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Started by bacardiandlime, January 30, 2020, 03:20:28 PM

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marshwiggle

Quote from: apl68 on July 23, 2020, 07:20:23 AM
Quote from: evil_physics_witchcraft on July 23, 2020, 04:15:26 AM
Quote from: Hegemony on July 23, 2020, 01:03:00 AM
In answer to the last question, it's thought that at least some in-person classroom experience is more engaging than none, and universities are all desperate to retain students. In addition, being required to come to class sometimes, even if only once a month, means students will move to campus instead of taking their courses from their parents' house. A huge part of university funding comes from the housing and the food service. Without that revenue, many colleges simply won't survive, and even the ones that do will take a huge financial hit. Hence the desperate plans to get students physically back on campus.

Right. Housing = Money.

That's an awful lot of money for living on campus under quarantine and attending class on 1/4 of the time.  Sure doesn't sound like a good deal to me.  How many students will find it worthwhile?

Especially given that for the other 3/4 of the time on campus, they're still subject to virtually the same risk of covid due to being around so many people, just without the classes.

"Almost all the risk! Almost none of the classes!"

Can't wait to see that on ads.

It takes so little to be above average.

clean

QuoteAnother faculty member told me that they are going to 1/4 face to face instead of 1/2. So, students will be physically present in classes about once a month. Does this make any sense to anyone?

Quote
That's an awful lot of money for living on campus under quarantine and attending class on 1/4 of the time.  Sure doesn't sound like a good deal to me.  How many students will find it worthwhile?

Local news had an interview with an incoming freshman who was had called the TV station to report/complain that he was unable to get out of his student housing contract!  He is a freshman and I believe that we have a requirement that freshman live on campus, even though he lives only 40 miles or so from campus.  As a lot of classes have gone hybrid, he wanted to stay home, in part because he said that he could not trust that his dorm mate(s) would follow social distancing and not be partying it up and risking HIS health.

The university president gave a weeny response.  She said that the university is looking into it, but that the housing is managed by a company in the state capital.  .... Hmmmm...  I am not positive, but I would not be surprised that the university OWNS the buildings (built on university property just a few years ago). Im not sure that the managers of student housing are not an arm of the university system (a common location running student housing on all campuses?).  (I dont know who manages the housing, but as I said, I think we own it)

Except that we DONT own it!  Those buildings were not built for CASH!  I would certainly not be surprised that the university in on the hook for the debt!  (It would not surprise me that another company built the buildings, gets a large share of the money from that, but that the debt is some sort of tax exempt debt backed/issued by the university!  SO if no students are there to pay the interest, WE STILL have to pay the interest from our budget. 

So the bottom line is that it is all about the money!  IF the students dont pay, then remember that the biggest expense a university faces is faculty salaries! 

So the circle looks like this:  Faculty want to live, so insist on online delivery (so dont need to pay for parking either).  Students dont want 'dorm living' for online delivery, so they stay home.  NO dorm rent (or parking fees), means that the university has to furlough or flat fire faculty and staff to pay for the dorm (and parking garage) debt. 

Be careful what you ask for!  It IS about the money!   
Big fish eat little fish. NO little fish and the big fish starve!   (Alternatively, Dung beetles depend on dung.  NO dung producers, dung beetles starve). 
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader

spork

Yes, a lot of, if not most, dorm construction is financed by bond debt.
It's terrible writing, used to obfuscate the fact that the authors actually have nothing to say.

Caracal

Quote from: apl68 on July 23, 2020, 07:20:23 AM
Quote from: evil_physics_witchcraft on July 23, 2020, 04:15:26 AM
Quote from: Hegemony on July 23, 2020, 01:03:00 AM
In answer to the last question, it's thought that at least some in-person classroom experience is more engaging than none, and universities are all desperate to retain students. In addition, being required to come to class sometimes, even if only once a month, means students will move to campus instead of taking their courses from their parents' house. A huge part of university funding comes from the housing and the food service. Without that revenue, many colleges simply won't survive, and even the ones that do will take a huge financial hit. Hence the desperate plans to get students physically back on campus.

Right. Housing = Money.

That's an awful lot of money for living on campus under quarantine and attending class on 1/4 of the time.  Sure doesn't sound like a good deal to me.  How many students will find it worthwhile?

I know everyone feels frustrated and anxious, but is there really a need for quite so much angry cynicism which doesn't attempt to understand some of the differing motivations of students or the complexity of the situation?

Many students might prefer to live on campus. For some, it could be the only safe option available. Others, even if their situations are less dire, might have a much easier time taking classes while living away from family. Living with family could actually put some students at high risk of being infected if their families can't simply work from home. Living on campus certainly might mean that students are less likely to infect people in their families who might be at higher risk. This stuff is complicated and not everything is down to the greed and evil of college administrators.

downer

It's a fair point that most admininstrators are acting in good faith and are doing the best given the constraints put on them. Even in cases where schools are forcing faculty to return to the classrooms against their own preferences, the worst that administrators can be accused of is just not recognizing the rights of the faculty and not caring about their concerns. Although a lot of them are paid well, rarely are they in it just for personal profit. If they were, they would pursue jobs in higher paying areas.

Nevertheless, I still think it is true that decisions are basically about the money. Most colleges are in a precarious financial situation and in many cases it's clear that the school may not survive. Administrators are put in difficult positions trying to keep their schools viable, but they can't say that's why they are making the decisions they are, because that would just scare students and parents away.



"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

mamselle

This is from the beginning of the situation, but it was an interesting read, I found.

   https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/exodus-from-cambridge/

What struck me was something someone else mentioned recently, the fact that students seem to be actively curating their 'college experience,' deciding where they'd like to return to for dinners out, how they'd like to shape their social circles, etc, more intentionally, almost like a work of conceptual art.

I was mostly just interested in getting to class (by bike from my folks home, at first, or walking, later, after I moved to a shared church-based rooming house on campus), getting my school work done and in on time, and teaching my dance and music students and performing my playing jobs (which I'd started to do once out of high school) properly.

But the student's journalling of the departure from her school was an interesting one.

M.
Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Reprove not a scorner, lest they hate thee: rebuke the wise, and they will love thee.

Give instruction to the wise, and they will be yet wiser: teach the just, and they will increase in learning.

Anselm

Can anyone fill us in on how other nations are handling school and the pandemic? 
I am Dr. Thunderdome and I run Bartertown.

Parasaurolophus

Quote from: Anselm on July 23, 2020, 11:13:08 AM
Can anyone fill us in on how other nations are handling school and the pandemic?

In this province, students in elementary and middle school (whatever that is; we didn't have it, where I come from) are currently looking at a full return (they went back part-time in June). AFAIK high school is still looking mostly/all online. But all the details--including distancing, masking, etc.--are still being ironed out.

And our case and death rates have been flat for months, and are pretty low period, although re-opening has resulted in some spiking.
I know it's a genus.

Morden

Our province is planning for face to face in fall for K-12, but doesn't plan to give any more money to school boards for extra cleaning, PPE etc. So we'll see how long that lasts.

apl68

Quote from: mamselle on July 23, 2020, 11:06:51 AM
This is from the beginning of the situation, but it was an interesting read, I found.

   https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/exodus-from-cambridge/

What struck me was something someone else mentioned recently, the fact that students seem to be actively curating their 'college experience,' deciding where they'd like to return to for dinners out, how they'd like to shape their social circles, etc, more intentionally, almost like a work of conceptual art.

I was mostly just interested in getting to class (by bike from my folks home, at first, or walking, later, after I moved to a shared church-based rooming house on campus), getting my school work done and in on time, and teaching my dance and music students and performing my playing jobs (which I'd started to do once out of high school) properly.

But the student's journalling of the departure from her school was an interesting one.

M.

One more story of the Plague Year, out of untold millions.  Happier than many.

When I was at college I naively supposed that I was there to attend school.  My parents actually had to tell me to get more involved on campus.  And they were right to do so.

As for the eating out experiences...well, let's just say that one of the biggest excitements I recall on campus during my four years there was the news that a Taco Bell was opening only five miles away.
All we like sheep have gone astray
We have each turned to his own way
And the Lord has laid upon him the guilt of us all

ciao_yall

Quote from: Morden on July 23, 2020, 01:03:02 PM
Our province is planning for face to face in fall for K-12, but doesn't plan to give any more money to school boards for extra cleaning, PPE etc. So we'll see how long that lasts.

Our K-12 district can't afford to open in the Fall because they can't afford portable sinks, soap, and paper towels needed to maintain hygiene.

So they got a huge donation from one of the local tech godzillionaires for laptops and wifi hotspots.

What is wrong with this picture?

Parasaurolophus

Quote from: ciao_yall on July 23, 2020, 01:30:51 PM

Our K-12 district can't afford to open in the Fall because they can't afford portable sinks, soap, and paper towels needed to maintain hygiene.

So they got a huge donation from one of the local tech godzillionaires for laptops and wifi hotspots.

What is wrong with this picture?

Lurking mothracites?
I know it's a genus.

mythbuster

Our Uni has created some online COVID-19 training module that EVERYONE- students, faculty, staff etc. must complete before the start of the semester. They rolled it out to faculty yesterday.

Now it's crashed. Apparently it won't let in any faculty that aren't teaching a summer class. So they tried to fix it and now it won't let in faculty who ARE teaching a summer class.

This is going to go so well!
The faculty Zoom town hall tomorrow afternoon should be a good one.
I'm so glad all my classes are online. I'll just sit here in my home office until 2021.

writingprof

I suspect that many students have a different motive for returning to campus, as follows: 

Quote from: Caracal on July 23, 2020, 10:05:36 AM
Many students might prefer to live on campus. For some, it could be the only safe option availableplace to get laid regularly. Others, even if their situations are less dire, might have a much easier time taking classes getting laid while living away from family. Living with family could actually put some students at high risk of being infected if their families can't simply work from homegetting laid less often. Living on campus certainly might mean that students are less likely to infect people in their families who might be at higher riskabstain from getting laid. This stuff is complicated and not everything is down to the greed and evil of college administrators.

Those college years don't last forever.

evil_physics_witchcraft

Quote from: writingprof on July 23, 2020, 01:50:52 PM
I suspect that many students have a different motive for returning to campus, as follows: 

Quote from: Caracal on July 23, 2020, 10:05:36 AM
Many students might prefer to live on campus. For some, it could be the only safe option availableplace to get laid regularly. Others, even if their situations are less dire, might have a much easier time taking classes getting laid while living away from family. Living with family could actually put some students at high risk of being infected if their families can't simply work from homegetting laid less often. Living on campus certainly might mean that students are less likely to infect people in their families who might be at higher riskabstain from getting laid. This stuff is complicated and not everything is down to the greed and evil of college administrators.

Those college years don't last forever.

Ha!