Is this common in universities and community colleges in North America?

Started by hamburger, August 24, 2019, 10:49:50 AM

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the_geneticist

Don't let small mistakes on their part (forgetting a pen) upset you so much.  They will figure it out.
Just because a students asks for something NOW (emails at 3:00am, wants a review session now, etc.) doesn't mean you have to respond right away.  I don't answer emails at 3:00am because I'm asleep.  If they want a review, tell them you're happy to chat about specific questions during your office hours.
If the policy is that a medical note = excused from class, just enforce the policy consistently and fairly.  That's all you can do.  If a student turns in several, just email your chair to ask for advice.

It sounds like you are very upset.  I get the frustration.  I'm going to share the best teaching advice I got:

"You can only teach the students you have, not the students you wish you had"

P.S. students are saying that they can just download answers to your assignments, you need to write new assignments.

downer

Quote from: the_geneticist on August 29, 2019, 11:45:06 AM
I'm going to share the best teaching advice I got:

"You can only teach the students you have, not the students you wish you had"


I agree with the_geneticist with the major points, but not on this one. Having been given the same advice, I've resisted it. When I get students who lack basic skills and cheat, I fail them. Let other professors who have reputations for being accommodating teach them. Generally, after a few semesters, I end up getting more of the students I want.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

Ruralguy

Yes, but are you being fair to your colleagues and the rest of the students, Downer?

I have  colleagues who are like what you are implying and their sections are always avoided. Some of us are teaching as many *total* students as they have in one class!  I know that some of the other professors are doing the opposite---bribing with high grades and lenient policies, but I think its part of our job to be fair and appropriately adjust expectations. Or at least be willing to accept that you'll have a number of dullard D students who will stumble through your class, perhaps grumpily, but then pass and (maybe) qualify for graduation, according to the sorts of rules all of us agree to before taking a faculty job.

downer

I have seen situations where professors or whole departments complained about other professors who gave all A and B grades, and always had full classes. The complaint was that these professors were stealing enrollment from other people, and thus making life more difficult and sometimes professors with stricter standards had difficulty making load.

I've never heard the lenient professors complain that they are getting the bad students because other professors grade too hard and give too much work, and are driving the bad students to their classes. But I guess it is theoretically possible that someone might make that complaint.

Maybe there is something to be said for a department to have consistent standards across the board. It seems like a good idea. But it does not happen much. It is a "herding cats" problem. Everyone teaches in their own way.

If there was a perceived problem about a lack of consistency across classes and there was a will to address it, I'd be open to being in the conversation. That hasn't happened in my experience.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

Juvenal

Quote from: Ruralguy on August 29, 2019, 01:06:11 PM
Yes, but are you being fair to your colleagues and the rest of the students, Downer?

I have  colleagues who are like what you are implying and their sections are always avoided. Some of us are teaching as many *total* students as they have in one class!  I know that some of the other professors are doing the opposite---bribing with high grades and lenient policies, but I think its part of our job to be fair and appropriately adjust expectations. Or at least be willing to accept that you'll have a number of dullard D students who will stumble through your class, perhaps grumpily, but then pass and (maybe) qualify for graduation, according to the sorts of rules all of us agree to before taking a faculty job.

Strongly agree with this POV.  I sometimes think--I adjunct an 8 a.m. class--"Another day, another dullard."  And then it's "show time" and I perk right up and do what I think is "my best."  But that's only a single evaluative data point...
Cranky septuagenarian

Ruralguy

Oops...sorry, I meant to say of course that the low enrollment profs had as many people total as I have in one class, not the other way around.

hamburger

Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
OP. You have minimal control over other people. My guess is that you would be unhappy wherever you are with your current approach.

Try reading the Stoics. That might help.

Any good recommendation?

downer

Quote from: hamburger on August 29, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
OP. You have minimal control over other people. My guess is that you would be unhappy wherever you are with your current approach.

Try reading the Stoics. That might help.

Any good recommendation?

This is a helpful webpage: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism-a-definition-3-stoic-exercises-to-get-you-started/
Move on from there.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

hamburger

Quote from: Ruralguy on August 29, 2019, 09:25:39 AM
The last several posts really get to the point: I think the OP may be making a bad situation worse.

Some 4 year colleges might be a little better in terms of general student commitment and adherence to values; however, I think you'd see some elements of these issues everywhere. OP and others  have to learn some coping strategies and not accelerate every student complaint. Calming down angry folks is key. Generally being pleasant and accepting without being a pushover is also key.

You are right. I am still upset about a student complaining me three weeks ago. He is in 1st year and sent nasty email questioning my academic qualifications! He also said that he paid to come to this CC and he was not going to search for information himself, I had to do it for him. He asked if I know how to do the homework myself. I studied very hard, went to top schools and devoted my life to get a PhD. Yet, some of these CC students (especially in 1st and 2nd years) keep stepping on me because they consider themselves as customers. 

I was introduced to a senior colleague who has taught here for 30 years. When he heard that I got complaints from students. The first thing he said was that I must be a good professor. Otherwise, students would not have complained about me. He then kept complaining that each year students get worse and worse, more and more students feeling entitled, students are used to complaining since high schools that let them to graduate regardless, etc.

How not to get my life from being sucked into unhappiness caused by these students? Regardless of the number of courses I teach each semester, I tend to just spend almost all the time thinking about these students and lose energy to do research, enjoy life and look for the next job, etc.  My very short summer holiday is ending. During my holiday, I went to school to explain to my hiring manager what happened, sent emails to the Chair and a Coordinator about students wanting to see how I marked their papers, and prepare for courses starting next week. It is not really a holiday. 

hamburger

Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 02:42:35 PM
Quote from: hamburger on August 29, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
OP. You have minimal control over other people. My guess is that you would be unhappy wherever you are with your current approach.

Try reading the Stoics. That might help.

Any good recommendation?

Thanks.
This is a helpful webpage: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism-a-definition-3-stoic-exercises-to-get-you-started/
Move on from there.

downer

Quote from: hamburger on August 29, 2019, 02:58:55 PMDuring my holiday, I went to school to explain to my hiring manager what happened, sent emails to the Chair and a Coordinator about students wanting to see how I marked their papers, and prepare for courses starting next week. It is not really a holiday.

You seem to be close to realizing that you made a mistake here, but you are not quite there yet.

Prioritize your own needs. Stay sane. Take holidays. Don't work on the weekends. Do what is good for you. Everything else comes after that.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

apl68

Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
OP. You have minimal control over other people. My guess is that you would be unhappy wherever you are with your current approach.

Try reading the Stoics. That might help.

Or maybe the New Testament.
See, your King is coming to you, just and bringing salvation, gentle and lowly, and riding upon a donkey.

hamburger

Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 02:42:35 PM
Quote from: hamburger on August 29, 2019, 02:31:09 PM
Quote from: downer on August 29, 2019, 10:11:31 AM
OP. You have minimal control over other people. My guess is that you would be unhappy wherever you are with your current approach.

Try reading the Stoics. That might help.

Any good recommendation?

This is a helpful webpage: https://dailystoic.com/what-is-stoicism-a-definition-3-stoic-exercises-to-get-you-started/
Move on from there.

I am surrounded by students who drag me down. I don't even have a brief summer holiday. When I go back to school, I have to meet with those who complained about me to explain to them how I marked their papers. If they are not happy, they file a formal complaint against me. A student has already threatened me. They do not have the brain nor studied hard. Why I have to waste my brief holiday time to discuss with administrators about them and also meet with them to handle their complaints when the school starts? Meanwhile, I have to waste my time to make arrangement for those who decided not to write the final exams to come back to write the exam and mark their papers. At the same time, I have to prepare for teaching new courses. Yes, each semester I get to teach new courses so I need time for preparations. All these are unpaid work. Students can say nasty things directly to professors and post on the internet with name specified to destroy our reputations. Yet, we cannot do the same thing to them. Why higher education created this unfair situation? As far as I know, if a student wants to appeal, they have to pay for a service fee first. Is this all about profit earning?

Ruralguy

Making students pay extra to file a complaint is really inappropriate.

Dismal

It isn't unusual for students to want to understand their grades.  But you can tell them when you are available to meet, which should be when the new semester starts or when you plan to be in your office before then.   If the course grade is based on a number of assignments, then using the online grading system with Canvas, Blackboard, etc. can help them understand their grades.