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Cheaters

Started by pedanticromantic, August 12, 2019, 02:08:32 PM

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Parasaurolophus

Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 12:32:56 PM

I suspect that students are more likely to try cheating in the summers because it is summer -- it feels less serious, and I also know quite a few professors don't bother to try fitting 15 weeks worth of work into the 8 weeks, the 5 weeks or even the 3 weeks. They just do a "lite" version of the course. That adds to the sense that it is a bit of a joke.

I never got that memo. Actually, I think it might be harder for me to redesign the course so that it's "lite" and we still manage to fill our six hours a week.

My students are almost broken at this point. But, by Bog, they've learned something. At least one thing. And they're not doing poorly, more's the wonder!
I know it's a genus.

polly_mer

#16
Quote from: mahagonny on August 13, 2019, 08:19:38 AM
Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 06:54:48 AM
Cheating undermines the academic process, but we all know it happens. Devoting increasing resources to making sure that no students ever cheat means distorting the teaching process, and sometimes giving assignments that are not such good indicators of understanding, because they are harder to cheat on. I still come down hard on cheaters, but I've come to be more stoic about it.

And if you devote your resources to it, you'll likely be doing it without enough support.

Would this be a hijack if I mention the 'A' word? Probably...

I know nothing about the stresses and strains of climbing the ladder to tenure, but I can tell you this: higher education is neglecting the discipline and control of cheating anytime it has faculty who can be fired at any time for no reason, or any reason not required to be divulged. Individual chairs or deans may do their best to mitigate the structural flaw that creates this situation, but the situation is there.

My experience is different.  The question in my mind remains whether the institution has standards or is just collecting money for checking boxes.  The mere presence of part-time folks on short-term contracts is not the same as not having standards.

I had the most support for enforcing academic norms when I was an adjunct at an open-enrollment community college that was free to residents of the county.  That administration wanted the education we were providing to mean something so they were very supportive of professors who imposed penalties for cheating.  I got a kudos from the VP of Academic Affairs for reporting cheating to the appropriate committee.  Most classes were being taught by part-time folks on term-by-term contracts because that institution had such significant term-by-term enrollment fluctuation and a tight budget.  The ways to be on the adjunct "no more contracts" list for student cheating were to look the other way and take no steps to help students do the right thing.

I had substantial support when I was full-time non-TT at a regional comprehensive.  When a couple students filed complaints against me for enforcing rules preventing plagiarism, the dean's office took the evidence and worked through the process so I could focus on teaching.  The dean's office even gave me words of encouragement that I was doing the right thing because the students were in the wrong.

The place where I had the least support when I was a tenure-track professor where tuition, fees, room, and board was more than the surrounding community's median household income.  Even the most blatant cheating with the starkest evidence resulted in the grade penalties being overturned every time upon student appeal to the academic standards committee.  Following the syllabus and the student handbook meant I was out of line because <retention and graduation>. 

I got those practices changed when I became an administrator to hold the line on our degrees meaning something.  We did not offer new contracts to a couple people who were reported to continue to have low standards, even after being officially warned in writing with concrete actions to take, and offered those part-time positions to people who would do the job including upholding academic standards.

Fear of being fired for doing the job indicates a seriously dysfunctional place from which one should be attempting to flee.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

pedanticromantic

Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 12:32:56 PM
Quote from: pedanticromantic on August 13, 2019, 10:08:51 AM
Quote from: downer on August 12, 2019, 02:35:53 PM
Wow, when did you semester start? Is this the fall semester?

We have summer semesters. I thought most places had some summer semesters? It's a compressed term, half the weeks but twice the hours per week...

I'm used to the terminology of "Summer Session." I also see it just called an "8-week" or a "5-week."

I suspect that students are more likely to try cheating in the summers because it is summer -- it feels less serious, and I also know quite a few professors don't bother to try fitting 15 weeks worth of work into the 8 weeks, the 5 weeks or even the 3 weeks. They just do a "lite" version of the course. That adds to the sense that it is a bit of a joke.

It's been this whole year that I'm seeing it.  And I definitely don't dumb things down or do a lite version of the course in summer.

pedanticromantic

Quote from: polly_mer on August 14, 2019, 05:07:31 AM

I got those practices changed when I became an administrator to hold the line on our degrees meaning something.  We did not offer new contracts to a couple people who were reported to continue to have low standards, even after being officially warned in writing with concrete actions to take, and offered those part-time positions to people who would do the job including upholding academic standards.


I'm wondering if the severity of penalties has an impact? I'm reminded of countries that have the death penalty (ahem) and yet do not have lower crime rates, for instance... does the severity of academic punishment reduce cheating?

FWIW, my school is weak in penalty in my opinion, often just giving them zero on the assignment, or at most putting it on their academic record.


RatGuy

Quote from: pedanticromantic on August 14, 2019, 06:26:50 AM
FWIW, my school is weak in penalty in my opinion, often just giving them zero on the assignment, or at most putting it on their academic record.

I find that students cheat for a lot of different reasons. Some do it because they're lazy and have been doing it all their academic careers. Some do it because they underestimate the work it'll take then panic as the due date nears. Some cheat because, as was pointed out above, "this assignment doesn't matter" or that "nobody cares (because none of this matters)." I see a lot of quiz copying, and I catch it with multiple copies of a quiz. Then I can make a general announcement to the class that this'll get you sent to the Dean. Less frequently I see out-and-out copy-and-paste jobs, and those get sent to the Dean. Faculty here aren't allowed to adjudicate plagiarism cases -- they get sent to the appropriate office. They say this is to standardize punishment and to centralize the list of cheating students. Here, a 2nd offence yields an F and community service, 3rd is expulsion.

All this to answer your question, I don't think students are thinking of punishment when they cheat. Someone on the Old Fora taught me that a combination of "I'm watching you" and "this is why this material/assignment is important" can be the antidote for a cheating class.

mahagonny

Quote from: polly_mer on August 14, 2019, 05:07:31 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on August 13, 2019, 08:19:38 AM
Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 06:54:48 AM
Cheating undermines the academic process, but we all know it happens. Devoting increasing resources to making sure that no students ever cheat means distorting the teaching process, and sometimes giving assignments that are not such good indicators of understanding, because they are harder to cheat on. I still come down hard on cheaters, but I've come to be more stoic about it.

And if you devote your resources to it, you'll likely be doing it without enough support.

Would this be a hijack if I mention the 'A' word? Probably...

I know nothing about the stresses and strains of climbing the ladder to tenure, but I can tell you this: higher education is neglecting the discipline and control of cheating anytime it has faculty who can be fired at any time for no reason, or any reason not required to be divulged. Individual chairs or deans may do their best to mitigate the structural flaw that creates this situation, but the situation is there.

My experience is different.  The question in my mind remains whether the institution has standards or is just collecting money for checking boxes.  The mere presence of part-time folks on short-term contracts is not the same as not having standards.

I had the most support for enforcing academic norms when I was an adjunct at an open-enrollment community college that was free to residents of the county.  That administration wanted the education we were providing to mean something so they were very supportive of professors who imposed penalties for cheating.  I got a kudos from the VP of Academic Affairs for reporting cheating to the appropriate committee.  Most classes were being taught by part-time folks on term-by-term contracts because that institution had such significant term-by-term enrollment fluctuation and a tight budget.  The ways to be on the adjunct "no more contracts" list for student cheating were to look the other way and take no steps to help students do the right thing.

I had substantial support when I was full-time non-TT at a regional comprehensive.  When a couple students filed complaints against me for enforcing rules preventing plagiarism, the dean's office took the evidence and worked through the process so I could focus on teaching.  The dean's office even gave me words of encouragement that I was doing the right thing because the students were in the wrong.

The place where I had the least support when I was a tenure-track professor where tuition, fees, room, and board was more than the surrounding community's median household income.  Even the most blatant cheating with the starkest evidence resulted in the grade penalties being overturned every time upon student appeal to the academic standards committee.  Following the syllabus and the student handbook meant I was out of line because <retention and graduation>. 

I got those practices changed when I became an administrator to hold the line on our degrees meaning something.  We did not offer new contracts to a couple people who were reported to continue to have low standards, even after being officially warned in writing with concrete actions to take, and offered those part-time positions to people who would do the job including upholding academic standards.

Fear of being fired for doing the job indicates a seriously dysfunctional place from which one should be attempting to flee.


That is quite a plan. Get the outsiders, the people who get the worst of your stingy practices, to save higher ed from ruining itself.

the_geneticist

Quote from: polly_mer on August 14, 2019, 05:07:31 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on August 13, 2019, 08:19:38 AM
Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 06:54:48 AM
Cheating undermines the academic process, but we all know it happens. Devoting increasing resources to making sure that no students ever cheat means distorting the teaching process, and sometimes giving assignments that are not such good indicators of understanding, because they are harder to cheat on. I still come down hard on cheaters, but I've come to be more stoic about it.

And if you devote your resources to it, you'll likely be doing it without enough support.

Would this be a hijack if I mention the 'A' word? Probably...

I know nothing about the stresses and strains of climbing the ladder to tenure, but I can tell you this: higher education is neglecting the discipline and control of cheating anytime it has faculty who can be fired at any time for no reason, or any reason not required to be divulged. Individual chairs or deans may do their best to mitigate the structural flaw that creates this situation, but the situation is there.

My experience is different.  The question in my mind remains whether the institution has standards or is just collecting money for checking boxes.  The mere presence of part-time folks on short-term contracts is not the same as not having standards.

I had the most support for enforcing academic norms when I was an adjunct at an open-enrollment community college that was free to residents of the county.  That administration wanted the education we were providing to mean something so they were very supportive of professors who imposed penalties for cheating.  I got a kudos from the VP of Academic Affairs for reporting cheating to the appropriate committee.  Most classes were being taught by part-time folks on term-by-term contracts because that institution had such significant term-by-term enrollment fluctuation and a tight budget.  The ways to be on the adjunct "no more contracts" list for student cheating were to look the other way and take no steps to help students do the right thing.

I had substantial support when I was full-time non-TT at a regional comprehensive.  When a couple students filed complaints against me for enforcing rules preventing plagiarism, the dean's office took the evidence and worked through the process so I could focus on teaching.  The dean's office even gave me words of encouragement that I was doing the right thing because the students were in the wrong.

The place where I had the least support when I was a tenure-track professor where tuition, fees, room, and board was more than the surrounding community's median household income.  Even the most blatant cheating with the starkest evidence resulted in the grade penalties being overturned every time upon student appeal to the academic standards committee.  Following the syllabus and the student handbook meant I was out of line because <retention and graduation>. 

I got those practices changed when I became an administrator to hold the line on our degrees meaning something.  We did not offer new contracts to a couple people who were reported to continue to have low standards, even after being officially warned in writing with concrete actions to take, and offered those part-time positions to people who would do the job including upholding academic standards.

Fear of being fired for doing the job indicates a seriously dysfunctional place from which one should be attempting to flee.

My experiences are also like polly_mer's.  The large, relatively inexpensive state school had a clear system for handling suspected academic dishonesty.  The gag-inducing-ly expensive private SLAC would tell us that we must be unclear in our expectations/not giving students enough support/we didn't want out students to succeed, even with documented blatant cheating.  Because each student is a walking tuition payment special and must be allowed every opportunity for paying tuition until graduation success.

mahagonny

#22
Quote from: the_geneticist on August 14, 2019, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on August 14, 2019, 05:07:31 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on August 13, 2019, 08:19:38 AM
Quote from: downer on August 13, 2019, 06:54:48 AM
Cheating undermines the academic process, but we all know it happens. Devoting increasing resources to making sure that no students ever cheat means distorting the teaching process, and sometimes giving assignments that are not such good indicators of understanding, because they are harder to cheat on. I still come down hard on cheaters, but I've come to be more stoic about it.

And if you devote your resources to it, you'll likely be doing it without enough support.

Would this be a hijack if I mention the 'A' word? Probably...

I know nothing about the stresses and strains of climbing the ladder to tenure, but I can tell you this: higher education is neglecting the discipline and control of cheating anytime it has faculty who can be fired at any time for no reason, or any reason not required to be divulged. Individual chairs or deans may do their best to mitigate the structural flaw that creates this situation, but the situation is there.

My experience is different.  The question in my mind remains whether the institution has standards or is just collecting money for checking boxes.  The mere presence of part-time folks on short-term contracts is not the same as not having standards.

I had the most support for enforcing academic norms when I was an adjunct at an open-enrollment community college that was free to residents of the county.  That administration wanted the education we were providing to mean something so they were very supportive of professors who imposed penalties for cheating.  I got a kudos from the VP of Academic Affairs for reporting cheating to the appropriate committee.  Most classes were being taught by part-time folks on term-by-term contracts because that institution had such significant term-by-term enrollment fluctuation and a tight budget.  The ways to be on the adjunct "no more contracts" list for student cheating were to look the other way and take no steps to help students do the right thing.

I had substantial support when I was full-time non-TT at a regional comprehensive.  When a couple students filed complaints against me for enforcing rules preventing plagiarism, the dean's office took the evidence and worked through the process so I could focus on teaching.  The dean's office even gave me words of encouragement that I was doing the right thing because the students were in the wrong.

The place where I had the least support when I was a tenure-track professor where tuition, fees, room, and board was more than the surrounding community's median household income.  Even the most blatant cheating with the starkest evidence resulted in the grade penalties being overturned every time upon student appeal to the academic standards committee.  Following the syllabus and the student handbook meant I was out of line because <retention and graduation>. 

I got those practices changed when I became an administrator to hold the line on our degrees meaning something.  We did not offer new contracts to a couple people who were reported to continue to have low standards, even after being officially warned in writing with concrete actions to take, and offered those part-time positions to people who would do the job including upholding academic standards.

Fear of being fired for doing the job indicates a seriously dysfunctional place from which one should be attempting to flee.

My experiences are also like polly_mer's.  The large, relatively inexpensive state school had a clear system for handling suspected academic dishonesty.  The gag-inducing-ly expensive private SLAC would tell us that we must be unclear in our expectations/not giving students enough support/we didn't want out students to succeed, even with documented blatant cheating.  Because each student is a walking tuition payment special and must be allowed every opportunity for paying tuition until graduation success.

i certainly wouldn't quarrel with what you tell us your experiences have been. i wasn't identifying where neglect of the problem is the worst anyway. And I don't see you using the internet to throw a wet blanket on adjunct faculty's laudable efforts to have a voice, just cause for termination, a little standing in the community, decent pay etc.

Moderator Note: Edited to remove ad hominem.


Parasaurolophus

Agh. For the final papers in this into-level class, I gave students a choice between two articles not covered in class. They were to critically assess the text and explain either why they agree with the author, or why their critical assessment reaches a different conclusion.

Stu Dent's paper is a 1200-word chunk of the original article that's been wrung through a thesaurus.


Like... did she really think I wouldn't notice?
I know it's a genus.

polly_mer

#25
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on December 11, 2019, 08:00:21 PM
Like... did she really think I wouldn't notice?

Yes.  They barely read anything and remember very little of what they read, so they're sure we have the same experience.  There's seldom any awareness on their parts that we bring a very different experience to the same class as they do.

For no particular reason, this brings up the memory of one plagiarist. On the first skim of the paper, I was impressed because I get papers on this topic all the time and this was a different take.  However, this particular plagiarist submitted an electronic paper with the hyperlinks still embedded.  Following the hyperlinks led to other parts of the plagiarized website with zero references in the bibliography to any part of that particular website.  When I called the student on it, she insisted that I had no evidence that she plagiarized.  Her father called me and insisted that I had no evidence the student plagiarized.  The dean, however, thought that was a slam dunk on plagiarism for unique wording that would appear only on this particular website.

Still on the question of do they think we won't notice, I remember a math class in which everyone bombed the first test so hard that I made them take it back and redo it as a take-home exam because they had to master this material before we went on.  I told them not to consult each other, but fully expected some group discussion on problems and didn't really care as long as people learned enough to go forward. 

However, one student submitted a redone item that was word-for-word a different student's minor (and unique) error along with word-for-word my comment on the error.  Think along the lines of "This is a six-sided object with <properties>.  Oops, miscount on this seven-sided object."  Again, the department chair thought this was a clear example of cheating while both students swore up and down that they didn't consult and this was just a coincidence.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

0susanna

Are there more cheaters lately? I can't speak for everywhere, but anecdotally, the numbers have risen since My University started offering athletic scholarships in a certain sport. One colleague had to report half a class (not necessarily all athletes) for plagiarism--a career record. I only had one in my class, but it was a doozy--3/4 of the paper a lightly edited copy of an essay offered on one of those "homework help" sites. The "editing" caused some stupid errors that tipped me off. I suspect this student has some serious learning disability, though, and probably hasn't done any of his own work all semester. His final exam, which included an "open book" section, was completely random. If his work is being done for him by athletic tutors, this isn't going to end well.

Aster


Cheaters. I sometimes have those. At least a cheater is motivated enough to cheat.

Let me tell you another story.

I just wrapped up a class where only 20% of them passed. Yes, only 20%.

For the students that even bothered to come in and take the final exam, half of those students didn't even have the "cheat sheet" that they're allowed to use. They all know about it, they've been allowed them all semester for every exam, and the cheat sheets are very permissive (you get an entire full-sized sheet of paper to put whatever you want on it).

But were all of these students even motivated enough to make an "authorized and approved" cheat sheet? NO.

I don't know if behaviors like this earmarks somebody as stupid, hopelessly apathetic, or a combination of the two. But it certainly does a good job identifying who belongs in college and who does not.


downer

Quote from: 0susanna on December 12, 2019, 09:23:10 AM
Are there more cheaters lately? I can't speak for everywhere, but anecdotally, the numbers have risen since My University started offering athletic scholarships in a certain sport. One colleague had to report half a class (not necessarily all athletes) for plagiarism--a career record. I only had one in my class, but it was a doozy--3/4 of the paper a lightly edited copy of an essay offered on one of those "homework help" sites. The "editing" caused some stupid errors that tipped me off. I suspect this student has some serious learning disability, though, and probably hasn't done any of his own work all semester. His final exam, which included an "open book" section, was completely random. If his work is being done for him by athletic tutors, this isn't going to end well.

Probably. I doubt there will be anything better than anecdotal evidence. We have had the internet for decades now and there are plenty of inventives for students to cheat, along with a surprising number of places that are reluctant to do a whole lot when students get caught, presumably because of the students=customers mentality. Even when there is a mechanism to deal with cheating, it is often onerous for the professor to engage with it, and it is much easier to give the student a low grade but not involve any that official apparatus.

Now there are websites like this one https://www.advancedwriters.com/inquiry.html which are probably very tempting for students who need a degree but can't do the work themselves.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

Antiphon1

A parent of a current student just bragged on Facebook about writing their child's paper for my class.  WTF?