Author Topic: Impeachment  (Read 16295 times)

mamselle

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2019, 06:13:42 AM »
Dread thought:

in a Len Deighton novel, the whistleblower would be a Trump plant, intended to set off impeachment proceedings so Trump could play the martyr, just in time for the next elections....

May it never be...

M.
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downer

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2019, 06:24:14 AM »
The initiatives coming out of the WH seem to be ones scripted by leaders of large corporations. Other stuff happens, but those personal advisors couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery. So Len Deighton plots are unlikely.
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Parasaurolophus

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2019, 09:40:45 AM »
FWIW, it sounds to me like the Hunter Biden thing is potentially a perfectly legitimate instance of corruption. I hope nobody loses sight of that amidst the excitement about this other bit of corruption.

Looks like I'm mostly wrong, and should know better than to trust the story as it's given!

Here's the original Biden/Hunter story by James Risen in the NYT--from 2015.

Here's a follow-up by Robert Mackey debunking the conspiracy theory in The Intercept back in May 2019.

And an update from James Risen in The Intercept today.

Also interesting to see how a story which I thought came out of nowhere did nothing of the sort. And how we've actually known about the new impeachable offense for about four months now. And how much of an orange own-goal it is (like all the others, to be sure).
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downer

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2019, 09:56:18 AM »
My local congressman has followed the Lindsay Graham script and said that the released document summarizing the phone conversation shows absolutely no wrongdoing.

Of course, there's no question that that is a bare faced lie. Presumably that will not bother the most hardcore supporters of Agent Orange. As he pointed out, he could kill someone out in the open and they would still follow him.

But I do wonder how it will play with the regular Republicans who voted for these politicians. I know I could not vote for a Democrat who was so willing to blithely ignore a president openly trading aid for a foreign country for political favors.
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Diogenes

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2019, 05:06:13 PM »
My local congressman has followed the Lindsay Graham script and said that the released document summarizing the phone conversation shows absolutely no wrongdoing.



That's straight from the White House's talking points sent to republican allies and accidentally leaked to democrats

https://theweek.com/speedreads/867641/white-house-accidentally-emailed-ukraine-talking-points-nancy-pelosi

Parasaurolophus

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2019, 05:47:59 PM »
Ahahahahahaha

They're already falling apart under the pressure. This is *not* what any of them want.

Also: Barr is directly implicated, and will have to recuse himself, even if he never followed through.
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nebo113

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2019, 04:21:57 AM »
Ahahahahahaha

They're already falling apart under the pressure. This is *not* what any of them want.

Also: Barr is directly implicated, and will have to recuse himself, even if he never followed through.

Barr will NOT recuse himself; remember Jeff Sessions.  And Roy Cohn is 45's mentor and role model......Cohn never fell apart .....

mamselle

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2019, 09:03:40 AM »
The Hearing Is VERY Interesting...

M.
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spork

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2019, 09:54:54 AM »
The Hearing Is VERY Interesting...

M.

The letter sent by Michael Atkinson to Congress (detailing the whistleblower's complaint) is even better. For example, from the appendix:

"According to multiple White House officials I spoke with, the transcript of the President's call with President Zelenskyy was placed into a computer system managed directly by the National Security Council (NSC) Directorate for Intelligence Programs. This is a standalone computer system reserved for codeword-level intelligence information, such as covert action. According to information I received from White House officials, some officials voiced concerns internally that this would be an abuse of the system and was not consistent with the responsibilities of the Directorate for Intelligence Programs. According to White House officials I spoke with, this was 'not the first time' under this Administration that a Presidential transcript was placed into this codeword-level system solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive—rather than national security sensitive—information."

Also (earlier in the complaint):

"The White House officials who told me this information were deeply disturbed by what had transpired in the phone call. They told me that there was already a 'discussion ongoing' with White House lawyers about how to treat the call because of the likelihood, in the officials' retelling, that they had witnessed the President abuse his office for personal gain."


A reporter needs to ask Mitch McConnell if he will recuse himself from Senatorial impeachment proceedings given that his wife is the Secretary of Transportation.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 10:05:14 AM by spork »

Anselm

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2019, 02:55:30 PM »
Rob Kall reveals the true motive:
https://www.opednews.com/articles/Impeachment-Chess-Part-2--by-Rob-Kall-Impeachment-190925-100.html

“The idea should be to keep the impeachment going as long as possible, with new testimonies and new releases of disclosures of alleged corruption and treason on a regular basis.

“Looking at impeachment as a process for removing the president is the wrong way of thinking about it. Looking at it as a key that gives access to investigative tools is the smarter, more strategic, way of looking at it.

“Ideally, it will get so bad for Trump that the Republicans will end up putting up someone else to run in the general election.

“But keeping him under investigation, at least through the November election, will increasingly erode the support of both Trump and the Republican party brand, making a Democratic takeover of the Senate and the White House, and an increased control of the House even more likely.”

Hegemony

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2019, 05:59:45 PM »
But do the Republicans want someone other than Trump to run in the next election?  The devotion many of his followers have for Trump seems far in excess of any kind of loyalty for people like Bush (either Bush), or any common-or-garden standard-issue Republican politician.  I would think they would want to hang on to that zeal, not infuriate those voters by ousting Trump.

polly_mer

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2019, 09:40:48 PM »
But do the Republicans want someone other than Trump to run in the next election?  The devotion many of his followers have for Trump seems far in excess of any kind of loyalty for people like Bush (either Bush), or any common-or-garden standard-issue Republican politician.  I would think they would want to hang on to that zeal, not infuriate those voters by ousting Trump.

Trump currently has about a 40% approval rating (https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/) and incumbent presidents tend to have an advantage.  I don't see a strong Republican anyone waiting in the wings just ready to run and blow Trump out of the water.  I can think of a couple I'd love to see run, but I don't think 2020 is their year for a variety of reasons specific to the candidates themselves.
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irhack

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2019, 05:25:05 AM »
Trump has a 91% approval rating among Republicans, https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx, they love this guy.

polly_mer

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #43 on: September 27, 2019, 06:09:13 AM »
Trump has a 91% approval rating among Republicans, https://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/presidential-approval-ratings-donald-trump.aspx, they love this guy.

If someone actually wanted to try to change minds, then they'd be running someone who has similar goals, less baggage, and better plans instead of continuing to beat the drum for Trump's a bad guy.  In many quarters, the basic assumption is that high-level politicians and wealthy folks are corrupt, underhanded assholes who do whatever they can to get ahead.  Pointing out specific instances of wrongdoing is much like pointing out that water is wet.  Yep, someone with power pulls strings and tends to have sexual practices strongly dependent on what they can get away with.  How is that surprising to someone who made it past kindergarten?

I think of Marion Berry who got re-elected after serving time in prison.  I think of the parade of former Illinois governors who went to prison.  The Roosevelt quote holds true in many quarters:

[Roosevelt's] Secretary of State, Sumner Welles, once said "Somoza's a bastard!" And Roosevelt replied, "Yes, but he's our bastard."

Wanting a different world is distinct from being realistic about what is available to one in the current world.  Having a bastard on one's side is often a smart strategy for those who don't have power and have no way to get power.  Dogooders are often viewed with suspicion because they aren't ruthless enough to do what needs to be done to make a big change when resources are limited and situations are complex.  Anyone with enough free time can go meet the masses, eat regional food, and feel the people's pain.  A bastard will say, "Make it so because I have power", and have a good shot at getting something done.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 06:13:23 AM by polly_mer »
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mamselle

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Re: Impeachment
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2019, 12:56:42 AM »
I'm becoming very concerned for the whistleblower's safety.

Things like Geraldo Rivera's live TV echo of DT's threats, that he'd like to do this person harm, are irresponsible in several ways; worst of all that, like the four knights who killed Thomas a Becket, someone will believe they are doing "the right thing" by discovering, outing, and silencing someone whose only crime, like that of most prophets, is to speak the truth about the present.

And the discovery of further "hidden" transcripts is likewise of concern.

This is more than an 18 min.gap.

Echoing the Friday haiku, "How did we, indeed, get here?"

M.
Forsake the foolish, and live; and go in the way of understanding.

Reprove not a scorner, lest they hate thee: rebuke the wise, and they will love thee.

Give instruction to the wise, and they will be yet wiser: teach the just, and they will increase in learning.