got interested in programming and played with Learn to Mod, which teaches kids how to program by having them build Minecraft mods and test them. Now he still plays online on the PS4 with kids from school and they build really interesting things together. As games go, it's not the worst thing one could want to play. And there are many, many, many tutorial videos to help him.
(Nephew's reward for finishing elementary school without any Major Incidents happening was a 4000-piece Lego Creator Expert set, and right now the entire living room is covered in pieces of Lego roller coaster. I'm glad he's happy and that he's building this thing, but I kinda miss being able to walk downstairs without stepping on Lego.)
In many ways, Minecraft is Lego on the computer. One is easier on the feet, however. :-) My daughter is really into minecraft and it has given her a ton of enjoyment as she builds worlds.
Perhaps we'll give Minecraft a shot; we've got the 30-day free trial. We've also been told to consider something called "Roblox," which seems good.
Right now, he likes Pango (a French set of apps, free via FreeTime) and Sago Minis (similar). But we're going on a long drive soon, and he's bouncing off the walls as though he's on a massive sugar high, even though it's almost past bedtime. Maybe he'll sleep in the car tomorrow?
Quote from: Conjugate on June 29, 2019, 06:50:37 PM
Perhaps we'll give Minecraft a shot; we've got the 30-day free trial. We've also been told to consider something called "Roblox," which seems good.
Blocky has also loved Roblox and plays that with his friends on the Xbox as well.
Nephew was unable to sleep in the car until last year. Now he insists that he can't sleep in the car, but then I'll say "Hey, bud, do you need to stop to use the bathroom?" when we're getting near a rest area and he won't answer and I'll look in the rear view mirror to see him slumped over in his seat. We also are going on a long drive on Tuesday so I just let him get the new Mario Maker game so that he can have something to do in the car other than ask me if we're there yet or complain that he's already read all the books we packed. Fun fact: if you ask Google Maps that, you will get a response with estimated time to destination!
(I vastly prefer Minecraft to Roblox for games I have to endure watching, but Nephew and his cousin have both enjoyed Roblox at times.)
Just coming here to say that waking up to a string of 3 AM, hysterical texts (that, naturally, do not provide any detail about the trauma that has occurred) from my 23yo is one of the many reasons why I drink. Of course, by the time I was up, she was sleeping and did not respond to contact, so I fretted and ready the papers local to her area, checked social media, prepared to call everyone who knows her, etc. And it turns out to be not really a big deal (I mean no one was physically injured, killed, jailed).
Quote from: ab_grp on June 30, 2019, 04:04:08 PM
Just coming here to say that waking up to a string of 3 AM, hysterical texts (that, naturally, do not provide any detail about the trauma that has occurred) from my 23yo is one of the many reasons why I drink.
Glad to hear it all worked out, aside from promoting the development of high blood pressure and grey hair.
Nephew isn't sleeping in the car, Citrine, he's practicing focused meditation. There is a difference!
Both kids are home this week on break. It is SO GOOD to hear them laughing and spending time together before Bioson returns to technical school next week. I treasure these times to fortify me for all of the Drama that comes with a teenage female in the house. Her brother is so laid back it's almost caused for worry of a different sort, but we had a lot less drama with him at this stage.
The Minecraft posts reminded me of the Mouselet's Minecraft years, and how the majority of the relationship between her and her first boyfriend (6th grade...) was building stuff together in Minecraft, each from their own bedroom. The built a house together, and he gave her a new suit of armor (diamond), and red wool in the shape of a heart.
Ahhh, middle school romance in the 21st century...
Quote from: ab_grp on June 30, 2019, 04:04:08 PM
Just coming here to say that waking up to a string of 3 AM, hysterical texts (that, naturally, do not provide any detail about the trauma that has occurred) from my 23yo is one of the many reasons why I drink. Of course, by the time I was up, she was sleeping and did not respond to contact, so I fretted and ready the papers local to her area, checked social media, prepared to call everyone who knows her, etc. And it turns out to be not really a big deal (I mean no one was physically injured, killed, jailed).
Older kids are really difficult. Mine made a really, really big mistake at her work this week, so a lot of angst (on her part, not mine; I provided long-distance support) was spent in figuring out how to respond and actively take blame and come up with a plan for it not to happen again. She handled it well, and no one died, but I was struck by the difficulty of it all. We've all been there, and there just isn't much you can do in those situations, but it hurts to have to witness and BE able to do nothing. I think that's the hardest part of parenting at any age - witnessing that loss (of a job, a spouse, etc) and doing...nothing but providing support. itlet will be ok, and she handled it well, but they are all in flux right now. The two that are moving home are just...afloat.
One is planning to (really) go out on the road with her musician boyfriend, and actually, I think that will be good for her. She's been much more sheltered than the rest of them, and she could use some life.
I have to get work done this afternoon, so the very short list of starting the K-12 school year annoyances goes:
* Brand-new school building wasn't quite done when the K-12 school year started. The choice was made to simply have every warm body who could be press-ganged into it (including the superintendent who was photographed by the local newspaper) move furniture and supplies during the two days leading up to the first day of school. Thus, elementary school teachers started teaching in classrooms that had been empty of everything with less than a day to prepare. Mr. Mer has been one of the parents helping sort out the elementary school library that is temporarily housed in a portable with expectation to move that library into the completed, permanent room sometime around Spring Break.
* A big benefit to being in an affluent community is the ability to go online in the summer, fill out a form that says "please buy all the class-appropriate school supplies for <student>; here's electronic payment", and have the box of school supplies be sitting at my child's desk on the first day of school. Because of the brand-new school building, the student boxes were held at the shipping center until well after the first day of class. Thus, the teachers were in mostly unorganized classrooms with a significant fraction of students having no supplies for the first several days of school.
* Blocky's box of supplies is very nice, probably nicer than what he would have gotten had I been in charge of ensuring he had supplies. That box includes a fancy zippered 3-ring binder system of which I am now envious (https://www.fivestardirect.us/fivestar/browse/product/Zipper+Binder+with+Expansion+Panel+and+Filler+Paper+Bundle/29052BDL). Mr. Mer casually mentioned on about Thursday that I probably want to help Blocky make the best use of his organizing system.
Blocky and I spent more than an hour today sorting through Blocky's stuff to get him on the path to more likely success through not losing crap in a big wad at the bottom of a backpack. I was astounded to learn that, despite having a big ol' binder system last year as part of learning how to be a good enough student, Blocky did not know he could:
- put the three-hole punched notebooks into the 3-ring binder part instead of squashing them into the backpack separately. I was proud of how Blocky's face lit up on realizing he could put his three-hole punched printed week-at-a-glance planner in a place where it would stop being so beaten up. So, yes, someone made them get planners and Blocky is using his, but the rest of the organizing is apparently more hit and miss.
- use a systematic approach to each folder like completed papers on the left, todo papers on the right, and three-hole-punched running reports in the binder-like middle so they are the first thing one sees upon opening the folder.
- put the folders and non-three-hole-punched notebooks in the expanding pocket designed to hold the folders and loose notebooks in the order he is likely to use them. The idea that each folder/notebook could have its own place to live was mind blowing for a guy who had apparently just been stuffing those in the backpack separately as well. In probably concrete evidence of a parenting failure, I had to push hard to get Blocky to try reorienting the folders/notebooks so they would slide easily into the expanding pocket and not stick out to prevent zipping. Apparently, the existence of two different length edges for essentially rectangular objects did not enter into the reasoning; Blocky had tried once to get the folders in the pockets, failed because they stuck out, and then didn't try the other orientation.
- repackage all the things he was given and restock items that were duplicates now that his school supply box came in. For example, apparently, Blocky was just going to cart around the wrapped sticky note block as a big block that doesn't fit into any of the pockets until I suggested splitting the block by color, putting the first color in a readily accessible pocket and putting the other colors in a less accessible spot for later. Blocky had 3 identical pairs of scissors and only most of a set of colored pencils.
- consolidate the sticky notes for passwords, locker combinations, etc. into one place where he could then consult if necessary instead of having them randomly attached to whatever notebook/folder/supply bag Blocky had handy when someone handed him the sticky. The idea of making a special place in, say, his planner seemed very new to Blocky, but he was receptive to the idea.
*During organization, we came up with a letter home that was already past due since we were supposed to have met with a teacher last week to touch base for the year. We also came up with three homework assignments that were due on Monday. Blocky has a homework folder, but they weren't in that. Blocky has those assignments written in the planner, but apparently he doesn't consult that, either. Have I mentioned yet that tomorrow is Day 8 of the new school year?
* Blocky, Mr. Mer, and I then spent another hour trying to figure out how to complete an assignment that was sent as homework. This is sixth grade in a district where most high school graduates will not only go to college, but will be going to schools better than the state flagship. Thus, it's time to start planning for college. The assignment was to find the school pennant of the college one wishes to attend. Blocky chose MIT, used pencil to properly spell Massachusetts, and then started coloring black from the corners before realizing he had a looming problem with black lettering on black background (https://www.collegeflagsandbanners.com/mit_pennant_51722_prd1.html?gdffi=69d01f37bb564436aca69d805986c2df&gdfms=39B74B5E8D55481CB035DFE24C8A3420&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjOnSoOue5AIVeh-tBh2ojwRZEAQYASABEgK1FvD_BwE). After much trying of various solutions, eventually we decided to duplicate the teacher's original template (I, too, can draw an isosceles triangle in Powerpoint and label it "College Pennant Template") and have Blocky be more strategic about his choices since MIT has a long history of pennants that includes just the letters MIT on a white background.
* Blocky has summarized today's lessons learned as:
- Always try it on scratch paper first.
- Ask for help organizing because the big clump at the bottom of the backpack is below suboptimal.
- Start early because people are going to get cranky and frustrated as each new "oh, yeah" comes to light.
* I'm just saying now if someone announces in the next month that science fair is mandatory for this grade, then I'm leading the concerned parents committee to get that requirement changed and I'm not above running for school board to do it.
Polly, the bad news is that grade 6 was the absolute worst grade for both my kids. The standards were unreasonable, the demands epic in scale, and the bruises deep. We had one team of teachers that required students to keep EVERY graded assignment for an entire 6 weeks, compile it at the end of that 6 weeks, generate a table of comments and other nonsense I have since blocked out. The purpose? So they could "reflect" on what they had done.
Except no one told the parents. No one considered that a kid with an IEP for organization was being "helped" at home by parents who went though his backpack and binders every night and promptly recycled everything that had been graded and returned. We were over 12 weeks into the year before someone informed us about this BS policy. What 6th grade is going to reflect on homework worksheets photocopied and disturbed ad nauseam? What high schooler would, for that matter? Reasonable people see the grade was recorded and get rid of the excess paperwork so the backpack weighed less than a metric ton.
The good news is that every year before and after grade 6 was So Much Better. So just get though this one and you'll be smooth sailing once more*
*Based on my very scientific sample size of two. :-)
Thanks for the tip, Bioteacher. I'm a filer, not a recycler, but it wouldn't have occurred to me that every single piece of paper would need to be kept for future reference, especially those really torn math sheets that look a lot like Blocky needs a lesson in how to either tear better from the workbook or use scissors. My method as a student was to only keep a quarter to half inch of current enough paper for each subject and put the rest in the filing cabinet where it still takes up space decades later, but I've never looked at it again.
The college aged child has moved home, and apparently he is now a vampire. He was up and cooking something at 3am which woke the dogs, which woke us. This will take some adjustment, I think.
Nephew is about to start sixth grade (orientation on Tuesday; school year starts the day after Labor Day) and I am glad to hear these words of wisdom. Right now a lot of things about how he manages his executive function issues at school are on hold while we figure out what he's going to need to make middle school work, and I think the lack of knowledge is what's causing both of us the most anxiety. (I will go be That Parent if I have to, but I don't want to be That Parent unless I absolutely have to be. I only had to do it once in elementary school.)
The only thing that ever saved my middle schooler from horrid-pile-at-bottom-of-backpack hell was graduating to the high school where he uses his (school-issued, so everyone has one) chromebook for nearly everything.
We love that machine. We really do.
Quote from: wellfleet on August 25, 2019, 06:46:36 PM
The only thing that ever saved my middle schooler from horrid-pile-at-bottom-of-backpack hell was graduating to the high school where he uses his (school-issued, so everyone has one) chromebook for nearly everything.
We love that machine. We really do.
The school-issued Chrome book has to stay at school. Thus, we still work on a paper-based system, despite explicit instruction on Google docs and the internet.
Thursday morning, we will be loading our vehicle, and driving the Mouselet to her LAC in the Northeast. We will be driving via Toronto, where the Catwoman's cousin, whose son is also starting college, lives. We will arrive in time to explore the area a bit, and she will move in a day earlier than the rest of the freshmen, because the recipients of her scholarship can move in a day early, and she will be having dinner with the other recipients and their faculty mentor.
There will be a "parental orientation", the point of which is, very obviously, to tear the more helicopter of the parents away from the kids while they have their own orientation, and then then we drive home, while the Mouselet starts the more personalized part of her colleges freshman orientation. They have a bunch of trips with different themes, and the Mouselet chose to do the one which involved hiking and trail maintenance. So we also have needed to buy a lot of hiking gear (she also wants to start hiking a lot), including shoes which did not fit and which will require a special trip to REI to exchange.
The Mouselet has been slowly (very slowly) packing, but has also been spending a large amount of her time in farewell parties and farewell tours of Chicagoland. I don't think that she has fully internalized that she will likely never be living in this house, in her own room, again - we're moving before the next break during which she will be "coming home" (we're spending TG in CA with my parents, and she's flying directly there). She is supposed to be packing up the stuff she's not taking to college as well, so that we can either store it or put it in the room that will be hers when she is home, but will otherwise be a guest room.
I was making plans for later this month, when it struck me that I do not have to take the Mouselet or the Mouselet's plans into consideration. It was a very weird feeling, and, to be honest, it was not entirely a pleasant feeling. I'm really not ready for this
On the up side, last night, the two of use (the Mouselet and I) spent a few hours just chatting about this and that, just because she wanted to talk to me. She has also become a lot more affectionate and physical with us. She is also, despite being scared and sad about leaving, extremely excited about starting college, and can't wait to start.
Oh, just to add to the fun, at her last local dentist appointment, she was told that her wisdom teeth need to come out, and as soon as feasible. So she had all four removed last Thursday. She still attended some goodbye parties, albeit low-key ones, since almost everybody is gone. Luckily she heals really fast and most of the swelling has subsided (it's only been 3 days), and she can even chew a bit. By the time we leave for college, she should be fine (though no crunchy food or food with hard seeds for a few weeks). A plus is that she not longer has to worry about her wisdom teeth during college or afterwards.
I will likely be drinking more next week when we get back here.
IRboy starts high school next week. For reasons unclear to me, our high school courses run on ten-day loops. One Tuesday is not the same as another Tuesday. Also for unclear reasons, most of the ten days stop and start at times that differ from one day to the next, usually within 5-10 minutes but sometimes an hour. Monday might start at 8:00 and end at 2:30 and Tuesday will start at 8:10 and end at 2:40. The times are listed in a separate document from the class schedule. His schedule of a ten day rotation of classes does not have any times on it. You have to hold it next to a pdf showing the times to know where you need to be at a given hour.
Did I mention IRson's excutive funtioning is very, very low?
I've only been half paying attention because I assume my responsibilities start and end with getting him to the bus stop in the morning - he will have to take it from there. But to that end, we've received no information on when and where the bus will be. I paid $400 in March for him to ride it, and the first day of school is next week, and I have no idea where my money went.
(Now the school wants another $400 for IRgirl to take music lessons and I'm just going to hold off on giving them any more money right now.)
Found out today that the college son did not register for one of his classes and did not make the waitlist. ARGH. What could have been easily straightened out had he been more proactive has become a big headache, but I will not let it become so for ME. That is for him to sort out, and if it takes him an extra semester to work and pay for, sobeit. But ARGH! He thought he'd been waitlisted but there was a snafu with a pre-req (which he had, but which the registrar did not think he had, so it was a really...easy...fix...argh!!!!).
Anyway, he also didn't get a dorm or an apartment arranged this year, so he has to commute. That should get old fast, and again, is not my problem. Until something happens to his car, and I am going in the same direction...
SPADFY. it applies to kids, too. I am organized. Highly organized. I can organize anything. The kids got dad's genes, not mine, in that area. Uncontrolled chaos it not an understatement.
Bioson figured out in grade 8 or so that his life was better if he didn't use his locker. He carried everything with him all day long, including his winter coat. We got him the jumbo sized top-load backpack at Target and crossed our fingers. It worked for him. With the way the high school campus is set up, 3 buildings, students moving between them... Bioette has followed this pattern. Her locker is, in theory, located near her last class of the day. She finds it easier to carry everything with her, violin included.
As faculty, we were good students and likely excelled in all things academic. Our kids may not have those traits. I have to remind myself of that now and then. Eye on the prize, parents: are they getting passing grades? Are they getting enough sleep to function? Are you still on speaking terms most of time? If yes, keep doing what you are doing. Even if, especially if, their way of doing this school thing is different than yours.
Do you know how hard it is for me to NOT check and double check that Bioette is ready for her first day tomorrow? For all I know, her backpack still has stuff in it from last year. This is not my problem. It's her problem. It might be my problem tomorrow night when she's in tears of exhaustion that she can't find XY or Z, at which point I'll be scarfing up all chocolate in sight and biting my tongue until it bleeds.....
Wellkid is also anti-locker, which occasionally means hauling everything on the 30+ minute walk home. Whatever. It works for him.
I'm highly organized and carried everything for years in a duffel all day (6 AM to 10 PM) because my schedule was stupid and out of my hands.
Random thoughts...
1. What has this country come to when parents have to pay for school bus access? What happens to kids whose families can't pay?
2. How much money did the prepaid box of school supplies cost? How much do you wanna bet you could have bought equivalent supplies of at least equal quality at Wal-Mart or some such venue for a wee bit of effort and much less dough? Is this setup not really just another fundraising effort parents are being asked to shell out to help privatize the cost of ostensibly public education?
3. Of course, many of these supplies used to just be bought for kids, especially pre high school aged ones, by the schools. More defunding of public schools.
4. Do 6th graders, even in affluent districts, really need to even be considering where to go to college, let alone forced to haul around heavy backpacks full of books? The problem of executive function deficits in many of these kids is often heavily influenced by making kids do too much serious academic planning type stuff too soon, especially with boys who are just on the cusp of adolescence.
5. What would possibly be the legitimate rationale for having a high school daily schedule that sees the school day start and end at different times? What good could come of this?
To the last point: my local middle school, where I subbed in rotation with other schools in the district, had something like this.
The kids and regular teachers did, sort of, seem to "get it" by Thanksgiving.
I never did. There were lettered days and numbered days, and some distribution of the one over the other, but it never neverever never did make sense to me. I don't yet see the point (and 2 of my music students will be going there this year, I hear...) but that's what they do.
Cui bono?
Dunno.
M.
2. My employer values my time at $250/h and the nearest Wal-Mart is a two-hour round trip in just travel if the road is open. The box is a convenience for which I am willing to pay and good on the school for fundraising on something worth having. Our state takes the local taxes and redistributes them through the whole state. Thus, we subsidize the state and then write big checks to support the local school district to get the education for our kids we want.
4. We are a college-focused town since the majority of the adults have graduate degrees in specific STEM fields. People who don't start the math foundation in middle school seldom catch up. Other aspects can wait, but not the math. Thus, discussing the plan now is encouraged to put enough effort into math to be competitive for the good programs. "Losers" go to the state flagship; many of the parents in town went to elite institutions from modest beginnings by taking education seriously starting in middle school at the latest.
5. Some kids will eventually get the flex times schedule, but any kid with any executive function difficulties will have real difficulties, let alone kids with more significant LD issues or who's on the spectrum.
4. I get that affluent scientists may want their 6th graders to start planning to get into MIT, etc, but many kids that age, especially boys, just ain't ready to do that yet, irrespective of their IQs or general long-term educational potential. What happens to a kid like that in this sort of environment?
2. I take it you acknowledge that the prepaid supplies box is more expensive than what you could buy for yourself, either in person or online. It's good that you don't mind paying more to help underwrite the schools. What about those who don't make 250 bucks an hour, however?
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 26, 2019, 07:49:04 PM
4. I get that affluent scientists may want their 6th graders to start planning to get into MIT, etc, but many kids that age, especially boys, just ain't ready to do that yet, irrespective of their IQs or general long-term educational potential. What happens to a kid like that in this sort of environment?
We have people making the 2 hour or more daily commutes to live in other districts because that school is a better fit for their kids, among other reasons having to do with a different living environment.
Quote
2. I take it you acknowledge that the prepaid supplies box is more expensive than what you could buy for yourself, either in person or online. It's good that you don't mind paying more to help underwrite the schools. What about those who don't make 250 bucks an hour, however?
The boxes are not mandatory purchases. However, the median household income here is almost twice the U.S. median household income (i.e., my family is unusual in having only one income when many families have two affluent scientist incomes) The district doesn't participate in the national school lunch program because the extra rules for almost no money when we only have a 5% poverty rate is a bad trade.
Money is easier to come by than time for most parents here. One of my co-workers was sure she could save money by doing the shopping herself. Again, her time cost so much more than any savings.
My employer collected almost a thousand filled backpacks and ten thousand dollars to distribute to other school districts in the state to help our very poor state stretch education dollars because we as a community care so much about education and have extra money.
I've come to the depressing conclusion that I either have to micromanage my kids' homework and chores (making sure they do what they're supposed to do when they get home, that they're doing their homework correctly, that their rooms are clean and backpacks organized, etc.) or my husband is going to do it, and when he does it, everyone is miserable. So I have to put time and attention into this, even though I am much busier than my husband (he is not an academic and works part-time from home) and even though it goes against some of my parenting beliefs (I tend to be a little more hands-off). However, if I don't actively monitor the kids (ages 7 and 10), all hell breaks loose, with my husband yelling at somebody about something.
At this point it's not worth trying to argue or settle. We are too deeply entrenched. I don't have the time or energy to either change or leave my husband, an overall we get along well and he's a great dad. It's just that school evenings, four evenings a week, are hell, and I've come to realize that I'm not going to get anything done on those nights, at least not until the kids go to bed.
I think the starting and stopping at different times could be learned if it was on a weekly rotation. I don't know how I will keep track of a ten day rotation. I guess it could be worse, it could be 8 days or something else that doesn't correspond to a week.
Our district once tried the prepaid box of school supplies thing, it was optional but I think it was a fundraiser of some sort. In our case though, the quality was subpar, and it turned out the company doing the boxes had ties to some extremely conservative Christian group that made public homophobic statements, so the experiment was quickly discontinued.
I'm going to take another whack at this one.
Quote from: kaysixteen on August 26, 2019, 07:49:04 PM
4. I get that affluent scientists may want their 6th graders to start planning to get into MIT, etc, but many kids that age, especially boys, just ain't ready to do that yet, irrespective of their IQs or general long-term educational potential. What happens to a kid like that in this sort of environment?
I posted initially with my frustration with one arts and crafts assignment where my kid didn't plan ahead well enough and apparently English class just handed it out and assumed the kids would apply their art lesson knowledge to plan it.
One reason people do choose to live here is 6th grade is still in the elementary school, where the students get multiple recesses a day. As a community, we donate money and the school then still has art, music, theater, library, journalism including radio broadcast (yes, in elementary), Spanish and a couple other language clubs, and other fabulous things that make a good life, but have been cut from many resource-strapped districts.
The community sends a non-zero number of HS graduates to MIT/Caltech/Stanford-level elite institutions every year, but we also send a non-zero number of HS graduates to Julliard/Berklee-level elite performing and other art institutions. We have a non-zero number of HS graduates who go to S(elective)LACs as well as HYP. The graduation section of the local paper tends to have several dozen students who graduated HS and earned a useful career certificate (e.g., EMT/nursing/fire fighting) from the CC that is literally across the street from the HS. We send a non-zero number of HS graduates every year to the military and frequently someone goes to a military academy for college.
I joke about the "losers" going to the state flagship, but we do have plenty of recent HS graduates who go to one of the research universities in the state (AKA good enough colleges that are reasonably priced) as well as good enough colleges in neighboring states that have reciprocity and thus also are reasonably priced. These aren't literal losers and would be the top students in most other districts in the state. Mr. Mer is an alum of the state flagship so it would be fine for Blocky to go there.
We also have a fair number of HS graduates who start their own or join start-ups as a good next step right after HS. My employer does HS internships and then hires as technicians/clerks local people right out of HS and then later pays for college and even grad school for those who want to go and will stay employed. We're just as short on good clerks in the back office as we are on scientists so we need all kinds and do pay for additional education for certificates at a local specialized CC programs as well as associate/bachelor/master/PhD degrees.. Thinking particularly about my kid, Blocky is much more likely to be in the start-up/intern category or military category than going to college right away, let alone MIT at 17. However, I saw no need to say at this juncture, "You aren't aiming for MIT, kid. Pick out my alma mater", especially considering that my alma mater has a fancy seal that would be much harder to draw over three letters on a white background.
This particular community also has a large homeschooling contingent (mostly for that flexibility in exploring interests that aren't within the classroom) as well as a couple Montessori schools. A group of parents is currently standing up a charter school in part because they want a different mix of elementary instructional time. People do, though, live 100+ miles away to enroll their kids in an excellent private school in a true urban region or live an hour away for good enough public schools in a more diverse environment closer to shops and restaurants with somewhat cheaper housing.
However, my family lives in this community in large part because within rounding of all the students are literate, numerate, and on a good path to something as an adult. One reason my family lives on one income is to provide enough free time for Blocky to explore his own interests at home while Mr. Mer is around to provide a little physical safety and feedback as part of bouncing around ideas. I had a similar upbringing and, hey look, I have the same job as my colleagues without a death-march-for-academic-excellence-starting-at-birth. Currently, Blocky has decided for himself to learn Python and is doing the research on what kind of computer we will get him for Christmas so Blocky can do more with his interest in game design. The game engines are so good now and practically free so that's actually a reasonable hobby for an 11-year-old.
Very big picture: having friends who are going places and the occasional summer camp with other kids who are going places means Blocky already has started building his network of people who will contact him with middle-class-income-interesting-enough job openings as well as being able to put out word himself that he's looking and probably get something interesting above minimum wage. Having that network will make Blocky's adult life easier if he continues to float along as a bright enough, pleasant enough guy who isn't great at organization and seldom leads anything, but is a good enough team player in the group.
Quote from: polly_mer on August 27, 2019, 06:33:57 AM
Very big picture: having friends who are going places and the occasional summer camp with other kids who are going places means Blocky already has started building his network of people who will contact him with middle-class-income-interesting-enough job openings as well as being able to put out word himself that he's looking and probably get something interesting above minimum wage. Having that network will make Blocky's adult life easier if he continues to float along as a bright enough, pleasant enough guy who isn't great at organization and seldom leads anything, but is a good enough team player in the group.
This is why the disadvantage of being a first-generation college student can't be overstated. I am a first-generation academic, and STILL feel this lack in my life. (By the way, I'm making sure my kids have the above advantages as well).
Quote from: sylvie on August 27, 2019, 06:58:14 AM
This is why the disadvantage of being a first-generation college student can't be overstated. I am a first-generation academic, and STILL feel this lack in my life. (By the way, I'm making sure my kids have the above advantages as well).
I'm in the same boat and Polly's post made my head spin, but it's clear the other families in our school district are operating on those terms. They're just totally unfamiliar to me.
Disclaimer: no children of my own.
The story of the organizer and the MIT pennant assignment made me chuckle so here's this as a reward: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JTIfB8mHEY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JTIfB8mHEY) (unfortunately I get an annoying pink Barbie ad when I click on this link).
Quote from: sylvie on August 27, 2019, 06:58:14 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on August 27, 2019, 06:33:57 AM
Very big picture: having friends who are going places and the occasional summer camp with other kids who are going places means Blocky already has started building his network of people who will contact him with middle-class-income-interesting-enough job openings as well as being able to put out word himself that he's looking and probably get something interesting above minimum wage. Having that network will make Blocky's adult life easier if he continues to float along as a bright enough, pleasant enough guy who isn't great at organization and seldom leads anything, but is a good enough team player in the group.
This is why the disadvantage of being a first-generation college student can't be overstated. I am a first-generation academic, and STILL feel this lack in my life. (By the way, I'm making sure my kids have the above advantages as well).
Same here -- was a first gen college student, from a rural area where hardly anyone went to college of any sort. The most frequently chosen career paths were working in a low-tech, dangerous industry that no longer exists, the military, or prison (as an inmate). No organized summer camps or private music lessons. The public school system was adequate -- but only if one had parents who thought college was a worthwhile option. And it was a real shocker to start college by encountering people who had attended Bronx High School of Science, already had a couple of years of calculus under their belts, etc. It was really a love of reading, a habit I picked up from my parents, that pulled me through.
Today I encounter college students from poor backgrounds and crummy public schools who have delusions about medical school, despite math proficiency capping out at pre-algebra and perhaps a 10th grade reading level. While anything is possible, in practical terms they've missed the bus and will never be able to catch up.
Quote from: irhack on August 27, 2019, 07:40:17 AM
I'm in the same boat and Polly's post made my head spin, but it's clear the other families in our school district are operating on those terms. They're just totally unfamiliar to me.
Knowing
all the rules and how to be positioned to be the best qualified for the upcoming whatever is another huge disadvantage for those of us who didn't grow up with parents who could acculturate us.
As many frequent readers know, I love Cal Newport's advice to students, particularly to get out of the mindset of trying to win at misery poker (http://www.calnewport.com/blog/2008/11/05/do-you-play-misery-poker-or-quack/) or that somehow the person with the longest list of checkbox busy work is really winning at life (http://www.calnewport.com/blog/2010/03/26/how-to-get-into-stanford-with-bs-on-your-transcript-failed-simulations-the-surprising-psychology-of-impressiveness/).
Yes, there are open calls for which one has to be competitive. However, there are far more good enough opportunities where people start by asking friends and colleagues to an interesting activity and then perhaps ask others to work their networks followed by an open call only if a true need is identified and the best way to get someone qualified is the open call.
Even proposals that are open to everyone tend to go much more smoothly when one knows whether the gatekeepers are truly bouncing proposals for minor formatting without ever reading or whether the bar is a good idea where the winners are going to be those who submit a "first" proposal that has already been polished through several rounds of revisions with people who frequently serve as the reviewers.
I read https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2019/9/6/20851349/back-to-school-shopping-supply-digital-target-walmart-teacherlists and thought of kaysixteen's questions on this thread.
One particularly interesting tidbit from the Vox article was
Quote
According to data shared by marketing intelligence firm MiQ, American shoppers make around 16 trips to stores for back-to-school stuff between July and September, and they spend over $500 per family.
Blocky's school supply box was nowhere near $500 and it took Mr. Mer under 5 minutes to log in, check the box, and click through the payment screens. Even adding a few new school clothes to replace old ones through online shopping is another half hour and far less than a total of $500.
Why I am drinking tonight:
The loft bed "kits" provided in the Freshman dorm. I won't got into the details, but in sum: 5 HOURS to assemble.
There is not enough booze in this hotel room tonight.
Consolatio, maybe: at least you don't have to climb up and sleep in it?
M.
Quote from: familydoc on September 07, 2019, 08:22:34 PM
Why I am drinking tonight:
The loft bed "kits" provided in the Freshman dorm. I won't got into the details, but in sum: 5 HOURS to assemble.
There is not enough booze in this hotel room tonight.
The Mouselet was thinking of lofting her bed, but decided against it. We did raise her bed to the highest level that did not require lofting. In her dorms, though, they have people who know how to do it, so parents and students do not have to deal with it. It takes them 1/2 an hour or so.
I let Nephew have a slumber party for his 11th birthday. "I don't want to leave out any of my friends!" he said.
We had eight children at one point in the evening (not all of them chose to sleep over).
Glad birthdays only happen once a year...
Yesterday was a Friends of the Library Book Sale with $5 for a standard brown grocery bag. They provide the bags and you are allowed to pack it yourself.
My child had to be told to go get a bag and pick out some books. I had to reassure him that any book that caught his interest is fair game. It doesn't have to be in a language he currently reads; it doesn't have to pertain to life circumstances we currently have (there was a dummies book related to dog training and we have no dog). I will pay for any book he'd like to have from this sale. Once he got into it, he ended up with a whole stack of cooking books that he is currently exploring in the kitchen with his papa.
Back to yesterday's tale, when my child had "finished" his first bag, I helped him repack it so he could get a few more in. Then, the child had the nerve to say, well, it's full; I guess I'm done. I made him get me another bag and insisted he continue to look for books since we'd only gotten through a quarter of the non-fiction section at that point.
How can I possibly have a child who needs to be encouraged to acquire books instead of being restrained from taking more than his weight at any single occasion?
Maybe he doesn't like thinking about all those Post-its he'll have to write and put on the wall??
(Interthreaduality)
;--》
M.
Quote from: polly_mer on September 29, 2019, 08:53:21 AM
Yesterday was a Friends of the Library Book Sale with $5 for a standard brown grocery bag. They provide the bags and you are allowed to pack it yourself.
My child had to be told to go get a bag and pick out some books. I had to reassure him that any book that caught his interest is fair game. It doesn't have to be in a language he currently reads; it doesn't have to pertain to life circumstances we currently have (there was a dummies book related to dog training and we have no dog). I will pay for any book he'd like to have from this sale. Once he got into it, he ended up with a whole stack of cooking books that he is currently exploring in the kitchen with his papa.
Back to yesterday's tale, when my child had "finished" his first bag, I helped him repack it so he could get a few more in. Then, the child had the nerve to say, well, it's full; I guess I'm done. I made him get me another bag and insisted he continue to look for books since we'd only gotten through a quarter of the non-fiction section at that point.
How can I possibly have a child who needs to be encouraged to acquire books instead of being restrained from taking more than his weight at any single occasion?
I would have been the kid who stuffed the bag to the bursting point and then quibbled about whether the top of the bag really had to close. Yes, I have way, way too many books.
I would (ahem) suggest that there's no such thing as too many books. Too little shelf space, yes. Too few books? Nah.
Has anyone successfully gotten out of mandatory science fair that is basically the parents doing all the support for the child?
Apparently, the teacher has never before been told that the child cannot do most of the work in the evenings and weekends at home because there's no qualified adult to provide guidance during that time. True story because I'm just swamped for the next couple of months and I'm not having an 80 h workweek because the school decided science fair is mandatory.
Our science fairs are not mandatory, so I have not been subjected to this particular corner of hell. I have no good ideas, beyond chocolate, good music, and your adult beverage of choice.
Shouldn't the science project the kid needs to do for the fair be able to, ahem, be done by the kid himself? Believe me, k12 teachers can well recognize and strongly despise projects or papers that have clearly substantively been done by parents. No schools or teachers want parents to do this.
I recall a science fair project done on a sheet of plywood, painted white, with a drilled-out center hole covered from behind by yellow cellophane, with a porch light shining behind it, and a title bar saying "What makes Day and Night?"
All the planets (Pluto's license to planethood hadn't yet been revoked) were there in teensey circles, painted as we thought they looked then. A globe of the Earth sat in front so you could make it look like day...or night.
It was pretty cool.
I wouldn't have denied my dad the fun of orchestrating that (or the vinegar-and baking powder volcano he did with my sister two years later--Science Fair was for 3rd graders only) for anything....
M.
But it wasn't your work, and allowing this sort of thing penalizes kids whose parents can't or won't do their projects for or with them, many of whom are low income, single parents, etc. When, further, does parental participation cease to be quality time and start to become cheating.
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 07, 2019, 10:07:28 PM
But it wasn't your work, and allowing this sort of thing penalizes kids whose parents can't or won't do their projects for or with them, many of whom are low income, single parents, etc.
This is one of my concerns because it relates to the research on how people get interested in STEM and what turns them off early in their paths, like late elementary/middle school.
Having a very interested student do the research to answer a burning question is a fabulous learning experience, regardless of any future job outcome. Insisting that everyone do a project with random levels of support and interest tends to be very discouraging, especially for the students who were kinda, sorta interested until they hit the unpleasant parts of doing science (i.e., a true project instead of a demo) and didn't have both the interest and the necessary adult support to successfully continue. We hit that point during last year's mandatory science fair when my child shouted, "I hate science!" and started crying, even with the barest minimum work (literally two hours on one afternoon) on a question to which he dearly wanted to know the answer.
I was a science fair judge for years. One state-level fair in particular sticks in my memory with a student who did a true student project with minimal adult help right next to the student who had written up his internship project from the national lab that was publishable in Phys. Rev. Lett. When I questioned the Phys. Rev. Lett. student, who happened to have done a project very closely related to my dissertation work, that student knew his stuff. I would have been proud to have a graduate student do and present that work. We sent that student on to the international science fair where he did quite well.
In contrast, the student next to this graduate-level poster had a project that was clearly a couple afternoons/evenings and had neglected to use a thermometer when temperature was an important concern. How do you suppose that Navajo student from the remote rural school felt about her good enough, appropriate level work when she spent all day watching droves of judges visit and revisit the grad-level poster to spend a total of several hours talking with that student when she had a total of perhaps 30 minutes first thing in the morning with the minimum three judges for 10 minutes each? Is she signing up for more science or has she learned that science is for other people who have resources and look more like a scientist in pictures? I took my preggie belly over to talk to her when I saw this happening, but I don't know that one judge spending a little extra time is going to make a big enough difference in a whole day of clearly being inadequate, especially when she can see that same judge spent far more time interacting at the other poster and treating that student as a professional-level scientist.
I also have many memories of asking students at various levels what their favorite part of the project was. I can remember many students at the school and regional levels explaining with great enthusiasm being allowed to use glitter on their boards or spray paint or something else indicating the science wasn't even on the top 10 list of memorable parts of their project. Even at the state level from some pretty rural regions, students were often more excited about the trip out of the county to the big city (10k people) than anything related to the science in their project.
Even as a parent who has the expertise to mentor a science project, I am quite angry that the school who has the children for 32 hours per week with about 8 weeks to do the science fair deems science fair important enough to be mandatory, but not important enough to devote time and resources to ensuring that every child has adequate mentoring and time to do a good enough project and have a positive experience, even if that's the joy of the arts and crafts aspect of the poster. My rural, public school managed to do that when I was a child; what's the deal with this school district that has mandatory music, art, and theatre during school hours, but makes science be done outside of school with random support at home because "there's not enough time in the curriculum for science fair"?
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 07, 2019, 10:07:28 PM
But it wasn't your work, and allowing this sort of thing penalizes kids whose parents can't or won't do their projects for or with them, many of whom are low income, single parents, etc. When, further, does parental participation cease to be quality time and start to become cheating.
It was, though.
We did the painting and we were quizzed about all the parts of it to be sure we understood and could answer questions a out it.
Third graders need some help from conception to execution, and it was conversational, not coercive, all the way through.
A more feminized concept of ownership, we might say now...we just didn't have that language then.
M.
This kind of discussion of science fairs always makes me sad. Science fairs are how I got my start in science. I went to a small K-8 private school where Science Day was a big deal. Everyone in grades 1-8 participated, there was a full panel of outside judges and award at every grade level. I still have my demo book from several of these projects (we did booklets rather than the now ubiquitous tri-fold poster). I also will point to the multiple other women alumnae of my elementary school that are now engineers, computer scientists, epidemiologists, microbiologists, and geologists as evidence that early science fairs can be the spark. We were lucky to have an amazing head of the science program at that school who did what for the day was really advanced science with young kids.
However, I fully and readily admit that my Mother was heavily involved in each experiment (although I did do a lot of the work and could explain it all), and that these events require an amazing amount of effort by all involved. I do think that was an era where more parental participation (especially at a private school) was the norm. My mother did work but somehow had time to help me bake agar plates in our oven to replicate Flemming's results. I fully realize that not everyone has the resources, time, or even the inclination to go that deep on a project like this.
I've also judged at many science fairs and seen the difference between the home grown garage projects (like mine were), and the intern at the local uni who sequences his own genome or some such. I will say that my experience is that usually the garage experiment kid knows their topic better. The really sad part for me is when I always asked what the next experiment might be from the project. Often kids didn't understand the question because science fair time was over- no sense of exploration at all.
I rather like what my local high school does. I've been a judge for 6 years now, which is the lifespan of the STEM fair. There are no ribbons or prizes. There is no contest. It is not mandatory. But for students who have a question, or an interest, are given a chance to explore it. Our job is to talk to them about their project. Some work in groups, some as individuals. I have been amazed (in good and bad ways) every year. I've seen some displays that were thrown together in a weekend, others that culminated from hours of work over a term. I spent time with all of them, asking what they learned, what they'd do differently, what made them wonder about this subject. They light up. Sometimes, they are mortified they didn't think of an obvious (to us) control. I welcome them to science, where making mistakes is where we learn. What would they do differently next time? What is a good follow-up project? How could they dig deeper?
I totally skip the guided handouts I'm given to help me give feedback. Instead, I just talk to them about what they did and why. I an always draw on my background to help them understand something a bit more. I love getting to praise them for the controls they did use, even clumsily, if it shows they are TRYING to be methodical. We talk about bias, about the importance of doing some background research before diving into a project (and not knowing what you are doing or why, but just doing it b/c it is cool). I see little to no evidence of parental involvement (grades 9-12). I go every year because it's the sort of thing I want to support. Every presenter is assigned at least 3 judges to come talk to them. It's open to the public, too.
For some of these kids, it's a dumb one off. For others? The show both true dedication and frustration at the limits in their budget and supplies. I wish Blocky's school got away from forced parent /child project and moved to something more practical.
Polly'sand points are different, and well taken. These things shouldn't be mandatory, shouldn't be at night, snd should have age appropriate expectations, the one on 10k exceptions like the kid who produced the publication quality effort notwithstanding. But yes, it rather is cheating when parents substantially aid in the doing of such projects, which is another reason why the expectations for such efforts must needs be age appropriate. I like the no prizes thing too, as it helps put the kibosh on using such fairs for college admissions cred, again something denied to those kids without the financial and cultural family capital to score such awards.
Quote from: mythbuster on October 08, 2019, 11:18:06 AM
This kind of discussion of science fairs always makes me sad. Science fairs are how I got my start in science.
I have come to really prefer science festivals where everyone does the science together on site.
My childhood science fair experience was meh. I spent a couple weeks of science class in 7th grade working on a couple sheets of paper to illustrate the process of photosynthesis in a leaf (the first thing on the list of suggestions that I could face doing). I didn't get to attend the one day show because we had a family vacation planned months in advance, so I was on travel during the week of the show.
I continue to laugh (to avoid crying) every time I encounter the idea that we MUST make everyone be a real scientist at an early age through formal required experiences. I never meant to become a scientist. When I was a child, I was a bookworm with all the indications of becoming a librarian or English teacher.
However, I had very good science and math classes throughout K-12 and was able to go to engineering school on scholarship with the plan to meet a husband who would then support me in some humanities endeavor like perhaps becoming a philosophy professor. I've come to accept that I am a scientist with my engineering education because that pays pretty well and is interesting enough to want to go to work every day, but I'm still more bookworm than scientist.
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 07, 2019, 10:07:28 PM
But it wasn't your work, and allowing this sort of thing penalizes kids whose parents can't or won't do their projects for or with them, many of whom are low income, single parents, etc. When, further, does parental participation cease to be quality time and start to become cheating.
When my son was in elementary school, they had a project to build a bridge. I remember the hours struggling to help him with that. One kid wound up with an amazingly professional bridge. Turns out his dad is a
machinist. (Well, duh!)
Quote from: polly_mer on October 08, 2019, 05:21:26 AM
I was a science fair judge for years. One state-level fair in particular sticks in my memory with a student who did a true student project with minimal adult help right next to the student who had written up his internship project from the national lab that was publishable in Phys. Rev. Lett. When I questioned the Phys. Rev. Lett. student, who happened to have done a project very closely related to my dissertation work, that student knew his stuff. I would have been proud to have a graduate student do and present that work. We sent that student on to the international science fair where he did quite well.
I've seen stories like that. I can't remember a
single one where it didn't turn out that the kid had one or two parents who were university profs, and the kid did the work
in their lab. The kid may be smart, but that's grossly unfair to the other students.
Quote from: polly_mer on October 08, 2019, 05:21:26 AM
Even as a parent who has the expertise to mentor a science project, I am quite angry that the school who has the children for 32 hours per week with about 8 weeks to do the science fair deems science fair important enough to be mandatory, but not important enough to devote time and resources to ensuring that every child has adequate mentoring and time to do a good enough project and have a positive experience, even if that's the joy of the arts and crafts aspect of the poster. My rural, public school managed to do that when I was a child; what's the deal with this school district that has mandatory music, art, and theatre during school hours, but makes science be done outside of school with random support at home because "there's not enough time in the curriculum for science fair"?
My reason for having it done at school is so all kids have access to the same resources and expertise. Otherwise it's just an invitation to game the system.
Quote from: marshwiggle on October 09, 2019, 06:19:46 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 07, 2019, 10:07:28 PM
But it wasn't your work, and allowing this sort of thing penalizes kids whose parents can't or won't do their projects for or with them, many of whom are low income, single parents, etc. When, further, does parental participation cease to be quality time and start to become cheating.
When my son was in elementary school, they had a project to build a bridge. I remember the hours struggling to help him with that. One kid wound up with an amazingly professional bridge. Turns out his dad is a machinist. (Well, duh!)
Quote from: polly_mer on October 08, 2019, 05:21:26 AM
I was a science fair judge for years. One state-level fair in particular sticks in my memory with a student who did a true student project with minimal adult help right next to the student who had written up his internship project from the national lab that was publishable in Phys. Rev. Lett. When I questioned the Phys. Rev. Lett. student, who happened to have done a project very closely related to my dissertation work, that student knew his stuff. I would have been proud to have a graduate student do and present that work. We sent that student on to the international science fair where he did quite well.
I've seen stories like that. I can't remember a single one where it didn't turn out that the kid had one or two parents who were university profs, and the kid did the work in their lab. The kid may be smart, but that's grossly unfair to the other students.
Quote from: polly_mer on October 08, 2019, 05:21:26 AM
Even as a parent who has the expertise to mentor a science project, I am quite angry that the school who has the children for 32 hours per week with about 8 weeks to do the science fair deems science fair important enough to be mandatory, but not important enough to devote time and resources to ensuring that every child has adequate mentoring and time to do a good enough project and have a positive experience, even if that's the joy of the arts and crafts aspect of the poster. My rural, public school managed to do that when I was a child; what's the deal with this school district that has mandatory music, art, and theatre during school hours, but makes science be done outside of school with random support at home because "there's not enough time in the curriculum for science fair"?
My reason for having it done at school is so all kids have access to the same resources and expertise. Otherwise it's just an invitation to game the system.
Maybe it's unfair to other students on one level.
On the other hand, how can the other students get a chance to see what is possible if everything is limited to what can be done with construction paper and glue sticks?
I'm all for leveling the playing field, in the arts as well as the sciences.
There has always been an apprenticeship component to the "doing" things, though.
Either you learn from an apprentice master, or a parent or other relative (who might in fact be the apprentice master) about the practical hands-on parts of things.
So I'm not sure we want to circumvent that entirely.
If someone comes up with a better defibrillator because their compressed learning curve as a child made it possible to start work on such a thing early on, everyone (or many people) may benefit.
So it's a nuanced situation, I think...
M.
ETA: yes, going along with Ciao's observation.
Quote from: ciao_yall on October 09, 2019, 06:32:54 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on October 09, 2019, 06:19:46 AM
My reason for having it done at school is so all kids have access to the same resources and expertise. Otherwise it's just an invitation to game the system.
Maybe it's unfair to other students on one level.
On the other hand, how can the other students get a chance to see what is possible if everything is limited to what can be done with construction paper and glue sticks?
Quote from: mamselle on October 09, 2019, 06:38:19 AM
I'm all for leveling the playing field, in the arts as well as the sciences.
There has always been an apprenticeship component to the "doing" things, though.
Either you learn from an apprentice master, or a parent or other relative (who might in fact be the apprentice master) about the practical hands-on parts of things.
So I'm not sure we want to circumvent that entirely.
So fine; bring the master
into the classroom and have
all of the class participate as apprentices, rather than pitting those who have access against those who don't.
Quote
So fine; bring the master into the classroom and have all of the class participate as apprentices, rather than pitting those who have access against those who don't.
Agree with this. Recently, i was at a high school class reunion (year was a VERY long time ago) and we were laughing about some winning science fair projects from our time. We grew up in Oak Ridge Tennessee and some classmates had parents who worked at the National Lab. Some of them had access to great facilities. From my former classmates who have stayed in the area, the high school now asks for mentor volunteers from the National Lab to mento any students who want to try and do a project. Parents can still assist their own students but at least the high school is trying to provide opportunities for their students who don't have that advantage. I don't know whether this program has been successful or not.
Parents drink because it is available, in most states, at every turn. In my home state alcohol is served at family restaurants, on Sundays, after hours, before churches let out, in addition to being easily available for at home use via a cow patty load of specialty retailers, mega beverage sales outlets, and membership warehouses. Add to these the "Sports Bars", night clubs, lounges etc., at all of which discussion is encouraged and the subject of family and children will come up. So, drink accompanying the proximity children, the thoughts of family and children, and in general discussions is encouraged. At homes, where in most cases, drinking takes a bit more effort and calls for ready resources and, perhaps, there would be direct, intelligent, and moderated attempts to make workable attempts at solving or reducing the need or course of turning to "drinkin'". So, go to work on our children's problems, family or student, and quit your stewin' and bellyachin' and take brighter courses of action.
The science fair discussion has been pretty robust and very interesting. I have a couple thoughts, although I have actually never participated in one, nor have my kids (as a requirement... they/I have as part of outside activities). I really like the idea of bringing knowledgeable volunteers into the classroom. I wonder if, instead of individual projects, students could propose projects, and the class could vote and reduce the list to just a few. The teacher could seek mentors for those specific projects, and students could work in groups (or individually, depending on size and scope of project). Science is often collaborative, but this would give an opportunity for students to share their project ideas and then work together on learning and achieving. I think a workshop type of feel, rather than a competitive one, could be useful at the earlier grades. Maybe after instituting something like this for a few years, there could be competitive science fairs that are optional. I hope I didn't duplicate too much already said. If so, apologies! I really do think the discussion has been illuminating. Most of my thinking comes from those outside activities which were much more team-oriented.
Quote from: marshwiggle on October 09, 2019, 07:06:43 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on October 09, 2019, 06:32:54 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on October 09, 2019, 06:19:46 AM
My reason for having it done at school is so all kids have access to the same resources and expertise. Otherwise it's just an invitation to game the system.
Maybe it's unfair to other students on one level.
On the other hand, how can the other students get a chance to see what is possible if everything is limited to what can be done with construction paper and glue sticks?
Quote from: mamselle on October 09, 2019, 06:38:19 AM
I'm all for leveling the playing field, in the arts as well as the sciences.
There has always been an apprenticeship component to the "doing" things, though.
Either you learn from an apprentice master, or a parent or other relative (who might in fact be the apprentice master) about the practical hands-on parts of things.
So I'm not sure we want to circumvent that entirely.
So fine; bring the master into the classroom and have all of the class participate as apprentices, rather than pitting those who have access against those who don't.
Ok, good idea.
Agree.
M.
In my school system, fourth, fifth, and sixth graders could participate in science fairs. (If there were any high school fairs, I didn't know about them.) I had fun with my projects all three years and did them on my own. One year I needed piece of wood cut, and my father did that, because he didn't want me to use the saw. But other than that my parents weren't involved.
I don't understand the point of having children do a canned project from a book or worksheets for a science fair. It could be a fun activity, but doesn't involve generating any original ideas.
Quote from: Economizer on October 09, 2019, 11:15:49 AM
Parents drink because it is available, in most states, at every turn. In my home state alcohol is served at family restaurants, on Sundays, after hours, before churches let out, in addition to being easily available for at home use via a cow patty load of specialty retailers, mega beverage sales outlets, and membership warehouses. Add to these the "Sports Bars", night clubs, lounges etc., at all of which discussion is encouraged and the subject of family and children will come up. So, drink accompanying the proximity children, the thoughts of family and children, and in general discussions is encouraged. At homes, where in most cases, drinking takes a bit more effort and calls for ready resources and, perhaps, there would be direct, intelligent, and moderated attempts to make workable attempts at solving or reducing the need or course of turning to "drinkin'". So, go to work on our children's problems, family or student, and quit your stewin' and bellyachin' and take brighter courses of action.
And worse... drinking could lead to dancing.
Oh, the hora!
M.
On the science fair front:
a) A couple weeks ago, my email exchange with the teacher went quiet after I replied to the email that ended with the pro-forma happy-to-answer-any-additional-questions and I wrote back questions regarding relative grading weight, what happens if the student doesn't rise to the occasion, and why science fair is important enough to be mandatory, but not important enough to spend class time on.
b) This week is parent-teacher conferences. A form came around with an area for concerns parents want to discuss at the conference. I entered mandatory science fair on the line and returned the form on Monday.
c) On Tuesday, Mr. Mer received a call from the district science fair coordinator who is reported to have said that the teacher will not discuss science fair during this week's conference, but we can make an appointment with the district by following the emailed instructions that will be coming.
d) We're in the midst of a school board election. So far, I've discussed mandatory science fair with anyone running who has knocked on the door. So far, no one has been in favor of mandatory science fair that falls totally on the parents, especially the people running who are parents in this school district and had their child "lose" because they let their child do the work with minimal help.
Quote from: polly_mer on October 23, 2019, 06:15:18 AM
On the science fair front:
d) We're in the midst of a school board election. So far, I've discussed mandatory science fair with anyone running who has knocked on the door. So far, no one has been in favor of mandatory science fair that falls totally on the parents, especially the people running who are parents in this school district and had their child "lose" because they let their child do the work with minimal help.
Something just occurred to me. Why isn't there a "Writing Fair" or an "Art Fair" where students do all of the work at home, with "help" from parents, where the results are judged publicly and the result becomes part of students' grades? My guess is that, especially with the "Writing Fair",
plagiarism is too obvious to pretend it doesn't happen, and it's officially wrong, whereas parent "help" in a science fair is a good thing, right????
Quote from: marshwiggle on October 23, 2019, 06:23:55 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on October 23, 2019, 06:15:18 AM
On the science fair front:
d) We're in the midst of a school board election. So far, I've discussed mandatory science fair with anyone running who has knocked on the door. So far, no one has been in favor of mandatory science fair that falls totally on the parents, especially the people running who are parents in this school district and had their child "lose" because they let their child do the work with minimal help.
Something just occurred to me. Why isn't there a "Writing Fair" or an "Art Fair" where students do all of the work at home, with "help" from parents, where the results are judged publicly and the result becomes part of students' grades? My guess is that, especially with the "Writing Fair", plagiarism is too obvious to pretend it doesn't happen, and it's officially wrong, whereas parent "help" in a science fair is a good thing, right????
Blocky's last school district did do an Art Fair with a public display at the end in the community college building downtown. The "whole town" went and the art displayed was pretty much grade level because it was all done in school.
I'm already putting together my talking points for the district meeting to point out the disaster that was the mandatory musical from last year that was a horrible experience all around because the district didn't put enough time and resources into rehearsal. It's one thing to have each class spend their music time preparing a couple pieces and then we all sit through the whole thing; I'm used to that method. The "whole school" musical that included speaking parts that clearly weren't rehearsed for pronunciation (how embarrassing to do that in front of an audience of several hundred people) and weren't practiced on the stage with risers so multiple students tripped was not nurturing anyone's theatre or musical skills.
Taking wellkid to the eye doc next week, as his color blindness is--only now at 15--messing with his school performance. It's no surprise that he *is* colorblind (so's dad), but it turns out that he now can't see some colors of marker on a whiteboard. Like the purple his chem teacher uses for assignments.
D'oh!
To Marshwiggles question, my private elementary/middle school has Science day/fair, Art day, Sports day (track and field), Talent Day, and a whole school Vaudeville style theater revue at the end of the year where each class performed "a number".
I was good as science, so I liked Science day. Art day was essentially a carnival, so everyone liked that one, even me who was designated by the art teacher as "not good at art". Sports day was fun as long as you didn't dwell on the fact that the races were always won by the kids who were taller or more along developmentally. I did come in third in the high jump one year, doing an approximation of the Fosbury flop. Remember, this was a private school in the 1980s- back when being well rounded was still a desirable trait.
I also knew some kids in middle school who did a History day project/fair thing. So these other "Days" did exist, but are likely to be cut in favor of more drill and kill for the State exam.
A terse email from the science teacher indicates that Blocky is now exempt from all science fair requirements and his grade in science will be based on the other activities in class.
I still wonder what those other activities are, especially since the weekly grade report doesn't indicate any other graded activities in the past two weeks, just submission of forms and plans.
Fun fact: the district science fair website has calls for community mentors to work with the 7-12 students to ensure that all students who want to participate in the competitive voluntary science fair that could lead to the Intel/International Science and Engineering Fair will have the adult mentoring they need. The largest employer around will provide 30 hours of paid time to be that mentor, if people jump the minimal hoops to fill out the form and get their manager's approval.
Huh. I wonder why they do the worst possible situation in 4-6 grades and then obey standard best practices in 7-12 grade. I'm sure that remains a question for the teachers on Friday during the entirely-voluntary, parent/teacher conference.
Polly, have you been declared an official troublemaker by the district yet? I say this and I entirely support your stance. Every kid should have the opportunity to do a real science project! So wear that title with pride!
Quote from: wellfleet on October 23, 2019, 08:40:02 AM
Taking wellkid to the eye doc next week, as his color blindness is--only now at 15--messing with his school performance. It's no surprise that he *is* colorblind (so's dad), but it turns out that he now can't see some colors of marker on a whiteboard. Like the purple his chem teacher uses for assignments.
D'oh!
Purely for educational purposes AND if you don't mind telling, what type of color-blindness does he have? The most common one is red-green, but your description (symptoms & inheritance) doesn't fit that at all.
I'm not the OP, but this might interest you: http://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/types-of-colour-blindness/ (http://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/types-of-colour-blindness/). There are more forms of colorblindness then I realized. Some are inherited and some can worsen with age. In the worst cases, the world is monochrome.
Quote from: Thursday's_Child on October 24, 2019, 07:17:13 AM
Quote from: wellfleet on October 23, 2019, 08:40:02 AM
Taking wellkid to the eye doc next week, as his color blindness is--only now at 15--messing with his school performance. It's no surprise that he *is* colorblind (so's dad), but it turns out that he now can't see some colors of marker on a whiteboard. Like the purple his chem teacher uses for assignments.
D'oh!
Purely for educational purposes AND if you don't mind telling, what type of color-blindness does he have? The most common one is red-green, but your description (symptoms & inheritance) doesn't fit that at all.
His hypothesis is deuteranopia, which is the more severe kind of red/green color blindness. Red and green, to him, are both pretty much shades of yellow. We will see what the optometrist says. We may need school documentation and since he's about to learn to drive . . . .
I now understand why he's come to dislike Christmas decorations, too.
So when the teacher writes with a purple marker on the whiteboard, what exactly does the kid see?
Quote from: mythbuster on October 24, 2019, 06:45:43 AM
Polly, have you been declared an official troublemaker by the district yet? I say this and I entirely support your stance. Every kid should have the opportunity to do a real science project! So wear that title with pride!
I have been voluntold by my manager that I'm spending next week in a communications workshop. Since confidentiality and prudence based on who else is in that workshop mean I can't use my real work, I plan to use best practices in science outreach as my project for the workshop. If anyone raises an eyebrow, then I've already got bookmarked the parts of the strategic plan where "all" employees are supposed to be helping with community relations and pipeline issues.
We're probably just going to take the win in not having to do science fair this year because the legitimate concerns for our family remain that this is an absurdly busy time and I'm doing a fair amount of travel with Mr. Mer not comfortable doing the required science fair process instead of actual science as normal people do it to investigate a pressing interest.
Looks like we will be saying farewell to the family dog in the near future. IRSpouse and I knew this was coming and feel somewhat emotionally prepared, but whenever we've suggested the possibility to the kids in any oblique way they freak out. She's been around practically their whole lives. We've really explored all other options, maybe not to their satisfaction. How to make this easier for them? Other pet losses were when they were very very young, or involved less awesome pets (fish, hamsters).
I'm so sorry to hear about your pet's impending loss.
It's always hard, even for adult children.
There is a dog-whisperer thread, or something akin, I think....right, here: Dog-to-English translation:
https://thefora.org/index.php?topic=69.msg7922;topicseen#msg7922
Dogrents there may have suggestions as well.
All good thoughts.
M.
I don't really know if there's a way to make pet loss easier for children. I think just acknowledging their feelings: "[Pet name] died and we are sad" or "We are angry that [pet name] couldn't stay with us forever" seems to be what they need to hear.
Nephew made a memorial stone for his second hamster, and that seemed to help him with his grief. (He thought the first one was going to come back as a zombie hamster and was very sad when the hamster did not.)
Quote from: irhack on October 25, 2019, 06:41:30 AM
Looks like we will be saying farewell to the family dog in the near future. IRSpouse and I knew this was coming and feel somewhat emotionally prepared, but whenever we've suggested the possibility to the kids in any oblique way they freak out. She's been around practically their whole lives. We've really explored all other options, maybe not to their satisfaction. How to make this easier for them? Other pet losses were when they were very very young, or involved less awesome pets (fish, hamsters).
Been there, done that about 18 months ago. Bioette was a toddler when we got Biodog and he helped raise her! I was very open about Biodog slowing down, and was firmly shut down any time I mentioned it. We had been though the death of the pet snake, and 3 rats, so the finality of it was heavy on their minds.... it was familiar territory in that sense. Death is a departure with no return.
We had an appointment scheduled with the vet for a Saturday morning so we could go as a family, but after work mid week (I think on Wed or Thursday?) it was clear to me that it was Time. I called the vet to see if they could fit us in. We loaded Biodog and Bioette into the car, drove to Bioson's work place (grocery store where he collected carts and bagged groceries). I went in and told him what was happening, and we got permission for him to come outside and say goodbye. It broke all our hearts that his farewell was so rushed and in a parking lot, but at least Bioson got to say goodbye in person.
At the vet's office, I used my phone to get some pictures that still break my heart. One of my favorites is one I took over my daughter's shoulder as she hugged him while waiting for the vet to come in. Biodog has his chin on her shoulder and is
clearly smiling. He had cataracts, had reduced hearing and I suspect was also suffering from reduced sense of smell. He was calm and quiet, letting us pet him and love him. I was bawling. Biodad was a mess. Bioette was sobbing, too. That picture is still on my phone, as it was Biodog telling Bioette goodbye in his cheerful, calm way.
When it was over, and it was a truly peaceful, gentle passing, we told him goodbye, took a small cutting of fur and his collar, and came home to an empty house. I immediately put his reamingin food in my car to give to a coworker and packed up supplies like his food and water bowl that I knew I'd be okay using again someday. We gathered some of his favorite toys and his collar into a memory box. Bioette slept with some of his toys in her bed for weeks. The stairs he used to get onto the bed were not in good shape and I put them in the garage to burn ASAP.
I needed to get rid of the visual cues that would tell us he was here, but we kept his most important belongings. I have his ashes packed in that box, too. We had planned on buying them in our yard, but the box they came back in was so lovely.... we're in no rush to decide what to do next. The vet sent a lovely card to us and we added it to that collection.
My daughter and I participated in the weekly memorial on the Rainbow Bridge website. Rituals help us process and I had done the same when a prior dog passed.
There is nothing you can do to Prepare. You're never ready. My mom did two pastel paintings of Biodog and they are hanging up in our home. New dog, cute as she is, is a certified idiot and unable to fill the hole Biodog left. She has her own place in our home, but she isn't as special (to me, at least). Biodog was a once in a lifetime dog. The new one is cute and pampered, but she often reminds me of how special Biodog really was. That, too, is part of the grieving.
We all talk openly about new dog vs. Biodog, how much we miss him, how silly new dog is, and how hard it has been to adjust. We deal with it on a pretty regular basis, modeling the truth that grief isn't something you get over or moves past on a timely schedule. Biodog is a part of our lives forever, and new dog is finding her place with us. That's how you do it: one day at a time, with more honesty and tears than society says we should. I hope this helps.
Quote from: polly_mer on October 25, 2019, 04:26:59 AM
I have been voluntold by my manager that I'm spending next week in a communications workshop. Since confidentiality and prudence based on who else is in that workshop mean I can't use my real work, I plan to use best practices in science outreach as my project for the workshop. If anyone raises an eyebrow, then I've already got bookmarked the parts of the strategic plan where "all" employees are supposed to be helping with community relations and pipeline issues.
Take your victories where you can! I commend you for pointing out the flaws in the school's plan and think your workshop ideas sound great, too. Blocky is going to be fine in terms of science exposure, but you have done the other kids at the school a huge favor by asking some pointed questions and getting a few people to rethink things. Round 2 next year should be interesting.....
For those who are curious, the parent-teacher conference on Friday was anticlimactic. The team of three teachers was only a team of two for most of the conference with the science teacher "in the other room talking with another set of parents, sorry!"
The teachers who were there mostly wanted to brag on my kid with a minor concern for him putting his head down to start on the work in front of him instead of participating in the class discussion. It seemed to me that the easy solution there was for Blocky not to have the work available before it was work time, but I dutifully gave Blocky (who was at the conference with us) the pep talk on how paying attention during the discussion and listening to other people's comments and questions is a good habit to cultivate now before the work becomes too hard to do without that help.
Even when the science teacher joined us and I tried to lob a couple softballs, the answers were not encouraging. "The district required" a different set of science units this year so they are behind as a class. In addition, the "hands-on" activities are mostly simulations on a computer for topics that are really easy and safe to do as labs and field trips. It's very clear that, again this year, the person who ended up with the dual hats of science and social studies is great at social studies* and is checking the box on science by deferring to "the district".
*SS units have been very interesting, even second hand and the teacher's face lit up as she described the upcoming unit there.
I am glad that the social studies units are excellent. Having a teacher passionate about the topic is contagious and infects the students. If only we valued teachers enough to properly fund the classrooms AND give teachers TIME to prepare the materials for teaching. Sigh. Someday, the world will work right.
IOW, the main problem is that the 'science' teacher is unqualified, and should not be being asked to do double duty in this way. I'm not sure what the solution is, however...
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 26, 2019, 06:17:52 PM
IOW, the main problem is that the 'science' teacher is unqualified, and should not be being asked to do double duty in this way. I'm not sure what the solution is, however...
The solutions include:
1) refusing to license K-8 teachers who are too weak in any of the five areas (math, reading, social studies, science, writing) beyond mere content knowledge on a test
2) paying our teachers more money for being more proficient in the harder-to-staff areas like math and science
3) providing additional mentoring for newer teachers to help them adjust to the realities of a classroom as well as the realities of school bureaucracy
We bid farewell to IRdog yesterday. It really sucks. IRson (14) is beyond angry. I'm just trying to ride it out and be understanding but I'm a little afraid, frankly. He's always been the fragile/volatile one. IRspouse and daughter seem to share the unhealthy coping mechanism (I feel) of complete repression and want to pretend we never had a dog. It's all very dysfunctional. Argh. So on top of the grief I feel like I've failed as a parent in setting up this messed up family dynamic. :(
I'm sorry, IRhack--that sounds miserable. I hope things get better soon.
Yes, my sympathies as well.
The Dog-to-English thread will have dog-owners who can relate and may have suggestions for coping with the family dynamics as well.
Sadly, letting out pets into our hearts guarantee a certain degree of heartbreak, since we usually survive them.
But we'd be poorer without them, too.
All good thoughts.
M.
Yeah, I picked this thread because the family issues were my top concern. I thought IRson was headed for a full on breakdown this weekend. He was so upset about the dog, and so angry at us. But he is recovering.
In the meantime, if you need to talk about your dog, feel free to head on over there. You probably hurt too.
I had a dream last night that prime backatipup (we have four, but one has been with me the longest and is closest to me) died, and I'm still shaken just by the thought.
Quote from: irhack on November 08, 2019, 07:25:17 AM
We bid farewell to IRdog yesterday. It really sucks. IRson (14) is beyond angry. I'm just trying to ride it out and be understanding but I'm a little afraid, frankly. He's always been the fragile/volatile one. IRspouse and daughter seem to share the unhealthy coping mechanism (I feel) of complete repression and want to pretend we never had a dog. It's all very dysfunctional. Argh. So on top of the grief I feel like I've failed as a parent in setting up this messed up family dynamic. :(
I'm sorry for your loss.
Model the behavior you want them to use. Let them see you crying. Talk out loud about how you are grieving. "When I got home today and IRdog wasn't there to greet me, it hit me all over again."
Your goal isn't to make them grieve with you or in the same way as you. Your goal is to create the space where grieving is normal and talking about it is okay. You can get a picture frame for a collage and dig out some favorite photos, then ask kid x to pick his/her 3 favorites because you want to print them/frame them and hang them in a special spot because you miss IRdog so much. If kid refuses, that's fine. "Okay, let me know if you change your mind and we'll switch the pictures out later." and proceed with the plan.
Do you want to get a stone you put in your yard or by your front door with IRdog's name on it? Ask the family their thoughts as you suggest the idea sometime next month. Do you want to plant a tree/shrub to honor IRdog? Ask for opinions in the spring. Gather up old towels and take them to the local shelter to donate to other dogs in need as a way to honor IRdog. Invite them to come with you, or not. Do they want to make a holiday donation to the local shelter in IRdog's name?
Don't do this all at once, but now and then, over time, as you continue to model that you are grieving, honoring IRdog's memory, and trying to create the spaces where they are invited to grieve with you. When they nag you that you keep bringing it up, shrug and say "I'm grieving on my own timeline and I need you to respect that. I need to talk about IRdog sometimes as part of that process."
They can't stuff it down forever. It may come out as a huge tantrum over a missing T-shirt when you're running late to a dental appointment. It may not be obvious, in the moment, that the meltdown has nothing to do with the shirt, the dentist, or begin late... and everything to do with IRdog. Be prepared for that, too, with as much patience as you can muster and plenty of hugs.
You are not a failure for them all dealing with this in their own ways. They are individuals who are going to respond in ways you may not agree with. All you can do is set the tone that grief is normal, then model what you believe healthy grieving roughly looks like. Recognize that there are other ways to grieve that are still healthy even if they don't match your script.
Hugs.
Bioteacher thank you so much for sharing your wisdom! I really appreciate it. I think we are moving in a healthier direction, talking about the ways we miss her. IRdaughter is doing a portrait of IRdog as part of a school project.We are sad but we are coming together a bit instead of the lashing / shutting down from last week.
So glad to hear it. Shutting down is often how we function in the face of the impossible. It can't last, but it gets us through the immediate crisis period. It sounds like everyone is grieving in their own way, and that's important to remember. As long as you keep processing it somehow, you're going to come out the other side okay. Art is a fantastic way to do that. When Biodog died, I made a list of specific things I wanted to remember about him and invited everyone in the family to contribute to it. Memories fade, but we now have a list of his unique quirks we want to remember. That might be another simple project to do in the next couple of weeks. Hugs to all of you. It's HARD.
Blocky has clearly been visiting less savory parts of the internet since he flat out stated last night before supper, "Why worry about something that's nothing more than a bad cold?" We explained to him some realities of everyone being sick at the same time overloading the medical system and other realities of masses of people who are out of their normal routines and kinda scared. We also explained about disparate effects including his not-in-great-health grandparents for whom a cold is already serious.
After supper, Blocky asked when we thought we might see a Covid-19 case here. I pointed out that we already have a confirmed case in a nearby city from which people commute to my employer daily and that, with my employer hosting people from all over the world as well as having employees who routinely travel all over the world, we already have cases in town, we just don't know it yet.
Blocky went quiet and then asked preparedness questions. Mr. Mer explained that, because we're in a rural, isolated area with only one road into town, Mr. Mer always has weeks of food, bottled water, and other supplies on hand, just in case. Toilet paper was on sale last month so Mr. Mer stocked up as a normal stocking, just like when tissue went on sale the week before that so we have plenty for the next month. It's already cold and flu season so we have shelves of soup and extra of all our preferred over-the-counter medicines.
Later, when the news broke that Blocky's school has been closed for the next three weeks, Blocky asked for soup. I don't know what that means, but it's been interesting here.
How are your youngsters processing or are you tearing your hair out for other reasons, like my colleague who came home one day this week to find her kid stuck on their roof?
Hey, can I come over for some soup, too? I can contribute a loaf of home-baked bread.
Here the K-12 districts have not shut down yet but they are on the verge of it. There are going to be a lot of parents trying to figure out child care.
I'm about to email my students' parents to say I'm available for added lessons and tutoring over the next two weeks.
All the nearby elementary schools are closed for that long, at least, for deep cleaning, and possibly longer; the town just closed the libraries, too....
M.
Bioson's college cancelled graduation on March 27th. We are still going over on the 26th to load the van and bring him home from his apartment. We knew this was coming, but it's tough. He's graduating at the top of his class in automotive tech and also has an associate's degree in business. He's visiting my parent's this weekend (his first road trip in his own car) and that has taken some of the sting out of it.
Bioette's school cancelled the second weekend of the musical which was supposed to run yesterday and today. Then they closed the school for 2 weeks starting on Monday. The biggest blow has been the cancellation of the orchestra's trip to Chicago. She's been saving money for a year, working as a soccer ref in the fall, and really looking forward to the orchestra's first overnight trip. No idea if we'll get any of that $1000 back. The Tekko convention she has also saved money for attending will most likely be cancelled this coming Monday. No idea how a refund on that ticket will work, either. Summer camps at her riding barn and girl scouts may or may not go forward. It's too soon to even predict, but she knows she might lose those, too.
Bioson is looking forward to being home and since the school is still going to have a private ceremony for students and staff on the 26th, seems to be holding his own. Bioette is doing her best to rally. Having two scientist parents who have talked about this stuff until she can't bear it any more had her forewarned, but the final decisions are always tough to swallow. She plans to have a couple of friends over tomorrow. We're letting them hang out unless/until someone shows symptoms. She knows if any of us gets sick, we're on total lock down quarantine mode.
Biodad's workplace is prepared to shut down the labs and have people do the available computer work from home. He's resigned.
I've been battling HR and stirring the pot at work trying to get the two 100% computer and phone work departments at my pharmacy shifted to work from home. So far, I'm getting all sorts of excuses as to why they "can't" and no answers beyond "regulations" as to why they won't try. But we're free to take 2 weeks of PTO if we're worried. Not that any of us HAVE 2 weeks of PTO on our balance sheets. So I'm going to continue going into the office and surrounding myself with people who are hacking up their lungs b/c none of us can afford to call off.
The dog? She is thrilled to have us here. She's the winner in all this. The next month is going to be rough.
My kid, now a high school senior, is a fairly smart kid who has a lot of intellectual interests — he reads avidly, he's well travelled, he knows international politics, art history, Classical history, African history, etc. But he has various learning problems which means his schooling has been a disaster. I genuinely believe that he has never turned in an assignment on time in his entire life. Usually he forgets the assignment as soon as it's given out. If reminded of it, he begins it and then forgets it. If reminded to finish it, he finishes it and then loses it. If made to find it, he takes it to school in his backpack every day for two weeks in a row, forgets to turn it in, and then loses it again. If made to submit it online, he can't find the right page to submit it to. And so on. That's if he's done it in the first place. Usually he puts it out his mind and decides that doing it is less interesting than not doing it. He sets new land speed records in lack of motivation.
In the course of this we have been through umpteen different kinds and dosages of medication, three educational psychologists, endless school counselors and teachers, and every effort I can think of.
Everyone agrees that he is a well-adjusted, easy-going guy. The downside of his perpetual sunny optimism is that he seems to lack the capacity to be alarmed about any of this. "I just assume it will work out somehow," he says cheerfully. I keep threatening that at some stage, being chronically late, unprepared, and simply failing to do the work will no longer get him where he wants to go. It seemed as if things were about to come to a head, with a raft of unfinished assignments which were going to keep him from graduating from high school. "Oh, it will work out," he kept saying, as he continued to not do them.
Who could have predicted that a worldwide pandemic would mean that his high school would declare that all students will pass this year without further work? That certainly wasn't an "out" I would have predicted.
The next question is what to do with next year. His dream career is unfortunately one that involves a college degree. (His heart is set on being a kindergarten teacher, and he would be a fabulous one. He has a lot of experience working with little kids, and several courses on child development.) He was going to take a gap year and go to a foreign country where we have connections and work as an au pair. I don't think that's going to be possible in the current conditions. When I mention taking online courses from the local community college, he looks as if I've proposed torture on the rack.
So my dilemma is: how to take a useful gap year under semi-lockdown? I am in several vulnerable health categories, so I'm worried about him having a job while living at home. And I'm not convinced he's mature and organized enough to live entirely on his own.
Any ideas on useful gap year staycations? I'm flummoxed.
Can your kid get involved with some of the virtual day camps for smalls?
Those should still have similar employment expectations of getting paperwork completed and submitted in a timely manner and showing up prepared to the daily activities.
It may not be all that comforting, but I know many people who have it work out enough that they just go through life a day late and a dollar short. It's been almost 30 years since we met in college for many of those folks and most of them didn't graduate. I have been given a hard time for most of those thirty years for continuing my education and moving for jobs that use my education when we could have just stayed put and gotten a series of kinda crappy jobs that are good enough to get by for now and no big loss if one gets fired for underperformance.
At more than one point, my husband asked why we were moving all over when we could have just stayed put and been lower-middle-class surrounded by our college friends in a slowly-dying-but-probably-not-going-to-be-dead-in-the-next-20-years town. Now that the bottom has dropped out of the economy and we're in a position that we're probably fine, even if lockdown lasts for six months, Mr. Mer has come around to the idea that "it'll work out" for just day-to-day living isn't a great long-term plan, even if it has been working for some of our friends well into middle age.
Quote from: Hegemony on April 24, 2020, 12:40:54 AM
My kid
[. . .]
Probably not what you want to hear, but all the folks with personalities like this whom I knew in college were in ROTC and went into the military. They needed someone else to direct their lives for them.
I like the virtual camp staff idea.
Hegemony, if he's already been thinking about being an au pair, would he be interested in/willing to take that job for a somewhat more local family, as a live-in? I'll bet that increasing numbers of professional parents, working from home and anxious about both home schooling & maintaining their own productivity, will be more open to that than before, if they have space (and who's having guests right now?). He'd live away, keeping you safe, but still be able to stay on your insurance, visit online, etc., but navigate life away from home.
Your kid and mine would be great friends, although wellkid has mostly figured out the turning-stuff-in bit, at least a lot of the time, and he's thinking about becoming a high school teacher. He's supposed to be doing a staff apprentice program at his summer camp this year, but I'm just waiting for that to be cancelled, too.
Anyone started the PTO/PTA at the school?
Our public school system has officially split into the 'real' schools (officially all online for an indefinite future, but hybrid when the first set of conditions are met and then fully in-person when the second set of conditions are met) and the k-8 all-online school, which is brand-spanking new as of today.
The new online school has no PTO/PTA. However, I am on the list for the 'real' middle school PTO because all that information was acquired in February for planning purposes. Nothing was done to address splitting students or otherwise dealing with the bazillion changes to the automated systems (e.g., Blocky is enrolled for zero classes per last night's middle school email, but he owes fees and picked up his Chromebook and textbooks from the physical middle school).
Thus, the discussion at tonight's 'real' middle school PTO was what happens for those of us with students in the online school because the middle school classes are being taught by employees of the 'real' middle school and the students are being supported by mostly the 'real' middle school staff.
The middle school principal was sure the online school is a permanent fixture, not just a stop-gap for this year. While it's likely we can just support the middle school people this year, now the bigger discussion has been how to set up for success in the long term.
Quote from: irhack on August 27, 2019, 07:40:17 AM
Quote from: sylvie on August 27, 2019, 06:58:14 AM
This is why the disadvantage of being a first-generation college student can't be overstated. I am a first-generation academic, and STILL feel this lack in my life. (By the way, I'm making sure my kids have the above advantages as well).
100% this. First gen for every aspect of higher education. I was behind from the start because my mom didn't even finish high school and my dad only had a high school education. My parents still don't understand what bachelor, master, and doctoral degrees entail, despite my attempts to explain.
I'm in the same boat and Polly's post made my head spin, but it's clear the other families in our school district are operating on those terms. They're just totally unfamiliar to me.
My apologies if this has been discussed previously or in another thread but does anyone have any experience trying to mediate between a teenager and an athletic coach?
My 13 year old daughter has become more and more upset with her volleyball coach - she feels that she is being targeted for criticism and that the criticism is vague and not specific, e.g. 'your not hustling, you are out of position'. When she asks where she should be, she says the coach only says, "you're a libero, you know where you should be." My daughter loves her teammates and enjoys volleyball. But, she is considering quitting because she says she is scared of the coach.
My wife and I have requested a meeting with the coach. I am guessing that such a meeting would be similar to a parent teacher meeting when there is an issue between the student and teacher. But if anyone has insights into athletic coaches in such situations, I'd be interested. Her coach is an older woman (60's?) and this is a club team. My daughter is a good player but not a star - she is the starter on the club team. My daughter can come across as aloof - she is not a natural cheerleader nor is she the all out hustler on the team. She is understandably anxious about our upcoming meeting with the coach. Any advice appreciated.
Any possibility that your daughter has any spatial recognition issues?
I had a dance student once who did fine if I showed her a picture of the stage space and her trajectories on it, but couldn't follow either verbal cues, or the usual demonstration/run-through one uses to mark out a dance path.
It might be worthwhile to ask her how her position's location is supposed to look on paper, and the spaces into which she is or is not supposed to move.
She might think she's helping "cover" a ball that is just out of range of a neighboring teammate, but in fact is leaving her own space open to attack by someone who sees her tendency to wander and aims their shots for her "spot" as a good thing for them (the courts used to be sort-of subdivided, when I was subbing for the gym classes a few years ago, anyway. Simple strategies meant three-up, three-back, but there were other rotations possible, like moving into the center or going back deep if a server were known to put the ball just ahead of the line...)
Maybe start first with the term "libero" (I've never heard it before, but I only taught elementary kids when I did this) and find out what your daughter thinks it means, and what she thinks she's supposed to do if that's her designation, and then in the meeting confirm that with the coach?
Or maybe look it up, perhaps a site on volleyball could elucidate the issue?
It can be a bit maddening if a player keeps wandering into another player's zone...but there must be some way to arrive at reasonable communication about it.
M.
Thanks Mamselle. We had a 20 minute Zoom meeting with coach, daughter and parents. I would have preferred face to face but scheduling didn't allow it. It was helpful for everyone to talk. The coach agreed she loses her cool more often with our daughter than she would like. Part of it is that our daughter hasn't played the position until this Jan.
You may be interested to know that libero is a volleyball position. If you watch volleyball, it's the
person wearing a different color top. I think it came from France meaning 'free player?' The libero is purely a defensive player responsible for digs. It is pretty specialized and the coach acknowledged she forgets that our daughter is new to the position.
Anyway, good for everyone to talk about frustrations and brainstorm on how player/coach interactions can be improved.
Oh, thanks for the definition.
I used to love to do digs. Never heard it called that, but we were pretty lo-tech!
Glad it looks as if it might be working out.
M.
I'm feeling beyond exhausted, mentally, and I think my wife feels the same. Our toddler was potentially exposed to covid at school (his teacher and a classmate tested positive), so we're all staying home. Thankfully we all appear to be healthy and I tested negative on an antigen test today. But of course it's still stressful, not least because my wife isn't boosted (booster not available to her in this shitty location). Plus, we're both sleep-deprived because our toddler doesn't sleep through the night, regularly waking us up multiple times a night - so we've been sleep deprived basically for over two years now. Against this background of stress, our toddler's behavior today was beyond awful. Everything from testing boundaries on things like not being allowed to play with the stove and not being allowed to bang on glass and basically every safety rule imaginable to throwing tantrums over anything and everything. I looked after him while my wife went to take a pcr test and it was a non-stop tantrum while she was gone. All this while I've been trying to get some work done.
So I'm stressed out, exhausted and kind of feeling like a failure as a parent. I love him to pieces, but I feel at the end of my rope. His behavior is far worse when it's just us (and worst of all when it's just one of us) than when there's anyone else around or than when he's in school, so on top of everything else we don't feel believed by anyone else except maybe his pediatrician, because school, grandparents, etc experience a much better behaved child.
Sounds like family counseling might help.
It's possible you're miscuing or hyper-cuing each other--i.e. the toddler interprets things one way and goes off on them, while you're (both, as parents, or even individually) sending signals you think are clear, but are ambiguous to your child--who, if still not completely verbal--can't check out the misunderstanding, and so becomes more confused and frustrated as well.
It's also possible there's some degree of hearing loss, or delayed hearing, or hearing range limitation that's adding to the static between the three of you, Process management issues could also add to that type of confusion.
I teach or have taught students with some of these issues; one in particular also has some brain chemistry imbalances that, once diagnosed and correctly prescribed for, became more manageable and revealed a really bright kid who'd been terrified of all sorts of things because they didn't make sense to him, and was acting out of those (completely ungrounded, but very real to him) fears.
In all cases, there might be parenting adjustments to be made, but if this has been continuing for awhile, and you've tried various approaches, it may be useful to get some support, both for the family unit (is this the only child?) and individually.
If you've been caught in this maelstrom, it's not likely to be all your own doing, and individual counseling might also be helpful, at least to support you while you're trying to figure out what, if any, background or foreground changes might help you each towards better accommodating each others' needs and finding love, and not just frustration, in your close relationships.
No-one is born knowing how best to parent; I've often thought the New Zealand plan of parenting centers that help.people figure it out with support from the outset make good sense.
All good thoughts, and hopes that you find a path towards peace.
M.
I'm going to push back a little and remind everyone that it's part of a toddler's job to test boundaries. And they are most likely to test boundaries with the people they know and trust (which one kind of hopes are their parents). It's incredibly common for kids that age to be much better behaved at school, with grandparents etc than they are in private at home, because they don't know what might happen if they test boundaries with non-parents.
To me, Stockmann's experience sounds like a stressed and unhappy toddler (cooped up in the house, covid keeps throwing rocks at stable schedules and expectations, not sleeping because they are about to make some developmental breakthrough) acting out their frustrations in the only way available to them: testing boundaries and melting down around the people they trust most. The kid is two or three, right? I think many of the things mamselle brings up would affect behavior everywhere, not just at home.
You can try to make some adjustments to your parenting or routine (one thing that might help is getting the kid to run around outside more if you're not somewhere that's currently having a blizzard) but at this age many issues go away because the kid grew out of it, not because you changed anything. Set boundaries and keep them (kids find that comforting because it provides structure to their world even when they test those boundaries), and obviously chat with your pediatrician about any concerns you have. But if it helps at all, everything you describe sounds well within the limits of normal given the challenges of parenting a toddler during these times. You always love them, but sometimes they aren't particularly likeable!
Stockmann, is the little one cutting teeth (or getting ready to have a new one start coming in)? Is a growth spurt due? Either/both of those things could unleash pure hell's fire at our house when our girls were in their 2's and 3's.
And yes, being hell on wheels at home and little angels everywhere else is pretty common.
Sending hugs and (remembered) commiserations to Mom and Dad!