Dialect in children's books: Librarians, editors, anyone: lend me your ideas!

[mamselle]

This has come upon me unexpectedly.

A friend of a friend is writing a YA-level book. Friend asked if I'd look it over as an editor. Sure, fine.

We discussed rates, terms, turnaround time. No problem. I said 'Send me a couplea pages, I'll look it over first."

So she did.

Friend backed away, we're on our own now.

Except...uh-oh, it's in Southern U.S. dialect. Could be touchy in places.

I'd pretty much come to think that while older books (Twain, et al.) needn't be purged as artifactual references to literary mores of their own era, current writers needed to avoid dialect as thinly veiled mockery of the people who spoke whatever dialect it was (Creole, Welsh, Brooklyn, South Boston) in context.

I've looked up a couple of recent essays on the topic; it seems to be more in flux than I'd thought...and I need to have an informed, open mind on the subject going into it, if I take the job on.

So....hive-mind, was denkst-du? (What do you think)? Any references I might consider? Firm, "received opinions" from any one side or the other? "Yes/OK/here//No/not OK/ there" guidelines?

I'm....Puzzled...

M.

[apl68]

I've tried writing in dialect (To an extent) myself, but having never published anything haven't received a lot of feedback. 

There are apparently recognized experts in the subject out there.  Jennifer Sommer, who is both a YA writer with MFA and an MLS librarian has written a thesis on writing in dialect and conducted workshops in it.  You can look her up online at

https://jennifersommer.weebly.com/

[Morden]

Is the friend of the friend from the Southern US?

[Parasaurolophus]

All I can say is:

Causing prodound offense seems like a bad thing in and of itself, but not all cultural appropriation is profoundly offensive, and not all profoundly offensive cultural appropriation is morally wrong. So, for instance, white female didgeridoo players might be profoundly offensive, but it doesn't look to me like they're doing anything morally wrong as long as they're not trying to provoke an indigenous community.

Dialect use looks to me like a case of subject appropriation (using a minority culture's styles of expression). Sometimes that's OK, and sometimes not. Whether it's OK seems to me to depend on the uses to which it's put, the context in which it occurs, and the effort put into the execution.

In particular, I think that an outsider author simply relying on their own ear to reproduce the dialect is problematic and offensive (though not morally wrong, unless context shows otherwise), but that research and consultation with dialect-speakers--with members of the relevant community!--consitutes a good-faith effort at engagement, and thus defuses my concerns. I've noticed that outsiders who rely on their own ears will often conflate Black and White Southern dialects, or neglect class-level differences, and that's the kind of dereliction of research duty that would bother me. British actors doing an American Southern accent are often guilty of this (and vice-versa).

I can tell you, as someone who belongs to such a linguistic community, that I get pretty upset about my dialect being misused in literature, especially by Anglos (and especially by Anglo-Canadians, who ought to know better).

[backatit]

I can put you in touch with an editor who may be able to answer the question. Text me if you still have my #, or PM me.

[Hegemony]

I've worked in publishing, and a while in children's publishing.  The simple fact is that publishers won't buy a book with spelled-out dialect in it. Completely aside from issues of sensitivity and so forth, readers refuse to read it.  I know, you will protest that Mark Twain spelled out dialect, Marguerite Henry spelled out dialect!  And so on. Yes, but those are not modern writers. Modern readers have enough trouble reading — they're not going to plough through spelled-out dialect. It simply isn't published any more. It is deeply unfashionable, and was deeply unfashionable before any issues of sensitivity arose.

Children's publishers (the ones that accept unagented material) get a lot of spelled-out dialect, just as they get incredible amounts of picture books in (unmetrical) rhyme.  The chance they will publish either of these is very tiny.

Having also worked in publishing and in the writing community, I also know that most writers, when told these things, or dozens of other pieces of information about modern publishing, will take offense and refuse to believe the teller or to alter their works. So my guess is that this news should be framed carefully: "In modern publishing, publishers don't want..." If she refuses to believe it, well, that's on her.

[mamselle]

Thank you.

Yes, I had found and read the Sommers piece and found it insightful, also. Thanks for the link.

Yes, the writer is a southern white female (I asked my friend) and the friend, also a writer, was likewise concerned and talked with--but couldn't get much further with-- the writer on this issue.

I'll probably call her tomorrow sometime.

I very much appreciate the insights shared here.

M.

[spork]

What Hegemony says. The author has the choice of writing adult fiction with some dialogue in dialect* that has a chance of getting published or writing a YA novel in dialect that will never get published. Regardless, get your money up front.

*I'm thinking of Ron Rash's One Foot in Eden, Larry Brown's Joe, and Carolyn Chute's The Beans of Egypt, Maine, where the language is actually more "regionalist" in nature than the heavy dialect of something like an old racist Mammy tale.

[mamselle]

Thanks, This has been very helpful.

I summarized several of the comments and forwarded them to my friend's friend, and then we discussed them. We agreed that, taking the issues raised into consideration, the writer needs to decide between the two options Spork suggested: either scrub the dialect and rework the book for it's original YP audience, or keep the dialect and turn it into an adult book.

I suggested she look at some of the examples people named, plus maybe a re-read of "To Kill a Mockingbird," and Bradbury's "Dandelion Wine" to see if the child's voice within an adult framework could work for her story. (I'm now remembering, "A Member of the Wedding" might be good, too.)

She's going to read those and sit with her thoughts for a bit before deciding, which I think is wise.

It's been very helpful to have this input so clearly and thoughtfully made...many thanks.

M.

[mamselle]

Thought I'd come back to report on this: just got an email this AM that gladdend my heart.

After doing the suggested readings, the author in question decided that the dialect in her own book was unnecessary and distracting: she said she saw how the two authors had  conveyed a sense of childhood in the South through their word choices in other ways.

She's also realized that she likes the freedom a book written about children, but for adults, allows in exploring more developed descriptive passages, and bringing out nuances that more mature readers can follow and appreciate.

So she's decided both to strip the dialect, and to re-focus the project as an adult book for more mature readers.

(In between, she's had a family wedding to organize within all the current constraints...a different kind of "editing," perhaps....which explained the hiatus: I was getting a bit worried)

I was pleased to see her summary, written after she'd read the Bradbury* and re-read Harper Lee, and to see her decisions.

I wanted to share them as follow-up since this thread helped me a lot to think about how to address the issues respectfully and honestly.

M.

*Teaching brainstorm/digression, just slightly related....I wonder about comparing Asimov's "Childhood's End"  (which we read in a Classics class as an example of the hero myth; the children, collectively, were held to represent the heroic character by our instructor) with the Bradbury...and with the unfolding story of The Child in the serial film "The Mandalorian." That could make for an interesting two weeks' reading, watching, and discussion, maybe....)

Mmm...Might then pair that with a unit on Austen's "Emma" and RLStevenson's "Treasure Island" as "next-stage characters moving towards adulthood, with one of the films on those two books, or another one..."Persuasion," maybe.

The next half, I'd look at representations of the arts (Music, Dance, Theatre, Vis. Arts) in Mann, Austen, Alcott, and L'Engle, with a couple of films again....Maybe the Winona Ryder/"Little Women," and the Knightly "Pride and Prejudice," or..."Big River" (the child, like Emmet Till, never gets to grow up), and (noting all the racial assumptions and 1950s conventions outright) "Flower Drum Song" or "South Pacific"...young men growing up during war in a culturally displaced setting, which is what wars force them to do....)

Hmmmm....someday! "Life Cycles in Literature" maybe?

;--} These ideas come unbidden!

M.

[smallcleanrat]

*Teaching brainstorm/digression, just slightly related....I wonder about comparing Asimov's "Childhood's End"  (which we read in a Classics class as an example of the hero myth; the children, collectively, were held to represent the heroic character by our instructor) with the Bradbury...and with the unfolding story of The Child in the serial film "The Mandalorian." That could make for an interesting two weeks' reading, watching, and discussion, maybe....)

Wasn't "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clarke? Or did Asimov write a work with the same title?

[mamselle]

Good catch, you're right!

I was just trying to be sure I didn't say it was by Bradbury, and forgot to double-check myself.

Thanks!

M.