Author Topic: Vaccination nation  (Read 817 times)

downer

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Vaccination nation
« on: December 23, 2020, 07:05:08 AM »
So now that 2 vaccines are available, a number of issues arise.

What priority will college faculty be given in the waiting lists? Will they be classed as "teachers"?

I'm also wondering whether health insurance will cover it, and how much it will cost.

Then there's the issue of whether colleges will require faculty to get it in order to be on campus. Could it be required as a condition of employment? Will it be? Will there be lawsuits about that?

Will students be required to get vaccinated to be on campus in the fall? Is it realistic to expect to back to "normal" in the fall?



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Puget

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2020, 07:19:12 AM »
I think the answer to most of these are actually already known:
Quote
What priority will college faculty be given in the waiting lists? Will they be classed as "teachers"?
Almost certainly not, though ultimately each state will decide.
Quote
I'm also wondering whether health insurance will cover it, and how much it will cost.
Assuming you are in the US, there is no cost to the individual-- the federal government has purchased the doses.
Quote
Then there's the issue of whether colleges will require faculty to get it in order to be on campus. Could it be required as a condition of employment? Will it be? Will there be lawsuits about that?
There is legal precedence for employers requiring vaccinations as a condition of employment, so I expect most will.
Quote
Will students be required to get vaccinated to be on campus in the fall? Is it realistic to expect to back to "normal" in the fall?
There is no question that students can legally be required to have vaccinations -- they are already required to provide proof of other vaccinations on most campuses. So provided there are enough doses available, yes, I'm sure they will be, and that would let things go pretty much back to normal. Whether that happens at the start of fall semester or not until a bit later I think still isn't clear.
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clean

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2020, 07:42:37 AM »
I agree that it is unlikely that university employees/faculty probably wont be in the first round of vaccinations as essential employees.

I agree that the government purchased the vaccine and that there will not be a charge for the vaccine.  (However, depending on how or where the shots are given, there may be an administration fee for those giving the shots, but insurance should cover that, and otherwise, it is not likely to be more than $25, tops).

I dont think that the vaccine will be required, though.  However, I dont think that the university will be as eager to keep providing accommodations for those requesting online classes once the vaccine is available.  IF you choose NOT to get the shot, you can not require the university to provide you special scheduling.

As for students being required to get the shots, I dont think that the university will do ANYTHING to keep students (' tuition dollars) from returning as quickly as possible. 

The combination of the faculty being able/required to teach in person, and students not being required to take the shot, I think that there will be sufficient motivation for faculty to get the shots.  Students are still at the 'invincible age' and as they have generally not had significant deaths, or in the case of asymptomatic spreaders, any negative affects, they may be slow to take it, and even if they wanted, would likely be lower on the list gaining access.

Just my thoughts.  Im sure that the devil is in the details.
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marshwiggle

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2020, 07:47:10 AM »

As for students being required to get the shots, I dont think that the university will do ANYTHING to keep students (' tuition dollars) from returning as quickly as possible. 


If there are students who can't get the shots for some medical reason, then will the university be liable if they are put at risk by (voluntarily) unvacinated students? This is a kind of mess I can envision.
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apl68

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2020, 07:58:12 AM »
How about university staff?  I assume that most of them won't be high on the vaccination priority list either.  Except, in some areas perhaps, food service workers. 

Nobody has said anything about librarians falling into essential worker categories, although we work with the public.  I'm wondering what to do about staff vaccinations in a few months.  I plan to get the shot as soon as it's available.  But we've got one staff member who has had an allergic reaction to a vaccine in the past, and another who sounds like she's been listening to the wrong kind of radio programs and doesn't want to take a vaccine.  I don't care to force anybody to get a vaccine, but at some point whether or not a staff member has been vaccinated will become an issue.
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downer

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2020, 07:58:48 AM »
How will people prove they have been vaccinated? Is there going to be a state or national registry? (Hard to imagine politicians going for this in the US.) Will there be standard forms signed by some health care professional? If so, will there be a market in fake certifications among those who resist vaccinations but need to show their employers or schools they have done it?
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Caracal

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2020, 08:01:10 AM »
I think the answer to most of these are actually already known:
Quote
What priority will college faculty be given in the waiting lists? Will they be classed as "teachers"?
Almost certainly not, though ultimately each state will decide.
Quote
I'm also wondering whether health insurance will cover it, and how much it will cost.
Assuming you are in the US, there is no cost to the individual-- the federal government has purchased the doses.
Quote
Then there's the issue of whether colleges will require faculty to get it in order to be on campus. Could it be required as a condition of employment? Will it be? Will there be lawsuits about that?
There is legal precedence for employers requiring vaccinations as a condition of employment, so I expect most will.
Quote
Will students be required to get vaccinated to be on campus in the fall? Is it realistic to expect to back to "normal" in the fall?
There is no question that students can legally be required to have vaccinations -- they are already required to provide proof of other vaccinations on most campuses. So provided there are enough doses available, yes, I'm sure they will be, and that would let things go pretty much back to normal. Whether that happens at the start of fall semester or not until a bit later I think still isn't clear.

I guess there could be some justification for instructors being somewhere above the "general population" on the waiting list, but I'd hope it will be below lots of other people, including teachers, who either can't stay home or shouldn't.

My employer required everyone-even people who haven't set foot on campus since March, to attest that they had received the flu vaccine or had a valid medical reason not to receive it. I assume they'll at least do that for the Covid Vaccine in the fall if it is fully available.

The problem with predictions is that you run into a bunch of different variables that are all very uncertain. There's the question of how quickly production and distribution of the vaccines can actually be done-but there are also still lots of vaccine trials in the works that might have results in the next two months. Those could potentially really increase the supply. Then there's the question of how much the vaccines will limit spread of the virus by inoculated people. If vaccines have a big effect on transmission, you could have case numbers go way down once you start getting large segments of the population vaccinated even before you reach anything approaching herd immunity. But that's a lot of different uncertainties to throw into the blender.

Caracal

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2020, 08:15:54 AM »

As for students being required to get the shots, I dont think that the university will do ANYTHING to keep students (' tuition dollars) from returning as quickly as possible. 


If there are students who can't get the shots for some medical reason, then will the university be liable if they are put at risk by (voluntarily) unvacinated students? This is a kind of mess I can envision.

Most schools already require students to have vaccinations. A couple of semesters ago I got a message that a student in my class couldn't come to class until they showed proof of their vaccinations. Not sure what the backstory was, but a few days later I got another note that the student was cleared to come to class. We had to sign an attestation that we got the flu vaccine this winter. I imagine lots of schools might do something similar. In the long run, this could be part of the standard vaccination forms, but I suspect that it might not be logistically feasible to actually verify that everyone has gotten the vaccine. I don't really know anything about the legal issues, but none of this is brand new and I assume you have to clear a pretty high bar to sue an institution or business based on acquiring a disease. 

mamselle

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2020, 08:17:39 AM »
Yes to the uncertainties of coverage, in particular.

Remember that Cotton Mather and Zabdiel Boylston's first innoculation trial only reduced the smallpox death rate from 15% to--what? 4-6%

Out of the 200+ people in that trial, several still died, just not 30 of them.

No preventative effort is perfectly efficacious.

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Puget

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2020, 08:34:38 AM »
How will people prove they have been vaccinated? Is there going to be a state or national registry? (Hard to imagine politicians going for this in the US.) Will there be standard forms signed by some health care professional? If so, will there be a market in fake certifications among those who resist vaccinations but need to show their employers or schools they have done it?

There is a CDC record card, and an app: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/expect.html
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Caracal

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2020, 08:37:58 AM »
Yes to the uncertainties of coverage, in particular.

Remember that Cotton Mather and Zabdiel Boylston's first innoculation trial only reduced the smallpox death rate from 15% to--what? 4-6%

Out of the 200+ people in that trial, several still died, just not 30 of them.

No preventative effort is perfectly efficacious.

M.

No, but the good news is that the two approved vaccines both do much better than that, and the early signs are that they tend to prevent severe disease too.

mythbuster

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2020, 08:40:34 AM »
I think we are about to see the ultimate in states rights, as every state has the right to interpret these rules as they see fit. If your state lumps university workers in with teachers or essential workers, then you will get the vaccine faster.

In terms of it being required, there is a big difference here in terms of how it has been approved. These vaccines have been approved for emergency use. It is my understanding from reading in public health sources that EU authorization cannot be used for the same legal mandate as other vaccinations. But again, your state may have their own interpretation.

When you get vaccinated you get a card. It is signed by the overseeing physician and has the information about which lot your dose came from.  This info can be a sticker from the vial or can be handwritten. My friend who are PCPs have been posting photos of their vaccination cards on Facebook this week as they get their first dose.

larryc

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2020, 02:49:33 PM »
I expect that nearly all universities will require proof of vaccination from students and staff.

mamselle

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2020, 03:27:23 PM »
Yes to the uncertainties of coverage, in particular.

Remember that Cotton Mather and Zabdiel Boylston's first innoculation trial only reduced the smallpox death rate from 15% to--what? 4-6%

Out of the 200+ people in that trial, several still died, just not 30 of them.

No preventative effort is perfectly efficacious.

M.

No, but the good news is that the two approved vaccines both do much better than that, and the early signs are that they tend to prevent severe disease too.

True.

We have come a little ways since 1721.

But all the brou-ha-ha's about whether it's safe or not, and who gets it, and "not in my neighborhood," all that were just as pernicious then as now, too.

So--maybe not so far.

M.
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RatGuy

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Re: Vaccination nation
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2020, 07:52:14 AM »
Our Dean has relayed that we'll get access to the Pfizer vaccine sometime between mid-Jan and mid-March, depending on availability. It'll be administered through the University medical center, and will be optional. Since the university is pushing for more in-class instruction (we traced zero cases of contact to the classroom in fall 2020), instructors are encouraged to get the vaccines. I find it interesting that my colleagues who most want the vaccine are the ones who have opted out of in-person instruction. I do think the University will prioritize those instructors who will regularly be in the classroom or live on-campus.