Author Topic: Somebody Finally Says It  (Read 2065 times)

ergative

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2020, 07:24:52 AM »
Well, Brett Hankison, John Mattingly, and Myles Cosgrove still haven't been charged with anything. And Eddie Gallagher was pardoned. And no charges were ever brought against Daniel Pantaleo.  I don't really think my statement was hyperbolic.

I agree that as an academic, it's on us to "examine issues deeply and consider all of the nuances to arrive at a rational, if necessarily complex interpretation." But 'How dare you be so hyperbolic! Just for that I'm out of here!' doesn't sound like that.

If you don't want to engage I can't make you. But I'll never approve of it, and I'm not going to accept any responsibility for 'look what you made me do'.


theblackbox

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2020, 07:29:45 AM »
I will keep my response brief.

A good example of sincere, research backed reform to reduce police brutality, with a quick way to see how many of these policies are already enacted in your city and a way to contact your mayor to encourage them to enact them:
https://8cantwait.org/

The definition of white supremacy is: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." If you are not against this concept, it means you are neutral toward or endorse the idea that whites are superior and should dominate. Such reduction of human dignity of other people based on the color of their skin is repugnant, and I would not want any educational system I am a part of to tolerate such people among their faculty.

Increased gun control would do a lot of good on many fronts in this country. So would increasing police education requirements. There are abundant resources from other countries on how to take these steps, and we would be wise to work on them.

Anyone more offended by being encouraged to read a book than they are by the fact that Breonna Taylor's murderer has yet to be charged should sincerely reflect on the time and energy they have used to express outrage toward reading lists. I agree we need to have space for civil, rational conversation in academia, especially on topics that may otherwise seem one-sided in the court of public opinion; those suggestions must come from sincere curiosity and openness to the search for real truth, not a spiteful place that tries to diminish the murders and violence against a group of people.

writingprof

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2020, 08:56:56 AM »
Increased gun control would do a lot of good on many fronts in this country.

Should police have entered CHAZ (CHOP? CHODE?) to stop the illegal distribution of semiautomatic rifles, which was caught on video and can be easily viewed online?  Why or why not?

marshwiggle

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2020, 09:27:46 AM »

The definition of white supremacy is: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." If you are not against this concept, it means you are neutral toward or endorse the idea that whites are superior and should dominate.


I have never actually met anyone who claimed that.
And in our current climate, it's not about whether people are against white supremacy, but to what lengths they will go to claim that they are against it.

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Such reduction of human dignity of other people based on the color of their skin is repugnant, and I would not want any educational system I am a part of to tolerate such people among their faculty.

Absolutely. Which is why blaming "whiteness" for all kinds of evil is as repugnant as blaming "blackness" (or any other ethnic distinction). Unfortunately, the education system does in fact tolerate such people among their faculty.




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Increased gun control would do a lot of good on many fronts in this country. So would increasing police education requirements. There are abundant resources from other countries on how to take these steps, and we would be wise to work on them.

I would guess a majority of the population would agree with this.

Quote
 
Anyone more offended by being encouraged to read a book than they are by the fact that Breonna Taylor's murderer has yet to be charged should sincerely reflect on the time and energy they have used to express outrage toward reading lists. I agree we need to have space for civil, rational conversation in academia, especially on topics that may otherwise seem one-sided in the court of public opinion; those suggestions must come from sincere curiosity and openness to the search for real truth, not a spiteful place that tries to diminish the murders and violence against a group of people.

In a lot of these discussions, murders and violence are diminished when they are perpetrated by members of the same group of people as the victim. The number of people killed by gangs is astronomically bigger than the number killed by police, but that doesn't cause riots in the streets.
It takes so little to be above average.

mahagonny

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2020, 09:38:06 AM »

The definition of white supremacy is: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." If you are not against this concept, it means you are neutral toward or endorse the idea that whites are superior and should dominate.


I have never actually met anyone who claimed that.


It's not what you, the white guy,  say you believe that implicates you. It's what you won't say but know in your heart you believe, or else it's what you truly believe about race that you don't know you believe that comes out in micro aggressions. Or it's....stay tuned. I'll update as things develop.
Maybe they could get white supremacist sniffing hounds.
I actually feel sorry for these folks who are who are fixating on this.
'I'm not talking. It just don't pay.' - Mose Allison

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Treehugger

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2020, 09:43:54 AM »
The definition of white supremacy is: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." If you are not against this concept, it means you are neutral toward or endorse the idea that whites are superior and should dominate.

Look, I am pretty sure no one here believes whites are inherently superior to other races or believes that it is OK to hold this view. But this does not actually reflect the current (and, in my book, unfortunate) usage of  the phrase “white supremacist.” If you have been paying attention, you will have noticed that now a “white supremacist” essentially is any white person who has any role no matter how peripheral is helping a supposedly underlying and all-encompassing system of white privilege. In other words, any white person.

My husband, who has sincerely worked to increase diversity in STEM and most certainly does not believe “whites are a superior race“ was called a white supremacist in the literature that circulate with the #shutdownSTEM movement. He asked why and was told that some computer scientists have made software tools (like facial recognition) that have been used by police departments against blacks. So, if you follow this “logic,” he is a “white supremacist” because he is white and a computer scientist. Wow! To his credit, he wasn’t upset by this, but kept on being his typical understanding self, always ready to listen. But I was pretty  pissed off on his behalf. I have made the decision that I will not be joining in any movement that relies on racial slurs (let’s call a spade a spade) or relies on guilt by association (like all good witch-hunting groups).

I can come up with many, many more examples of what “white supremacy” really “means” now, but if you are honest, you will spare me the effort.

Baldwinschild

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2020, 11:45:24 AM »
I will keep my response brief.

A good example of sincere, research backed reform to reduce police brutality, with a quick way to see how many of these policies are already enacted in your city and a way to contact your mayor to encourage them to enact them:
https://8cantwait.org/

The definition of white supremacy is: "the belief that white people are superior to those of all other races, especially the black race, and should therefore dominate society." If you are not against this concept, it means you are neutral toward or endorse the idea that whites are superior and should dominate. Such reduction of human dignity of other people based on the color of their skin is repugnant, and I would not want any educational system I am a part of to tolerate such people among their faculty.

Increased gun control would do a lot of good on many fronts in this country. So would increasing police education requirements. There are abundant resources from other countries on how to take these steps, and we would be wise to work on them.

Anyone more offended by being encouraged to read a book than they are by the fact that Breonna Taylor's murderer has yet to be charged should sincerely reflect on the time and energy they have used to express outrage toward reading lists. I agree we need to have space for civil, rational conversation in academia, especially on topics that may otherwise seem one-sided in the court of public opinion; those suggestions must come from sincere curiosity and openness to the search for real truth, not a spiteful place that tries to diminish the murders and violence against a group of people.

This. 
“Silence were better.”  -- Charles Chesnutt

mahagonny

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2020, 05:34:08 PM »
Whomever will dominate tomorrow is something for us to speculate about. There are black people, Korean people, female people, Chinese people, gay people, male whiteys in my classrooms who would love to dominate or outdo me someday soon. I'm still running hard, but they may do it. When it happens, I'm gonna say I helped.
'I'm not talking. It just don't pay.' - Mose Allison

(note to self - delete signature line)

Baldwinschild

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2020, 05:40:21 PM »
Whomever will dominate tomorrow is something for us to speculate about. There are black people, Korean people, female people, Chinese people, gay people, male whiteys in my classrooms who would love to dominate or outdo me someday soon. I'm still running hard, but they may do it. When it happens, I'm gonna say I helped.
Interesting that you think of it in terms of “domination.”  I think many people would be happy with equal treatment and a peaceful coexistence. 
“Silence were better.”  -- Charles Chesnutt

mahagonny

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2020, 06:20:11 PM »
Whomever will dominate tomorrow is something for us to speculate about. There are black people, Korean people, female people, Chinese people, gay people, male whiteys in my classrooms who would love to dominate or outdo me someday soon. I'm still running hard, but they may do it. When it happens, I'm gonna say I helped.
Interesting that you think of it in terms of “domination.”  I think many people would be happy with equal treatment and a peaceful coexistence.

Actually I think it gets dull quickly to think of competition too much but you and bento are railing about domination, so I thought I'd stay on topic. And it's true, there can be a time when one acknowledges the student has surpassed the professor. That is win-win.

My students are happy with my treatment. I am an adjunct. I could be replaced with a minimum of hassle. Kindly stop accusing me.

Your response was quite inane in my opinion.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 06:26:25 PM by mahagonny »
'I'm not talking. It just don't pay.' - Mose Allison

(note to self - delete signature line)

Baldwinschild

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2020, 07:56:01 PM »
Whomever will dominate tomorrow is something for us to speculate about. There are black people, Korean people, female people, Chinese people, gay people, male whiteys in my classrooms who would love to dominate or outdo me someday soon. I'm still running hard, but they may do it. When it happens, I'm gonna say I helped.
Interesting that you think of it in terms of “domination.”  I think many people would be happy with equal treatment and a peaceful coexistence.

Actually I think it gets dull quickly to think of competition too much but you and bento are railing about domination, so I thought I'd stay on topic. And it's true, there can be a time when one acknowledges the student has surpassed the professor. That is win-win.

My students are happy with my treatment. I am an adjunct. I could be replaced with a minimum of hassle. Kindly stop accusing me.

Your response was quite inane in my opinion.

It is the response you’ve been wanting all along.  It would please you to be called a racist or to be accused of expressing racist comments on this board.  I’ve said nothing about domination; I simply commented on the way the word is being used in this context. 
It is all gaslighting on your part, really.  It is so tedious.  It is so old, so boring.  You wanted to vent, so you did. 
Your rhetoric is not new.  You are speaking into a space that is safe for you; academics value free expression too much to call you a racist for making racist statements.  In this way, your cowardice is also old and tedious.  But you want to be persecuted for feeling and saying these things.  So you keep making inflammatory and provocative statements. 
You lack the conviction and backbone to stand up for your own convictions.  So someone else has to kick you in the groin.  It’s so damn old.  And it’s so very much about you. 
“Silence were better.”  -- Charles Chesnutt

mamselle

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2020, 09:03:13 PM »
It's threads like this when I miss The Fiona....

M.
Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Reprove not a scorner, lest they hate thee: rebuke the wise, and they will love thee.

Give instruction to the wise, and they will be yet wiser: teach the just, and they will increase in learning.

mahagonny

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2020, 09:57:44 PM »
It's threads like this when I miss The Fiona....

M.

It's was just getting interesting. Shelby Steele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMpQBWH-RwA

And it’s so very much about you. 

All purpose lame put down. It would be less about me if you commented on the discussions linked instead of about me. Yes, I suppose I can tend to post provocatively. I'm not always crazy about the culture of academia, it's true.

Baldwinschild, why don't you tell us what you think of what they black conservative scholars have been saying, if and when you get the urge? You have something interesting to say, I'll bet.
'I'm not talking. It just don't pay.' - Mose Allison

(note to self - delete signature line)

Baldwinschild

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2020, 10:32:56 PM »
It's threads like this when I miss The Fiona....

M.

It's was just getting interesting. Shelby Steele: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMpQBWH-RwA

And it’s so very much about you. 

All purpose lame put down. It would be less about me if you commented on the discussions linked instead of about me. Yes, I suppose I can tend to post provocatively. I'm not always crazy about the culture of academia, it's true.

Baldwinschild, why don't you tell us what you think of what they black conservative scholars have been saying, if and when you get the urge? You have something interesting to say, I'll bet.
I don’t have anything to say about they are saying. 
“Silence were better.”  -- Charles Chesnutt

Ancient Fellow

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Re: Somebody Finally Says It
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2020, 02:51:13 AM »
I don’t have anything to say about they are saying.

If you don't want to engage I can't make you.