For those of you who are wondering, "face time" is a term used for the act of being present at your place of work. Recently, I've been struggling with how important face time is in today's digital world where we are able to get into contact with people via text, email, and phone, at basically anytime of the day.
My recommendation to graduate students is that they have to be mindful of this, that being present at the office and seen working hard can cultivate a reputation of reliability and good work ethic. I do not set hard lines about how much face time is needed, but simply advocate for being mindful of how this can work to your advantage, yet that if you are not being productive while at work (noisy office, awful lighting, etc.), then it may not help you in the long-term.
I try to practice what I preach on this one too. I try to be present at the office during normal work hours and, when necessary, seek refuge at a coffee shop or at home when I really need uninterrupted focus time (about 2 times per month). Most days per week, I can be found at my office and have an open-door policy.
My struggle is .... so many faculty around me are not present. The staff in our office are here daily, as am I. The students and postdocs are here most days too. This seems like such a lop-sided dynamic. The department head has said hu wishes more faculty were present to keep the department feeling alive, and yet is out of the office 2-3 days per week on average and says, "well, you can always reach me through email".
So -- does face time actually matter in today's digital world? I still think the answer is yes because there are opportunities for interactions and learning from one another that are spontaneous and may not otherwise occur. I do value the productivity I can achieve while working in a secluded location, but I think our academic environment is suffering from this.
What do you think? Does face time still matter in today's digital world? I'd like to hear what you think.
I explicitly tell my grad students I don't care where they work so long as they are productive. We have weekly lab hours where everyone is there and we meet in various combinations, and weekly lab meetings, and they often need to be in the lab collecting data, but if they are analyzing or writing they can do that anywhere. That said, I've been pleased that they seem to like to hang out in the lab or their shared office a lot together, which is good for bouncing ideas around.
I work from home and cafes a lot in the summer, and one or two days a week during the semester when I can swing it, though I often end up not being able to between class and meeting schedules.
What field are you in, OP? I am in the humanities, and even when I was a grad student, back in the Dark Ages before digital pretty much anything, we had no thought of face time being necessary. The point was to work hard and do good research, not to perform presence. I think if someone had showed up in some public venue too often, people might even have said, "Doesn't that student have some real work to do?"
In my view, the proof is in the pudding. Hanging out with other students, and to some extent faculty, is good for morale and not feeling isolated — but that should be outside of work hours, not overlapping with them.
I think it matters quite a bit if you are in a department that values undergraduate education in particular. The more casual interactions with undergrads in your department that happen when you are on campus and seen are important to developing relationships so that students are comfortable asking for help with work, etc. In my experience, when you neglect this, students lean on people who are in their offices, creating more work for your colleagues. If you (or your department) don't really give a shit about your undergrads, then you can get away with a lot less face time (although I would argue that my grad students wandered a little less aimlessly than those of my colleagues who were often not around).
Quote from: Hegemony on July 24, 2019, 11:19:55 AM
What field are you in, OP? I am in the humanities, and even when I was a grad student, back in the Dark Ages before digital pretty much anything, we had no thought of face time being necessary. The point was to work hard and do good research, not to perform presence. I think if someone had showed up in some public venue too often, people might even have said, "Doesn't that student have some real work to do?"
In my view, the proof is in the pudding. Hanging out with other students, and to some extent faculty, is good for morale and not feeling isolated — but that should be outside of work hours, not overlapping with them.
I'm in the STEM sciences and run an active research lab. We have undergraduate workers in the department, but no undergrad program. Your view on this is interesting, especially saying things like "perform presence" and "hanging out". It makes me think that in your field that people do not need to learn anything from the people who they work with and it's all solo work to be done. In my field, although students have their own projects to manage, they frequently need to learn new lab or data analysis techniques from each other. I'm not talking about social hours here.
The differences that seem to be surfacing may be tied to other expectations often under discussion on the fora.
Humanities scholars are more often (but not always, and maybe less so, recently) perceived as solo producers of credible work: some collaboration happens, and it may be increasing, but by and large there's only one name on the article, monograph, or larger books produced.
The threads with questions about authorial order, for example, nearly always have a more recent arrival saying, "What? You publish in groups in the sciences? We would never do that in this or that humanities field!"
So the need for more direct social/interactive work contact makes sense as a corollary, perhaps.
It's also a bit ironic given the still-persistent imagery/stereotyping of scientists as lone nerds with few interactive skills.
Yet another inaccurate perception to be exploded, perhaps...
M.
Quote from: scamp on July 24, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
I think it matters quite a bit if you are in a department that values undergraduate education in particular. The more casual interactions with undergrads in your department that happen when you are on campus and seen are important to developing relationships so that students are comfortable asking for help with work, etc. In my experience, when you neglect this, students lean on people who are in their offices, creating more work for your colleagues. If you (or your department) don't really give a shit about your undergrads, then you can get away with a lot less face time (although I would argue that my grad students wandered a little less aimlessly than those of my colleagues who were often not around).
Huh, we must have very different undergrads-- we have a hard enough time getting them to come see us during office hours, let alone wandering in at other random times.
Quote from: Puget on July 24, 2019, 12:17:15 PM
Quote from: scamp on July 24, 2019, 11:24:20 AM
I think it matters quite a bit if you are in a department that values undergraduate education in particular. The more casual interactions with undergrads in your department that happen when you are on campus and seen are important to developing relationships so that students are comfortable asking for help with work, etc. In my experience, when you neglect this, students lean on people who are in their offices, creating more work for your colleagues. If you (or your department) don't really give a shit about your undergrads, then you can get away with a lot less face time (although I would argue that my grad students wandered a little less aimlessly than those of my colleagues who were often not around).
Huh, we must have very different undergrads-- we have a hard enough time getting them to come see us during office hours, let alone wandering in at other random times.
Weirdly, I could never get them to come see me at office hours! Our program also had a lot of group work (due to the nature of the program) so they were often working on campus.
This is just as much of a problem for undergrads as it is for faculty. When I was in college, the basic rule of life was that there were three different time sucks -- academics, part-time employment, and a romantic relationship -- but you could have only two of the three at once, and academics was always one of the two.
Today academics are just one of any number of co-equal priorities for many students, and as a result many campuses turn into deserted wastelands after 3:00 pm Monday-Thursday and from noon on Friday until 8:00 am on Monday. And while I am quite happy to schedule face-to-face meetings with students outside of my posted office hours for significant matters, I am not going to make a two-hour round trip to campus just to write my signature on a form -- especially since there is a 50 percent probability the student won't show.
I'll note that I don't run a lab and have no post-docs or graduate students.
Face time matters to me and many of my coworkers. We're annoyed with those who mostly don't come to campus. They get out of a lot of service. Whenever something comes up that needs to be dealt with, it's easier for those of us who are here to take care of it than to contact our absent colleagues for them to do it. However, we then resent those colleagues for not pulling their weight. It doesn't help that the same people who don't put in face time are the people who volunteer for as little committee service as possible.
As for research students, I don't make them sit in the lab all day, but I expect them to have a general sense of what everyone is working on and to be able to interact with each other productively. If I tell A to learn a technique from B, it's on them to schedule when/where they'll discuss it. I also sometimes need them to be available for meetings with about a day's advance notice, so they shouldn't leave town without telling me.
As with most things, the importance here seems to vary by field, type of school, etc.
In my lab based STEM field I find face time is one of the most important factors for student success. Lab work simply does not get done through email or Skype...
When I was a student, I aimed to be there before my advisor and leave after them, so it would seem I was just always there. This was pretty easy as my advisor arrived late and left early (but worked a lot in the evening, often returning e-mails at all hours).
I don't enforce defined work hours, but definitely encourage my students to treat it like a job and be there during work hours. This changes once their lab work is complete and they are mostly writing, where I understand that some people work better from home or another location.
On the flip side, I also put in a lot of face time now as my students need regular guidance and support. Some faculty delegate this to technicians and postdocs, but for now I am heavy on students, light on staff, so it falls on me. That being said, I think I will remain pretty involved as I have seen delegating too much have bad results and it is my job.
Yes, "type of school" and so on. As my info might imply I'm "retired" for about five years (STEM/CC) now, but continue to adjunct one course. Through a concatenation of circumstances I have retained an office (rare privilege!), and while adjuncts have no requirement for office hours, I do hold them (not the exhaustive number that FT have). I felt/feel that if offices are dark and the halls rarely trodden by faculty, it makes the building seem somehow lacking a certain academic--well, I hesitate to use the word "ambience," but nothing else comes to mind.
I will also say that students rarely come to my office hours, but I merely set up the buffet. If partaken of, that's another matter. Most students who darken the door are looking for a) paper for the printer in the study center or b) a staple for a report. It's hard to provide a staple with only a digital presence.
Quote from: Hegemony on July 24, 2019, 11:19:55 AM
What field are you in, OP? I am in the humanities, and even when I was a grad student, back in the Dark Ages before digital pretty much anything, we had no thought of face time being necessary. The point was to work hard and do good research, not to perform presence. I think if someone had showed up in some public venue too often, people might even have said, "Doesn't that student have some real work to do?"
In my view, the proof is in the pudding. Hanging out with other students, and to some extent faculty, is good for morale and not feeling isolated — but that should be outside of work hours, not overlapping with them.
This mindset is one way that people get trapped into just the One True Path for academia instead of having many wonderful options as other people transition to jobs where they can help get other bright, educated people hired. The value of having many loose ties (https://www.businessinsider.com/career-value-of-weak-ties-2014-12) in the network is often that other people think fondly enough of you, but have different experiences and thus can help with new options that won't ever be advertised. The three people working exactly in your area are probably less useful for that broad job search than the people one regularly chats with over the photocopier or waiting for the microwave in the break room.
This mindset also contributes to the problem of how to raise the perceived value of one's work because few people know what one has done. This has become a huge problem in my fields where people have given up on keeping up with the field by browsing the table of contents for a handful of journals, but instead have students use a search engine to do a literature review. No one will invite you to help organize the cool panel if they don't know you exist. However, as one makes the rounds at various institutions at various career stages, one can build a great network by being pleasantly present wherever one is. As one's network makes slightly different rounds, when the topic of one's research is mentioned, then others can make the suggestion to contact one. Even when I was at Super Dinky College, I received some great invitations because my work was mentioned during a discussion at some place far removed.
Being the best networker won't save someone who is completely unproductive and unqualified, but many jobs that aren't TT professor are filled by someone's acquaintance who will be good enough and thus the very-flexible-on-qualifications job is never advertised because we can fill it another way.
Even getting a TT job might be easier if one has enough bouncing around of ideas to move forward in publishing as well as the solid support through example of continuous writing/publishing. Having many people who can write fabulous letters of recommendation as well as forwarding notices of TT job openings before they are advertised in all the venues is also very helpful.
Quote from: Kron3007 on July 24, 2019, 05:49:19 PM
On the flip side, I also put in a lot of face time now as my students need regular guidance and support. Some faculty delegate this to technicians and postdocs, but for now I am heavy on students, light on staff, so it falls on me. That being said, I think I will remain pretty involved as I have seen delegating too much have bad results and it is my job.
Quote from: polly_mer on July 25, 2019, 05:52:51 AM
The three people working exactly in your area are probably less useful for that broad job search than the people one regularly chats with over the photocopier or waiting for the microwave in the break room.
Both of these illustrate the point that it's the
informal nature of face-to-face meetings that doesn't really work electronically. Teaching in a lab, I notice (and point out to TAs) that if you
walk around, students will ask questions that they wouldn't even if you were standing at the side of the room and not busy.
When I was a grad student, my supervisor was a Dean, but still tried to have lunch with the research group frequently. That was good, but one of my recommendations for potential grad students would be to find a supervisor who spends
significant time
in the lab. The kind of "Oh, by the way...." conversations you'll have in person are not going to happen (or not nearly as much) electronically.
Cueing up "You Gotta Have Friends"
You should have a work buddy in every building/major office on campus. These persons needn't be your best friends or even a people you'd necessarily socialize with off campus. These are the go to connections who keep you in the know and put in a discrete word at the right time. They also help build the institutional memory and/or shortcuts allowing us to avoid unnecessary blocks at exactly the wrong time. For instance, you may have flaked on an important deadline. Your friend in that office can expedite a solution thus avoiding a delay or work stoppage. Please remember, though, these relationships are reciprocal. Your will be called on to return the favor. Do it. And smile. Your turn will come if you patiently cultivate those relationships.
Quote from: marshwiggle on July 25, 2019, 06:31:43 AM
Quote from: Kron3007 on July 24, 2019, 05:49:19 PM
On the flip side, I also put in a lot of face time now as my students need regular guidance and support. Some faculty delegate this to technicians and postdocs, but for now I am heavy on students, light on staff, so it falls on me. That being said, I think I will remain pretty involved as I have seen delegating too much have bad results and it is my job.
Quote from: polly_mer on July 25, 2019, 05:52:51 AM
The three people working exactly in your area are probably less useful for that broad job search than the people one regularly chats with over the photocopier or waiting for the microwave in the break room.
Both of these illustrate the point that it's the informal nature of face-to-face meetings that doesn't really work electronically. Teaching in a lab, I notice (and point out to TAs) that if you walk around, students will ask questions that they wouldn't even if you were standing at the side of the room and not busy.
When I was a grad student, my supervisor was a Dean, but still tried to have lunch with the research group frequently. That was good, but one of my recommendations for potential grad students would be to find a supervisor who spends significant time in the lab. The kind of "Oh, by the way...." conversations you'll have in person are not going to happen (or not nearly as much) electronically.
Yes, I walk through the lab at least daily, often more,and most of my student meetings are informal spur of the moment chats. I really need to see what they are doing and look at heir samples to give the best advice and I also need to take breaks from my computer screen so it seems like a good practice. In my field, visual observation is important, so it is important to have an experiences eye on the ground.
This also gives me a pretty good idea of which students are putting in time and which ones are not. I can tell you, that this has a pretty strong relationship with productivity.
I'm in the humanities (history), but I am convinced that as a grad student I was remembered for internal funding, posh work assignments, and other opportunities because I was at the office almost daily. I now encourage my grad students to put in face time similarly; there is no need for a 9-5 work schedule, but popping in for 1-2 hours 4 to 5 times a week keeps you from falling off the department's radar. Obviously, there are external constraints for some students (job or family-related), but there are ways to establish a presence without being in all the time.
I'm an AP now and try to stick to a 4 day work week, with one half-day in there. My dept colleagues seem to come in considerably less frequently, depending on rank, but I still find that the untenured scholars who aren't observably present draw comment (fair or unfair).
Back to the OP, I actually think you could make the argument that face time, or at least the need to deliberately make the effort for it, is even more important in the digital era where it is so easy to avoid real interaction.
For example, I used to question the value of conferences given that technology could allow online meetings and deliver the information just as well as live presentations at a fraction of the cost/energy/etc. While I think that is true, with experience I have realized that the information and presentations at conferences is somewhat secondary and their real value is networking/face time. When I applied for tenure, it was people that I had met at conferences or other in person events that were used. Every time I submit a grant application or paper I am asked to suggest reviewers. Without a doubt, it is best to use reviewers that you have met in person and can put a face to the name (unless you are that abbrasive...).
It's kind of like all the studies that even with social media and our ability to communicate, youth generally feel more isolated these days.
Quote from: Kron3007 on July 26, 2019, 09:52:31 AM
Back to the OP, I actually think you could make the argument that face time, or at least the need to deliberately make the effort for it, is even more important in the digital era where it is so easy to avoid real interaction.
For example, I used to question the value of conferences given that technology could allow online meetings and deliver the information just as well as live presentations at a fraction of the cost/energy/etc. While I think that is true, with experience I have realized that the information and presentations at conferences is somewhat secondary and their real value is networking/face time. When I applied for tenure, it was people that I had met at conferences or other in person events that were used. Every time I submit a grant application or paper I am asked to suggest reviewers. Without a doubt, it is best to use reviewers that you have met in person and can put a face to the name (unless you are that abbrasive...).
It's kind of like all the studies that even with social media and our ability to communicate, youth generally feel more isolated these days.
Right... except the fact that most of our faculty and even the department head are not around really contradicts that message, which is where I face this internal conflict.
Quote from: AJ_Katz on July 26, 2019, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: Kron3007 on July 26, 2019, 09:52:31 AM
Back to the OP, I actually think you could make the argument that face time, or at least the need to deliberately make the effort for it, is even more important in the digital era where it is so easy to avoid real interaction.
For example, I used to question the value of conferences given that technology could allow online meetings and deliver the information just as well as live presentations at a fraction of the cost/energy/etc. While I think that is true, with experience I have realized that the information and presentations at conferences is somewhat secondary and their real value is networking/face time. When I applied for tenure, it was people that I had met at conferences or other in person events that were used. Every time I submit a grant application or paper I am asked to suggest reviewers. Without a doubt, it is best to use reviewers that you have met in person and can put a face to the name (unless you are that abbrasive...).
It's kind of like all the studies that even with social media and our ability to communicate, youth generally feel more isolated these days.
Right... except the fact that most of our faculty and even the department head are not around really contradicts that message, which is where I face this internal conflict.
That does make it harder, I suppose my department is a little different as many people are present (not all). However, I dont think this means it is less important, just that you have to work harder to make it happen. For example, you could be strategic about which committee work you do to get face time with people who approve T&P decisions, decide which departmental grants move forward, who is nominated for awards, etc.
Quote from: Antiphon1 on July 25, 2019, 08:58:26 AM
Cueing up "You Gotta Have Friends"
You should have a work buddy in every building/major office on campus. These persons needn't be your best friends or even a people you'd necessarily socialize with off campus. These are the go to connections who keep you in the know and put in a discrete word at the right time. They also help build the institutional memory and/or shortcuts allowing us to avoid unnecessary blocks at exactly the wrong time. For instance, you may have flaked on an important deadline. Your friend in that office can expedite a solution thus avoiding a delay or work stoppage. Please remember, though, these relationships are reciprocal. Your will be called on to return the favor. Do it. And smile. Your turn will come if you patiently cultivate those relationships.
At my campus, this is one big reason why face time matters.
Come review time, if you're never on campus and you're not incredibly productive in research, then it can become a problem. You're perceived as not contributing and, honestly, it is really hard to make an argument for a borderline tenure case when no one knows you. I've seen this happen — when the Provost grabs me after a meeting and asks what I think & if there's a way to frame the case, it's not good if my answer is "I just don't know" because I've had maybe three banal chats with you in seven years.
And, our admin is increasingly angry about people who aren't on campus because they are perceived (and in some cases, actually) not pulling their weight. In these days when we're all afraid of making the classes and retaining those students, FaceTime that leads to informal & formal mentoring is seen as vitally important.
On the other hand, you have to protect your time. It's a balance of being there to build relationships that you will need and getting your work done. Connect, protect, and be mindful of appearances. Be at the main events, shake the right hands, pop in during the summer once a week, empty your blasted mailbox during the semester, talk to people, don't skip office hours, etc.
Quote from: nescafe on July 26, 2019, 02:03:25 AM
I'm in the humanities (history), but I am convinced that as a grad student I was remembered for internal funding, posh work assignments, and other opportunities because I was at the office almost daily. I now encourage my grad students to put in face time similarly; there is no need for a 9-5 work schedule, but popping in for 1-2 hours 4 to 5 times a week keeps you from falling off the department's radar. Obviously, there are external constraints for some students (job or family-related), but there are ways to establish a presence without being in all the time.
I generally agree. Being around in a vague sense keeps you connected in a bunch of helpful ways. As a grad student, I formed a lot of relationships with other students just because we all worked in the same places. Some of these people became good friends, but just being on comfortable, friendly terms with people gave me lots of institutional and professional knowledge.
Ditto for work relationships. As I mentioned somewhere else, just having an office as an adjunct has mattered a great deal because I get to know people and in the process of chit chat and grumbling about students I've learned some useful things about University and department culture.
A lot.
Because nothing is funnier than all the conferences all about the Digital World where everyone gets together and schmoozes about the end of Traditional Education and the Rise of Online Learning and the Death of the Sophocles-Style Classroom.
Over coffee, donuts and cocktails.
In big hotels, with nametags, passing business cards around.
Quote from: ciao_yall on July 27, 2019, 08:14:08 AM
A lot.
Because nothing is funnier than all the conferences all about the Digital World where everyone gets together and schmoozes about the end of Traditional Education and the Rise of Online Learning and the Death of the Sophocles-Style Classroom.
Over coffee, donuts and cocktails.
In big hotels, with nametags, passing business cards around.
HOF!
I think that facetime can be an incredibly great thing in education, but being an online education student, I believe it can be seen in different ways. In my time in school, I was able to skype, conference in, and screencast, which has helped in the overall learning process. I have also utilized many different kinds of apps, which has helped me connect with my classmates and have built many connections. I wonder if anyone has had a different experience and thoughts on this topic.
I team fully online, and go in for department meetings and my university committee meetings, but otherwise don't go in. I do take on high-profile assignments for my department, which I think helps, and I work hard to establish a collegial presence. I do a LOT of conferencing with my students (I use zoom currently as well as the course conferencing software), and I think that helps establish my presence in my online classes. At least my students say that :D. I'm actually teaching students who will be working a lot in this type of environment, so it does fit well for me.
If work can be done from home and you are still productive, there is no need to spend 40-80 hours in an office. However, there is some need to be in the office like for meetings, classes, committee work, campus events, etc.
My husband is super productive and he works from home about 2-3 days. Also, working from home means that you might do your best work at 5am or midnight or on the weekends. You don't get this flexibility when you are forced to work the traditional 8-5 pm schedule.
Face time should be reserved for complex and emergency situations.
I have a traditional staff job on campus. Most of my work with staff is done via email. Technically, I could work from home since I rarely talk even on the phone. I've been here for years and some of my best work is done with staff that I collaborate with via online.
There are aspects of my job that must be done in person like student meetings. However, there are long stretches when students are not on campus.
We are moving more in the direction of remote/online work. Students also love interacting this way.
I can't wait to see if 5-15 years from now, most of my work can be done from home or remotely. There are days when I don't even talk to my co-workers in person. We just email so I don't see the point of continuing to work in the office if we are not even interacting face to face and we have all this technology.
Reviving for context.
Nine months ago, this was an active, albeit non-emergent concern.
Now...
M.
I have more scheduled meetings with some people because we'll never catch up in the halls.
Our university is now closed, except for essential personnel. Nearly all work is now remote. I continue to have 1-hr weekly meeting with all of my graduate students, now via Zoom, and fear that many will not make as much progress. I have also had a difficult time transitioning to online-only work. Spending 15 hrs week in Zoom meetings is taking a toll on my ability to sit at the computer to get emails sent and writing done. I also miss getting the chance to interact with people during periods of time when I need to take screen breaks. Walking around my backyard is far less productive use of my screen breaks compared to just stopping by people's offices and the lab to see how their work is doing.
Most of the operational faculty service work at Big Urban College's is either paralyzed or dead.
Most of the administrative work requiring collaboration with other administrators is also mostly paralyzed or dead. The most critical work is being performed, but extremely slowly and inefficiently.
Communication within the college is very low and very unreliable.
Hovering around my computer all day, every day (including weekends) waiting for random email responses from random students, professors, administrators, techs, vendors, insert anyone here is becoming an enormous waste of time and energy. Over half of the time I get no responses back. This creates unnecessary delays getting things done.
With zero face time for the last month, I have to say that I feel entirely alienated from the products of my labour. And that translates into unwarranted irritation with my students.
Yeah, I think that everyone is going stir crazy. Even the forums here are starting to show several "cranky" sounding posts. I'm a bit concerned that I will be next.
Quote from: AJ_Katz on April 08, 2020, 08:55:17 AM
I also miss getting the chance to interact with people during periods of time when I need to take screen breaks. Walking around my backyard is far less productive use of my screen breaks compared to just stopping by people's offices and the lab to see how their work is doing.
Agreed. Setting up phone appointments is not the same as just dropping in.