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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 04:32:27 AM

Title: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 04:32:27 AM
I realize that with texting the gap between spoken and written languages has narrowed quite dramatically in recent years (plus we have text-ese now too). But still there are words which will we say in informal conversation which we hardly ever write. I know because a few years ago I tried writing one of these words in a text message and realized that I didn't know how to spell it and couldn't remember even having seen it written. Frustratingly, I have totally forgotten what this particular word was.

Yesterday in a French/English conversation exchange, my French language pal tried to teach me a very informal word for "being so tired that you feel like there is a bunch of cotton in your head." I had never heard the word before and asked her to write it for me, but she said that she had never seen it written and had no idea how to spell it. So, all I got was that it was two syllables, had some [k] sounds in it and at least one open nasal vowel.

In any case, I was wondering if anyone else has had an experience similar to what I described in the first paragraph (or I suppose the second if you are studying a foreign language)? If so, what was the word in question? And when you write it, which you will inevitably do here :), did you make up a spelling? Look it up on-line? Or....? 
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Hegemony on September 12, 2020, 06:50:54 AM
I know some American dialect words that are like that. "Criminetly" (an exclamation that is a variant of "Criminy") and one I've only heard in my family, though my mother said it was common in her area when she was growing up: "auskyspeeled."  Pronounced OWS-kee-speeld. "Aus" to rhyme with "house,"  or like German aus.  I assume auskyspeeled is derived from German ausgespielt; she grew up in an area heavily settled by Germans. It means "all turned around," as in "I was trying to put on my sweater but it was all auskyspeeled."  Both of those spellings are just my guesses; I have never seen them written down.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
Was it 'crevé'?
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 07:43:09 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
Was it 'crevé'?

Nope. I know that one. And it's pretty standard ....

Maybe it was dialect (although I don't think educated 30 somethings in France speak much dialect) or some semi-invented word used by her circle. I'll have to ask her again next time we talk.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: apl68 on September 12, 2020, 07:44:04 AM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 12, 2020, 06:50:54 AM
I know some American dialect words that are like that. "Criminetly" (an exclamation that is a variant of "Criminy") and one I've only heard in my family, though my mother said it was common in her area when she was growing up: "auskyspeeled."  Pronounced OWS-kee-speeld. "Aus" to rhyme with "house,"  or like German aus.  I assume auskyspeeled is derived from German ausgespielt; she grew up in an area heavily settled by Germans. It means "all turned around," as in "I was trying to put on my sweater but it was all auskyspeeled."  Both of those spellings are just my guesses; I have never seen them written down.

Yes, there are a lot of colloquialisms like that.  I've never seen "vydock" (A regional variation on "viaduct," as in a railroad viaduct) spelled.  I grew up hearing it all the time.  As nearly as I can tell, it's peculiar to a few towns in Arkansas that have railroad viaducts with street underpasses.  Locals speak of driving under the vydock, of it flooding when it rains, of an out-of-town school band bus driving under and getting their instruments knocked off the top, etc.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: ergative on September 12, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
A whole nother.

Always looks wrong written; always sounds natural spoken.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 08:53:42 AM
Quote from: ergative on September 12, 2020, 08:17:05 AM
A whole nother.

Always looks wrong written; always sounds natural spoken.

That's a great example. Like you say, it's perfectly natural spoken, but written? Looks pretty weird.

I'm taking a look at this Merriam Webster article on the expression. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/whole-nother)
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 10:16:21 AM
Quote from: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 07:43:09 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
Was it 'crevé'?

Nope. I know that one. And it's pretty standard ....

Maybe it was dialect (although I don't think educated 30 somethings in France speak much dialect) or some semi-invented word used by her circle. I'll have to ask her again next time we talk.

Hmm. I can think of two more options that might fit the criteria: 'cassé' or 'claqué'.


I've got another French one that my family uses all the time, but which I've never seen written: kanechas ("kahn-chah"). (What Québeckers would call 'des bébelles', and Anglos might know as tchotchkes or kinck knacks. I'm reasonably certain it's Walloon and inherited from Flemish, but I've never seen it.)


I'm following this thread with interest, because I can't think of any English words like this, although surely there are some that I know but can't think of! Apart from 'nother', I haven't seen any yet!
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 11:08:42 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 10:16:21 AM
Quote from: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 07:43:09 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 12, 2020, 07:06:20 AM
Was it 'crevé'?

Nope. I know that one. And it's pretty standard ....

Maybe it was dialect (although I don't think educated 30 somethings in France speak much dialect) or some semi-invented word used by her circle. I'll have to ask her again next time we talk.

Hmm. I can think of two more options that might fit the criteria: 'cassé' or 'claqué'.

Not those either, unfortunately.

When she offered the word she was really hesitant as if she were a little embarrassed about it. She said it was "really, really familiar" and implied that she maybe shouldn't have brought it up.

Quote
I've got another French one that my family uses all the time, but which I've never seen written: kanechas ("kahn-chah"). (What Québeckers would call 'des bébelles', and Anglos might know as tchotchkes or kinck knacks. I'm reasonably certain it's Walloon and inherited from Flemish, but I've never seen it.)


Actually, when I was trying to think of spoken/non-written words when I made up this thread, "tchotchkes" came to mind. I had no idea how to spell it, so I guessed with "chotchkes" and got pretty close. But maybe people don't write it a lot just because it's hard to spell not because it belongs almost exclusively to spoken language.

Another unwritten word that my husband and I used to use all the time when we moved from the East coast to an ostensibly boring flyover state was "statriotic," but that was clearly unwritten because we had just invented it ourselves. So it's not really the same thing. Besides, it's pretty clear how it would be spelled if it were a word (like I just did).
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: jimbogumbo on September 12, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 12, 2020, 06:50:54 AM
I know some American dialect words that are like that. "Criminetly" (an exclamation that is a variant of "Criminy") and one I've only heard in my family, though my mother said it was common in her area when she was growing up: "auskyspeeled."  Pronounced OWS-kee-speeld. "Aus" to rhyme with "house,"  or like German aus.  I assume auskyspeeled is derived from German ausgespielt; she grew up in an area heavily settled by Germans. It means "all turned around," as in "I was trying to put on my sweater but it was all auskyspeeled."  Both of those spellings are just my guesses; I have never seen them written down.

I used to read the word criminently a lot in YA books written in the first half of the 20th century.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: traductio on September 12, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.

I grew up an Air Force brat with North Dakotan parents, and "boughten" was what we said. I had to train it out of my vocabulary (just like I had to learn to pronounce "bag" or "flag" with a short 'a' rather than "bay-g" or "flay-g"). I suspect there's a correlation between people who use "boughten" and those who put "with" at the end of sentences with "come" ("you gonna stay here, or are you gonna come with?").
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: traductio on September 12, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.

I grew up an Air Force brat with North Dakotan parents, and "boughten" was what we said. I had to train it out of my vocabulary (just like I had to learn to pronounce "bag" or "flag" with a short 'a' rather than "bay-g" or "flay-g"). I suspect there's a correlation between people who use "boughten" and those who put "with" at the end of sentences with "come" ("you gonna stay here, or are you gonna come with?").

Is there anything wrong with "come with?" I use it frequently as short for "come with us?" where the "us" is implied.

Along these lines, though, I find "pouring down" as in "it was pouring down rain" bothersome. (One of my SILs speaks like this. In fact, guess where I got this example?) Last I checked, rain doesn't pour up, so really why the "down?" But this is more a colloquialism than something that wouldn't be written. I'm guessing that if my SIL ever decided to blog or send us an email about their sh!tty weather, she would just write as she speaks.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Vkw10 on September 12, 2020, 01:04:57 PM
Many of my much older relatives and their friends used "mehaf" to refer to their spouses. My maternal grandparents used "mehaf" when speaking of each other. They were born in the 1890s, attended school when not needed on the farm, and were proud that all nine of their children had the opportunity to attend high school.   I haven't heard "mehaf" used since Granny passed away during my first year of college, but I found a few letters she'd written while clearing my mother's house. She used "mehaf" in a letter to my mother, written not long after my parents moved to the city in the 1960s, but that's the only time I've seen it written.

I suspect "mehaf" was a mangled version of "my better half" which I often heard my older paternal relatives use. That   side of the family lived in town, where attending school didn't require walking quite so far.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Puget on September 12, 2020, 01:10:08 PM
Quote from: traductio on September 12, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.

I grew up an Air Force brat with North Dakotan parents, and "boughten" was what we said. I had to train it out of my vocabulary (just like I had to learn to pronounce "bag" or "flag" with a short 'a' rather than "bay-g" or "flay-g"). I suspect there's a correlation between people who use "boughten" and those who put "with" at the end of sentences with "come" ("you gonna stay here, or are you gonna come with?").

Interesting-- I wonder what the "boughten" zone is? I'm guessing Dakotas west as far as eastern Washington and Oregon, but really have no idea.
Reminds me of the NYT dialect quiz, which is still available to play around with: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html

I think it's too bad that American English is becoming more homogenous--the regional variations are interesting and a link to historic migration patterns and local cultures.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: traductio on September 12, 2020, 01:15:37 PM
Quote from: Treehugger on September 12, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: traductio on September 12, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.

I grew up an Air Force brat with North Dakotan parents, and "boughten" was what we said. I had to train it out of my vocabulary (just like I had to learn to pronounce "bag" or "flag" with a short 'a' rather than "bay-g" or "flay-g"). I suspect there's a correlation between people who use "boughten" and those who put "with" at the end of sentences with "come" ("you gonna stay here, or are you gonna come with?").

Is there anything wrong with "come with?" I use it frequently as short for "come with us?" where the "us" is implied.

I certainly don't think so! To be honest, my guess is it's a calque on German or Norwegian, the main languages spoken by European immigrants in the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. (well, those I'm related to at least). But it always got me strange looks in New Mexico, where I went to high school. My friends would stare at me and ask, "Come with what?" as if I meant to follow the preposition with an object ("come with a pencil," for instance).
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: dismalist on September 12, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
Quotehttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html)

Now that was fun! It precisely placed me in the Bermuda Triangle of Jersey City, New York City, and Yonkers. I indeed grew up in NYC, but haven't lived there for decades. Amazing how language sticks with one from childhood and adolescence.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: RatGuy on September 12, 2020, 01:32:21 PM
I've always thought that "wanna come with?" was Whedon-speak.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Vkw10 on September 12, 2020, 03:03:51 PM
Quote from: dismalist on September 12, 2020, 01:25:44 PM
Quotehttps://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html)

Now that was fun! It precisely placed me in the Bermuda Triangle of Jersey City, New York City, and Yonkers. I indeed grew up in NYC, but haven't lived there for decades. Amazing how language sticks with one from childhood and adolescence.

Fun, indeed. The first time I took this quiz, I didn't recognize many of the words. This time, I was identifying words from each region I've lived in as I responded with the words I use from childhood.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Hegemony on September 12, 2020, 07:49:36 PM
"Come with" is normal in my dialect (midwestern, German-influenced), but not in a lot of others. Same with "want out," as in "The cat wants out."  An acquaintance of mine called that construction "more objectionable than ain't."  But we have wandered from the topic of words so informal that they have no official spelling.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: jimbogumbo on September 13, 2020, 06:40:02 AM
I remember a PBS show years ago titled "The Story of English" (maybe?). It was wonderful, and really opened my eyes to the joy of regional variation. For example the use of gumband instead of rubber band in NW Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Puget on September 13, 2020, 06:51:57 AM
Quote from: Hegemony on September 12, 2020, 07:49:36 PM
"Come with" is normal in my dialect (midwestern, German-influenced), but not in a lot of others. Same with "want out," as in "The cat wants out."  An acquaintance of mine called that construction "more objectionable than ain't."  But we have wandered from the topic of words so informal that they have no official spelling.

Both of those sound completely  normal to me, and I grew up in Washington state.
Interestingly the "most similar to" map on the dialect quiz for me spanned from there across the northern tier of the mountain west and planes as far as Minnesota. I suspect this may be a remnant of very old migration patterns, maybe even including the northern route of the Oregon trial.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: cathwen on September 13, 2020, 07:12:52 AM
I grew up in northern Delaware, and we always said "The cat wants out."  (We had two cats, so we were saying this a lot.)
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: traductio on September 13, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

And seen -- the puffing of the cheeks is very important. (ETA: I'd say "In France" rather than "In French," as that specific expression is absent from French-speaking Canada, at least in my experience.)
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 08:32:49 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

And seen -- the puffing of the cheeks is very important. (ETA: I'd say "In France" rather than "In French," as that specific expression is absent from French-speaking Canada, at least in my experience.)

Yes...toss of the head and Gallic shrug are add-on features, of course, if you want to indicate really elaborate disdain...
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: traductio on September 13, 2020, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 08:32:49 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

And seen -- the puffing of the cheeks is very important. (ETA: I'd say "In France" rather than "In French," as that specific expression is absent from French-speaking Canada, at least in my experience.)

Yes...toss of the head and Gallic shrug are add-on features, of course, if you want to indicate really elaborate disdain...

I worked hard to learn that -- "expression" seems such an inadequate term -- anyway, to express myself that way. I am too much of a North American, and it always rang false. There's an elegance to the movement's semiotic denseness that I could not reproduce.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 09:55:43 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 08:32:49 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

And seen -- the puffing of the cheeks is very important. (ETA: I'd say "In France" rather than "In French," as that specific expression is absent from French-speaking Canada, at least in my experience.)

Yes...toss of the head and Gallic shrug are add-on features, of course, if you want to indicate really elaborate disdain...

I worked hard to learn that -- "expression" seems such an inadequate term -- anyway, to express myself that way. I am too much of a North American, and it always rang false. There's an elegance to the movement's semiotic denseness that I could not reproduce.

No. 1 on this instructional video, in fact...

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uroIA8Za3M

:--}

M.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: ergative on September 14, 2020, 04:38:46 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 09:55:43 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 09:00:35 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 08:32:49 AM
Quote from: traductio on September 13, 2020, 08:27:25 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

And seen -- the puffing of the cheeks is very important. (ETA: I'd say "In France" rather than "In French," as that specific expression is absent from French-speaking Canada, at least in my experience.)

Yes...toss of the head and Gallic shrug are add-on features, of course, if you want to indicate really elaborate disdain...

I worked hard to learn that -- "expression" seems such an inadequate term -- anyway, to express myself that way. I am too much of a North American, and it always rang false. There's an elegance to the movement's semiotic denseness that I could not reproduce.

No. 1 on this instructional video, in fact...

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uroIA8Za3M

:--}

M.

I learned that my first year in French class! We were learning how to talk about how we were, and one of the possible responses to 'Ca va?' was 'Bof, pas terrible'. So I learned to spell that before I ever heard it spoken. I remember wondering whether it was possible to omit the 'bof' or not.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: marshwiggle on September 14, 2020, 04:52:05 AM
I realized that I think I have one from Quebequois French.

"Bain non" or "bain oui".  (Then vowel sound is basically a short "e", and it helps if you kind of draw it out, and maybe even do a bit of a shrug to indicate that it's kind of obvious.)

In trying to look it up, here's (https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110513134239AAGrZv6&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGJS2EJcyZgG-J2FPzgwRwjJ2tSuub_tv0rvYIhNST93WMgstK8QOcC6A7ccs17ZfD-pOl3AhrsiRIaDyX19y7gxdxN1uNVZ0Qt8J1MoXAptMbNZCUn96Fho5HL3cLOhQDbVyDzSA8xvkIs1r4tHS8p48edrqp_a7hQUpZJ73fvt) what I found.

Sample usage:

"Aimez vous les choix pour President?"

"Bain, non!"

Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: apl68 on September 14, 2020, 08:05:11 AM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 01:10:08 PM
Quote from: traductio on September 12, 2020, 12:03:38 PM
Quote from: Puget on September 12, 2020, 11:09:11 AM
Not a word, but a word-form-- in the mountain west (and maybe elsewhere, I don't know) you still sometimes hear "store boughten" (rather than "bought) as the opposite of home-made. It's not the sort of things you'd normally see written, except maybe as dialog, and I've never heard the archaic form boughten used anywhere except in that phrase.

I grew up an Air Force brat with North Dakotan parents, and "boughten" was what we said. I had to train it out of my vocabulary (just like I had to learn to pronounce "bag" or "flag" with a short 'a' rather than "bay-g" or "flay-g"). I suspect there's a correlation between people who use "boughten" and those who put "with" at the end of sentences with "come" ("you gonna stay here, or are you gonna come with?").

Interesting-- I wonder what the "boughten" zone is? I'm guessing Dakotas west as far as eastern Washington and Oregon, but really have no idea.
Reminds me of the NYT dialect quiz, which is still available to play around with: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/dialect-quiz-map.html

More than just that.  I'd always associated the word with the hill country of Arkansas, Missouri, and Appalachia.  This thread is the first I've heard of it out west.  You learn something new every day!
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Treehugger on September 16, 2020, 07:21:37 AM
Well, I heard back from my French language pal about the mystery word, which turned out to be "coaltar." So, sorry, nobody could have possibly guessed that given my origin explanation.

Here is her explanation:

QuoteRemember about the french expression we talked about? I found the correct way to write it : "Je suis dans le coaltar." The coaltar is a tar used to build the roads. If one inhale its toxic steams, one can be dizzy, confused, etc. I had no idea where the expression came from. I've just learned that thanks to you!   

Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 07:42:50 AM
Quote from: Treehugger on September 16, 2020, 07:21:37 AM
Well, I heard back from my French language pal about the mystery word, which turned out to be "coaltar." So, sorry, nobody could have possibly guessed that given my origin explanation.

Here is her explanation:

QuoteRemember about the french expression we talked about? I found the correct way to write it : "Je suis dans le coaltar." The coaltar is a tar used to build the roads. If one inhale its toxic steams, one can be dizzy, confused, etc. I had no idea where the expression came from. I've just learned that thanks to you!   


Wow. Nobody could ever have guessed!

Surely l'académie must be having conniptions. I know the OQLF would, if the term ever made it to our shores.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 07:56:15 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

Heh. We say bof in Québec, too. We also have the shrug.


Quote from: marshwiggle on September 14, 2020, 04:52:05 AM
I realized that I think I have one from Quebequois French.

"Bain non" or "bain oui".  (Then vowel sound is basically a short "e", and it helps if you kind of draw it out, and maybe even do a bit of a shrug to indicate that it's kind of obvious.)

In trying to look it up, here's (https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110513134239AAGrZv6&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGJS2EJcyZgG-J2FPzgwRwjJ2tSuub_tv0rvYIhNST93WMgstK8QOcC6A7ccs17ZfD-pOl3AhrsiRIaDyX19y7gxdxN1uNVZ0Qt8J1MoXAptMbNZCUn96Fho5HL3cLOhQDbVyDzSA8xvkIs1r4tHS8p48edrqp_a7hQUpZJ73fvt) what I found.

Sample usage:

"Aimez vous les choix pour President?"

"Bain, non!"

Your link has it right: it's usually rendered 'ben', and is contracted from 'bien'.

Here's one that's Québec-specific and rhymes with 'ben', however: ouin ("yeah"). Francos outside Québec typically say 'ouais' (or 'oui', obvs). But the 'ouin' is all QC. Chus (je suis--I am) and y'est (il est--he is/it is), too.

There's lots of other fun ones that leave other Francos scratching their heads: sontait, assir, barrer, jaser, magasiner, clavarder, achaler, binnes, bobettes, cotteur, foufounes, gazer, tigidou, etc.

I guess none of those quite satisfy the requirement that they exist in spoken but not written language, though. They're sufficiently widespread that everyday informal writing uses them all the time.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: marshwiggle on September 16, 2020, 08:05:39 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 07:56:15 AM
Quote from: mamselle on September 13, 2020, 12:32:56 AM
In French, there's that "Boouf" sound, said with a pout, that has to be heard to be understood.

M.

Heh. We say bof in Québec, too. We also have the shrug.


Quote from: marshwiggle on September 14, 2020, 04:52:05 AM
I realized that I think I have one from Quebequois French.

"Bain non" or "bain oui".  (Then vowel sound is basically a short "e", and it helps if you kind of draw it out, and maybe even do a bit of a shrug to indicate that it's kind of obvious.)

In trying to look it up, here's (https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110513134239AAGrZv6&guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGJS2EJcyZgG-J2FPzgwRwjJ2tSuub_tv0rvYIhNST93WMgstK8QOcC6A7ccs17ZfD-pOl3AhrsiRIaDyX19y7gxdxN1uNVZ0Qt8J1MoXAptMbNZCUn96Fho5HL3cLOhQDbVyDzSA8xvkIs1r4tHS8p48edrqp_a7hQUpZJ73fvt) what I found.

Sample usage:

"Aimez vous les choix pour President?"

"Bain, non!"

Your link has it right: it's usually rendered 'ben', and is contracted from 'bien'.

Here's one that's Québec-specific and rhymes with 'ben', however: ouin ("yeah"). Francos outside Québec typically say 'ouais' (or 'oui', obvs). But the 'ouin' is all QC. Chus (je suis--I am) and y'est (il est--he is/it is), too.

There's lots of other fun ones that leave other Francos scratching their heads: sontait, assir, barrer, jaser, magasiner, clavarder, achaler, binnes, bobettes, cotteur, foufounes, gazer, tigidou, etc.

When we watched "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" with relatives from France, they elected to watch "in English" (i.e. with French subtitles) rather than "in French" (i.e. with English subtitles) because they found Québequois too confusing. (They're fairly bilingual.)


Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 08:21:44 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 16, 2020, 08:05:39 AM


When we watched "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" with relatives from France, they elected to watch "in English" (i.e. with French subtitles) rather than "in French" (i.e. with English subtitles) because they found Québequois too confusing. (They're fairly bilingual.)

Hehe, that's great!

I have two Franco accents/dialects--Liégois, and joual (well, three, technically, since I can shed the joual for more proper Québecois). One comes from my family, the other(s) from my stepfamily. When I visit family in Belgium, I usually use their accent. They invariably ask me to use my "beautiful" joual dialect, though, because they find their own confusion pretty amusing.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: marshwiggle on September 16, 2020, 08:30:59 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 08:21:44 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 16, 2020, 08:05:39 AM


When we watched "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" with relatives from France, they elected to watch "in English" (i.e. with French subtitles) rather than "in French" (i.e. with English subtitles) because they found Québequois too confusing. (They're fairly bilingual.)

Hehe, that's great!

I have two Franco accents/dialects--Liégois, and joual (well, three, technically, since I can shed the joual for more proper Québecois). One comes from my family, the other(s) from my stepfamily. When I visit family in Belgium, I usually use their accent. They invariably ask me to use my "beautiful" joual dialect, though, because they find their own confusion pretty amusing.

When I was talking with a guy in a laundromat in Paris, he guessed my accent was Belgian before I told him I was Canadian. I was pleased that he didn't automatically recognize that I was a native English speaker.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: mamselle on September 16, 2020, 10:49:45 AM
When I've been visiting my cousin in Liege for a week (as I often do first when over-the-pond) or Strasbourg, and then go to Paris, people ask me if I'm German. (I take it as a compliment. Much rather be mistaken for another Euro than for an American, I always figure)...

I guess I must pick up a bit of the German/Alsatian/Liegois inflection while I'm there; apparently, I've shed it within a week or so, because the questions stop after that.

But I haven't yet figured out Wallonais (which my cousin still speaks with friends, vestigially--they laugh a lot, trying to remember some of the words--it was the language their parents spoke when they didn't want the kids to know what they were saying--so, of course, the kids figured a lot of it out...).

And I've had to do tours for bus-fulls of folks from Nova Scotia, as well as Quebec; I usually get about every third word, but they think that's wonderful, that someone is trying, and are very accommodating about it--usually they get to me after a week of tooling around elsewhere, so maybe they don't get such efforts before they reach me.

I always finish those tours thinking I need to find a YouTube course in Joual and sit through a few lessons, just to get the hang of it.

For the moment, of course, all that's suspended, so it's a project for a later time.

M.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: fourhats on September 16, 2020, 12:15:05 PM
Does anyone listen to "Word for the Wise"? I love that show. I used to hear it on public radio, but now I download podcasts of it to listen to when I'm out for a walk. It takes listeners' calls and questions just like the ones posted here, and fills in the origins of words and phrases, and also the regions where they're used. I'm often surprised by regionalisms, especially generational ones.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: mamselle on September 16, 2020, 08:58:53 PM
I think a friend used to listen to something like that on NPR, but it might have been called something else.

It is indeed absorbing.

M.
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: Hibush on September 17, 2020, 06:06:56 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 16, 2020, 08:21:44 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 16, 2020, 08:05:39 AM


When we watched "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" with relatives from France, they elected to watch "in English" (i.e. with French subtitles) rather than "in French" (i.e. with English subtitles) because they found Québequois too confusing. (They're fairly bilingual.)

Hehe, that's great!

I have two Franco accents/dialects--Liégois, and joual (well, three, technically, since I can shed the joual for more proper Québecois). One comes from my family, the other(s) from my stepfamily. When I visit family in Belgium, I usually use their accent. They invariably ask me to use my "beautiful" joual dialect, though, because they find their own confusion pretty amusing.

A Quebecker labmate of mine told me that Joual (I have not seen the spelling before) is derived from cheval, and was applied to the language because Quebec francophones ate horsemeat. True, or a bunch of horse***t?
Title: Re: Words that exist almost entirely in spoken, not written language?
Post by: fourhats on September 17, 2020, 07:48:21 AM
QuoteI think a friend used to listen to something like that on NPR, but it might have been called something else.

Yes, that's the same one--I originally found it on NPR, and used to listen regularly before I moved and switched to the podcast.