The Fora: A Higher Education Community

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Myword on June 29, 2020, 07:15:36 AM

Title: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Myword on June 29, 2020, 07:15:36 AM
Do you ever post a question or make comments on internet forums related to your field?
Not much in physical sciences.
Many general forums have a section for different subjects from a to z. Non academic amateurs post there. From my experience, they are not academic or know about academic research or ideas. They will try to rebut or question issues about your field that are obviously true. Some are smart, some naive and unsophisticated. Is this a waste of time?  Of course, they don't know I am a professional.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: mamselle on June 29, 2020, 07:44:59 AM
If such a thing existed in any of the fields I work with (only really in a couple of situations), I might post a single corrective entry to something egregious (like the ballet forums that do a nice number in anorexia/bulemia denial by inventing the most amazing circumlocutions, for example) but I wouldn't be drawn in.

If factual input doesn't sink in on a first reading, it's not likely to do so after several iterations of the same thing.

And face it, many people are more wedded to being argumentative than to learning anything.

Not that we see anything like that on this forum, of course...

M.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Parasaurolophus on June 29, 2020, 08:24:20 AM
There used to be such a forum for undergrads in my field. It's now defunct, however.

If I knew of one, I would. But I don't, so I don't. And I'm definitely not going to post in Reddit threads. I hate the interface.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: downer on June 29, 2020, 08:41:44 AM
Reddit is the worst.

I haven't seen any internet forums for any academic areas.

I'm not sure if there is much of a distinction between an internet forum and a bulletin board, but I rarely see any internet forums. Bulletin boards are more common. I do find some forums in my areas when I do an internet search, but I have zero temption to get involved in them.

I have been pleasantly impressed by contributions to quora.com, and I can imagine contributing there.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: mamselle on June 29, 2020, 10:03:44 AM
OH, I meant to ask, what happened after the Grad Cafe was re-directed?

Did another forum spring up in its place?

Or did the new iteration just take over?

I never visited it but recall hearing of it on the old forum...

M.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Parasaurolophus on June 29, 2020, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: mamselle on June 29, 2020, 10:03:44 AM
OH, I meant to ask, what happened after the Grad Cafe was re-directed?

Did another forum spring up in its place?

Or did the new iteration just take over?

I never visited it but recall hearing of it on the old forum...

M.

It's still there. Seems slower than it was, but I might be wrong about that.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on June 29, 2020, 12:49:58 PM
Quote from: Myword on June 29, 2020, 07:15:36 AM
Do you ever post a question or make comments on internet forums related to your field?

Just here.

I follow some useful social media accounts and subscribe to various listservs.

I used participate a lot in a specific listserv because that was incredibly useful on sharing problems with non-commercial software.  That group was not friendly to the complete novices who showed no evidence of having done the relevant background reading.  People who had new, interesting problems with evidence of having tried standard things were welcomed much more warmly than people who clearly weren't doing the homework first before asking a question.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Hibush on June 29, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
ResearchGate allows comments on articles. It's not terribly popular, but seems like a good outlet.

I have tried it a few times, but it hasn't generated followup. I hope it catches on. It's not as forward as commenting on the original journal site, though some allow that as well.

ne comment I felt compelled to make was when somebody cited my paper titled "Colonial baskets contain no willow", to support the statement that colonists wove willow baskets. I get that people only read the abstract of papers the cite sometimes, but if they can't make it through the title when I intentionally made it a simple declarative sentence, that's too much.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on June 29, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
I have a ResearchGate account, but it's been all but worthless to me.  The discussions weren't even interesting the first month.

Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Puget on June 29, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
 
Quote from: polly_mer on June 29, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
I have a ResearchGate account, but it's been all but worthless to me.  The discussions weren't even interesting the first month.

I use ResearchGate to share my papers and see who is citing them (in addition to google scholar), but have never commented on papers or looked at any discussion there-- I don't think it really gets used for that, at least not in my field. It's much more like google scholar than like a social media/discussion platform, whatever the original ambitions. I do get a fair number of requests for papers that are still embargoed on PMC (you can store them privately there and then send them to the requester, so you aren't violating copyright rules)-- these are largely though not entirely from researchers in developing countries, so I'm happy to have a way to give them access to articles for free. 
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: kaysixteen on June 29, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
Back in the day I posted with some real regularity on various old-style professional email lists for classics, history, and librarianship.  Most are very less active nowadays, and in any case, I am not on many any more and have not posted anything on any of them for years.  That is probably a good thing, as, ahem, well let's just say some of these lists were dominated by people who have often different perspectives than myself, and in my younger days, well....
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Hibush on June 30, 2020, 04:00:14 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on June 29, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
Back in the day I posted with some real regularity on various old-style professional email lists for classics, history, and librarianship.  Most are very less active nowadays, and in any case, I am not on many any more and have not posted anything on any of them for years.
Quote from: polly_mer on June 29, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
I have a ResearchGate account, but it's been all but worthless to me.  The discussions weren't even interesting the first month.
Quote from: Puget on June 29, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
I use ResearchGate to share my papers and see who is citing them (in addition to google scholar), but have never commented on papers or looked at any discussion there-- I don't think it really gets used for that, at least not in my field. It's much more like google scholar than like a social media/discussion platform, whatever the original ambitions.


These experiences all reinforce that online scholarly discussion is waning on the platforms of the last decade but have not migrated to the new platforms that are available. We (scholars of many stripes) are missing an opportunity.

I suspect that discussion could start on RG in some subspecialty. If it becomes an accepted practice, and the commentary is informative, then it could catch on more broadly. It could be the discussion you wish would occur after a conference talk.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: downer on June 30, 2020, 06:12:18 AM
Quote from: Hibush on June 30, 2020, 04:00:14 AM

These experiences all reinforce that online scholarly discussion is waning on the platforms of the last decade but have not migrated to the new platforms that are available. We (scholars of many stripes) are missing an opportunity.


The simple fact is that most faculty devote their energies to what will be good for them. That generally means publishing in peer reviewed journals, writing scholarly books, and then promoting their work in other venues.

Some faculty have worked out how to promote their own work through social media and blog posts.

There will be almost zero temptation to contribute to anonymous internet boards.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on June 30, 2020, 06:40:32 AM
Quote from: Hibush on June 30, 2020, 04:00:14 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on June 29, 2020, 06:54:51 PM
Back in the day I posted with some real regularity on various old-style professional email lists for classics, history, and librarianship.  Most are very less active nowadays, and in any case, I am not on many any more and have not posted anything on any of them for years.
Quote from: polly_mer on June 29, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
I have a ResearchGate account, but it's been all but worthless to me.  The discussions weren't even interesting the first month.
Quote from: Puget on June 29, 2020, 06:22:31 PM
I use ResearchGate to share my papers and see who is citing them (in addition to google scholar), but have never commented on papers or looked at any discussion there-- I don't think it really gets used for that, at least not in my field. It's much more like google scholar than like a social media/discussion platform, whatever the original ambitions.


These experiences all reinforce that online scholarly discussion is waning on the platforms of the last decade but have not migrated to the new platforms that are available. We (scholars of many stripes) are missing an opportunity.

I suspect that discussion could start on RG in some subspecialty. If it becomes an accepted practice, and the commentary is informative, then it could catch on more broadly. It could be the discussion you wish would occur after a conference talk.

More than 10 years ago, I sat through many presentations on how social media was really going to change how discussions were done in science.

The "discussion you wish would occur after a conference talk" already happen for those of us who are really established in the relevant community.  One thing I notice most as I travel up and down the prestige ladder is how much easier the cutting edge discussions were higher on the prestige ladder.

At places really doing high-level research (in the before times), we have visitors all the time from all over the world who are eager to spend a day or a week just talking about the research issues.  Grad students and postdocs often get individual (if a rising star in the right specialty) or group slots to talk with the visitors.  The seminar is more of a formal point in the day than a one-and-done fly through.

Even at lower ranked places, regularly attending the right conferences and being seen as a solid member of the community means getting to have discussions on what's being presented.  Attending the conferences as a master's student did indeed mean listening to talks and then trying to find someone who wanted to continue the discussion.  Attending conferences now means talking to all my friends and colleagues.  I may end up in a handful of talks, especially the keynote or invited talks, but most of the conference is discussion in the hall, especially for something huge like the American Physical Society March Meeting.

As an established member of the community with known interests, people send me relevant papers for the specialties that are small enough that we all know each other to some degree.  Grad students and postdocs who have a real shot at becoming professionals in the field in their own right are introduced around.  Anyone who is not on the conference circuit or the visitor circuit is really not being prepared for a job in the field.

In my current position that required me to join a new scientific community (new both to me and relatively new in the world), it would be a complete non-starter to try to set up an "open" discussion group.  People who matter  attend the handful of international conferences that are purposely set up to have a lot of discussion.  People who matter are members of the regular discussion groups that alternate meeting in person and monthlyish telecons held explicitly for the purpose of ensuring the community gets enough discussion.

Yep, students and amateurs may benefit from some sort of additional outlets that aren't dependent on who you know, but those of us with the knowledge don't have the bandwidth to take on something else when we already have good outlets and access to each other's students/postdocs.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Myword on June 30, 2020, 02:02:23 PM
So no one posts opinions on popular sites such as City Data? Or quora?  You feel it is beneath you? Or don't care to share thoughts with amateurs?  It may take a long time to get a reply on an academic site, if you get one at all. My feeling is that Ph.D.s are not into this social media
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on June 30, 2020, 08:17:04 PM
Quote from: Myword on June 30, 2020, 02:02:23 PM
So no one posts opinions on popular sites such as City Data? Or quora?  You feel it is beneath you? Or don't care to share thoughts with amateurs?  It may take a long time to get a reply on an academic site, if you get one at all. My feeling is that Ph.D.s are not into this social media

I have plenty of demands on my professional time.  It is very, very unlikely that anyone is asking questions on those sites that need my professional expertise in terms of computational materials science, VVUQ of computational models, and risk-informed, high-consequence decision-making that relies on computational models.

I participate here because I have expertise in higher ed outside the classroom that is useful to others.

Wat's the benefit to anyone for me to screw around on random sites waiting for a question that might need my expertise at the level of intro courses (I have seen those questions) instead of putting more effort into my research and discussing my research with people who can use it?

Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: mamselle on July 01, 2020, 06:32:50 AM
When I was trying to locate a missing branch of our family in the UK, I participated for awhile on a very well set-up site for the town that included a lot of historical info (they were one of the old colliery towns, besides having played some part in the internecine wars of the 14th-17th centuries; ironically, a colonial gravestone I've worked on here in the US is also for one of their 17th c. schoolmasters).

After locating my kin, who had all moved away, as it turned out, I tried to stay on the site, but the same three or four retired guys kept posting the same old " it wasn't like that in OUR day" rants, and kept getting themselves banned for rather colorful mid-Lothian  expletives (I learned a few unwanted terms that stick in the brain like earworms...) so I finally gave up.

Something similar happened with our town's chat line...two self-proclaimed "oldest inhabitant"-type guys (it was never females, I'm reporting, not generalizing, here) would get onto some barney, start a rapid-fire barrage of couterposting, and stuff my email box full of ten-post summaries of their altercations--some of which seemed to have originated during their high school years here in the 1950s/60s.

Without a buffer of sanity (i.e., enough other posters offering more palatable fare) it was too much to absorb: I was spending half my time just purging my inbox of their poisonous diatribes.

So I gave up on them, too.

People who selfishly hijack a social media outlet just to air their personal vendettas don't seem to recognize that they contribute to a high attrition rate on the site, and erode away the very audience they imagine themselves to be performing for.

Sic semper tyrranus...

M.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on July 01, 2020, 07:46:52 AM
After a good night's sleep, I'm going to address directly
Quote from: Myword on June 30, 2020, 02:02:23 PMYou feel it is beneath you? Or don't care to share thoughts with amateurs?


In my day job, I am a respected professional.  My expert judgement is worth hundreds of dollars per hour.  I am invited to have discussions with the FDA, FAA, NRC, and other federal agencies because of my expertise in using computational models to make high-consequence decisions with estimates of risk.

Yet on this fora, I had someone dismissively say I'm wrong because she reads the news and there was an article with an Nth-hand summary she prefers over my expert judgement in the limitations of that model.

In a different day job, I had professional training in online education, assessment, and accreditation for higher ed.  My responsibility was to know the regulations and best practices, so I spent hours every week immersed with the literature and relevant discourse groups, but that doesn't matter when the assertion is the weight should go to 'real academics currently in the classroom' instead of knowledge based on broad research.

In another day job, my responsibility was keeping up with trends in higher ed for our institutional planning and resource allocation.  Again, I spent hours every week with the research and relevant discourse communities.  I still keep up in some areas because I want to see the outcome.  Yet, on these fora, I get not infrequently reported for making personal attacks for pointing out that a given post indicates someone being seriously underinformed regarding discussions going on in the general higher ed outlets at the moment, let alone knowing more than just personal experience and wishes for a different reality.

Years ago, I would attend the general physics and cold fusion sessions at the American Physical Society March Meeting.  APS has a philosophy that everyone who submits by the deadline in good form gets a slot.  General physics is the session for outside the mainstream as well as out-and-out crackpots.  In both sessions, the audience is mostly students who are eager to correct typical misconceptions regarding quantum mechanics and relativity.  The speakers want to be taken seriously, but they push back hard on the notion that they have made errors that good HS students in physics and chemistry won't make.


Thus, as mamselle wrote, some of the people most eager to engage with experts are the reason that experts will disengage with the general public.  Why would experts continue to be insulted and dismissed when they have plenty of outlets for positive, or at least productive less pleasant interactions? 

Having another expert prod weaknesses in a new line of cutting edge research is valuable, even when not in-the-moment pleasant.

Having a seriously underinformed person insist their opinion based on inadequate references or just personal experience is as valid as expertise gets old fast.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Myword on July 02, 2020, 03:42:30 PM
I got it. Didn't know that about you.

Kudos.
Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: polly_mer on July 03, 2020, 05:17:05 PM
Quote from: Myword on July 02, 2020, 03:42:30 PM
I got it. Didn't know that about you.

It's not just me.  Faculty are faculty because they are experts in their areas.

Engaging with the public as just one of many "opinions" in the discussion is often frustrating and a bad use of precious time/energy.

Better is to do focused outreach as an expert or to decide where targeted communication might matter.

I'm still here as a voice because generally, when people leave academia, their voices are lost to the discussion.  As one comment on another outlet mentioned recently, when you leave, it's healthier to embrace the identity of data scientist than to think of oneself permanently as an alt-ac using the transferable skills.

Title: Re: Comments, posts on other forums
Post by: Myword on July 04, 2020, 07:52:13 AM
I have much more time as I have no classes.
   Agree.   It is tempting to inform the public about misunderstandings in my expertise,
where they know little or nothing. I will try avoiding it.

The bigger issue and problem is that the internet forums, boards
invite opportunities for rampant cheating. Getting answers from strangers. I have seen numerous questions and whole assignments that appear to be homework on forum sites. I mentioned it to a moderator (not this forum) and he accused me of trolling, didn't care a bit.
This is mainly in humanities, social sciences, English. I ignore the posts.