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Academic Discussions => General Academic Discussion => Topic started by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 03:55:24 AM

Title: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 03:55:24 AM
Hi!  I am about to attend a conference; I haven't been to one before.  I am upset by the cost, which has to come out of my departmental budget.  The conference is $300, the hotel (for 4 nights--since the session I most want to attend because it's really relevant to my job is "pre-conference" the day before) is $700, the transportation I haven't assessed yet but it's 4 hrs away by car in a "can't get there from here" type of location.

omg this is terrible!  My departmental budget isn't big--hard not to feel guilty.  But I have been majorly encouraged to attend this conference, and I did already register.  It's a regional conference--the (Region)(Field) Association Annual Conference.  But on the other hand it seems so wonderful and I feel like I will learn 100% more about my field than I currently know

???????
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: lightning on October 10, 2019, 04:22:33 AM
Huh? Why are you feeling guilty. Don't feel guilty. The conference will cost your department $1,000 + estimated mileage costs of $240. $1,240 is perfectly normal. And it sounds like you are covering your own meals/entertainment/incidentals out of your own pocket, so Sheeesh, cut it out already. Go enjoy it, learn lots, make your uni look good, and network, and don't feel guilty in the least bit. 
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: downer on October 10, 2019, 04:29:34 AM
It seems a bit unusual that you never went to a conference as a grad student. Or apparently that you are not used to hotel charges. Your optimism about the conference is bizarre. If you have been keeping up with journal articles in your area, you will find more of the same.

So what's up? Why is all so new to you?
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Hibush on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 AM
Regional and national conferences are a common part of my grant-proposal budgets. I am currently budgeting $2000 per conference. That number seems to be normal. At least, nobody has ever questioned it and there are plenty of people in a position to do that.

You will have to determine which conferences are worth that much of the department budget. That is a separate and important consideration.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: polly_mer on October 10, 2019, 05:10:07 AM
Quote from: Hibush on October 10, 2019, 04:41:55 AM
Regional and national conferences are a common part of my grant-proposal budgets. I am currently budgeting $2000 per conference.

Yes, $2000/conference is a reasonable estimate for something that isn't in a hugely expensive city with an expected set of attendees from around the world.

A $300 conference fee is entirely reasonable for a conference where one expects to learn much through a combination of sessions and networking.

revert79, sometimes, it's possible to get a slightly cheaper hotel by shopping around instead of using the conference-recommended hotel.  It's also possible to be strategic about how many days to go and not stay the entire time.

Big picture: it's usually worthwhile to go to at least one regional conference per year for the networking opportunities and it seems like that's supported by your institution.  Revisit your budget for this year to afford this conference and then build conference/workshop attendance into next year's budget.  If your departmental budget is too small to get the job done, then that's a conversation to start now with relevant people at your institution so you're not in this same situation next year.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Kron3007 on October 10, 2019, 05:25:13 AM
Yes, these costs are all typical, perhaps even on the lower end.  Budgeting about $2000/conference sounds about right to me as well, depending on location etc.

If this is more than you can/want to spend, definitely shop around for cheaper hotels, air bnb, etc.  The conference hotel is very convenient, but usually not the cheapest option.

Just second Downer, it seems odd that this is so unknown at your stage.  If you did not have this opportunity as a grad student, you should really plan to support your students, and realize this cost is pretty typical.  I make sure to send each student to at least one conference, usually more.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:30:04 AM
Okay...thanks.  I feel better now.  The thought of using up $1000 my department's money is freaking me out, but in this case it really will be put to good use.  And yeah I shopped around and got the cheapest hotel I could find that wasn't too far away.

Quote from: downer on October 10, 2019, 04:29:34 AM
It seems a bit unusual that you never went to a conference as a grad student. Or apparently that you are not used to hotel charges. Your optimism about the conference is bizarre. If you have been keeping up with journal articles in your area, you will find more of the same.

So what's up? Why is all so new to you?

This person makes a few interesting points.  It gets a little personal (instead of "conferences are usually that much money" or "you're getting hosed" etc), but I will answer as best I am able.

Never attended conference as a grad student, because in my field the terminal degree is the 2-year MFA, and I went to a freewheeling ivy league program that was blind to things like conferences and eventual academic careers (or careers of any kind).  Nobody went to our academic conference--believe me, we didn't even know what it was.

Not used to hotel charges--this is true; I am and always have been a member of the lower classes, and have never booked a hotel for myself or my family.  If we want to go somewhere interesting, we go camping (I recommend the State Parks system for this--cheapest and best!).  As a kid, hotels were not really part of my experience of life. 

Weirdly optimistic about the conference: this is true, I am optimistic.  Transparency: I'm not a professor, I'm the director of university galleries and exhibitions.  My degree is in the above-mentioned arts field (as in the production of artwork, rather than arts administration), so this conference will represent the most professional exposure I have had in the area in which I actually work.  It will kind of be like an education in 4 days...which does make the 1 grand start to seem like a bargain.  Anyway on paper the conference seems very fun and exciting with all of the workshops and talks and offsite trips to picturesque colleges!!  What's the problem, are conferences usually awful or something? 

Journal articles--good call--will look into it.  Hopefully this clears up the mystery of why I'm so behind the times.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: polly_mer on October 10, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
Quote from: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:30:04 AM
Anyway on paper the conference seems very fun and exciting with all of the workshops and talks and offsite trips to picturesque colleges!!  What's the problem, are conferences usually awful or something? 

Some conferences are more about putting a line on each speaker's CV for having delivered a talk.  In some fields, the common practice is to literally read a paper to the audience of a handful of people.

When I was a grad student, I prepared a big list of talks I wanted to see and moved room to room to see the newest results.  That was a useful overview in areas where dozens of groups are working and a way to assess the handful of most burning questions.  Reading articles was necessary to get all the details in certain areas, but the talks were good advertisements for how to prioritize my literature review so I could do my scientific research.

However, I've always gotten more useful education from a targeted workshop.   That remained true when I changed from doing scientific research to doing administrative work.

The networking at relevant regional conferences was invaluable as I moved from doing research to teaching and then to administration.  The talks at those conferences were OK (again, more of figuring out what the problems in the field are), but the very useful part was talking in small groups with people doing the same work I was and acquiring mentors when I was alone at the institution trying to do the given job.  Reading articles was not nearly as useful as that extended lunch with people in the same boat with real experiences and advice outside the textbook examples.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: AvidReader on October 10, 2019, 06:38:57 AM
My humanities conference costs can range from $300 (small, regional) to $1500 (large, national/international) if I watch my pennies very closely. I have had conference funding only once in my life, so have cut corners in many interesting ways. Some of my conferences pro-rate their fees by income (thank you!!!), which is a real gift. The conference hotel is often my biggest expense, but I understand that some of the conference costs are mitigated by the hotel's income from these rooms.

Some ways I have cut corners:

--stayed in other hotels. Walking distance is best. I once stayed ~30 miles out of a city centre and missed out on some of the conference networking.

--shared a room (better if you can meet your roommate beforehand; even better if it's someone you know already. Some conferences run lists of people seeking roommates)

--flown red-eye, or driven crazy distances. Next week I am driving to a conference ~6 hours away, but I'll stop ~2 hours away so I can sleep in a less expensive hotel (and not pay parking fees).

--brought small snacks or even a nonperishable sandwich so that I can eat small meals alone and only buy out if dining with colleagues.

Other things you might consider if it is your first conference:

--For me, networking is the most essential part of a conference. Get out and mingle at coffee hours. Loiter at the bar at the end of the day (the drinks will be $20, but you can nurse one all night) and introduce yourself to people you've seen attending some of the same panels that interested you. Stay after panels and talk to people whose interests align with yours--not just the presenters, who are usually swamped, but also the other people in the room (bonus points if they are also sitting alone and look new). If there is a cash bar or reception, go to it, and look for other people who look as if they don't know many attendees. If someone you really admire will be attending, email to ask if you can chat over coffee. If you are shy (like me!) the book room can also be a great place to meet people informally--and at some conferences (field- and even conference-specific), you can even chat to editors about your upcoming book projects.

--If you have business cards, take them! If you are given business cards, I like to jot down a few details about the person you met (e.g. "editing a collection on X") on the back so I won't get confused after the conference.

Quote from: polly_mer on October 10, 2019, 05:43:09 AM
The networking at relevant regional conferences was invaluable as I moved from doing research to teaching and then to administration.  The talks at those conferences were OK (again, more of figuring out what the problems in the field are), but the very useful part was talking in small groups with people doing the same work I was and acquiring mentors when I was alone at the institution trying to do the given job.  Reading articles was not nearly as useful as that extended lunch with people in the same boat with real experiences and advice outside the textbook examples.

Yes, this! If you are invited to join a group for a meal or drinks, do so if at all possible (prioritize your energy, of course). Especially since this is a regional conference, the people in attendance will be not only in your field but close enough for talks, other small conferences, and mentoring opportunities. It will likely also be stupidly expensive (costly hotels=costly restaurants), but in the long term it will be worthwhile. (Also, if you have a chance to ask for separate receipts at a meal out, do so).

AR.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: ciao_yall on October 10, 2019, 06:45:51 AM
And, think about the value you will be bringing back to your institution. In your role, you probably need to be thinking about the latest trends in the art world, the big names, the rising names, and so forth.

You will return with a lot of fresh ideas to rebuild your galleries and exhibitions, as well as new resources.

That will make the conference pay for itself in the long run.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Ruralguy on October 10, 2019, 07:00:13 AM
The expenses you mention are both typical and reasonable. I suggest you cut corners in the ways suggested if you can't get that kind of money reimbursed.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: mamselle on October 10, 2019, 07:45:01 AM
Some large conferences have grad and early-scholar grants, or will waive registration fees for a few folks per year.

Not sure where you fall in the latter category, they usually say "less than/equal to 3 yrssince degree award date" or something like that.

A couple times, I've stayed with colleagues who were also long-standing friends, but that doesn't usually work, location-wise.

M.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Parasaurolophus on October 10, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
FWIW, you're not obliged to stay in the conference hotel (I never do unless it's being paid for by someone else). That can cut costs substantially. Also taking the train where and when you can, rather than flying.

But if you have conference funding, you should absolutely use it all up. The only question is whether to blow it all on one, or to spread it around a few.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: ciao_yall on October 10, 2019, 08:47:23 AM
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on October 10, 2019, 08:12:02 AM
FWIW, you're not obliged to stay in the conference hotel (I never do unless it's being paid for by someone else). That can cut costs substantially. Also taking the train where and when you can, rather than flying.

But if you have conference funding, you should absolutely use it all up. The only question is whether to blow it all on one, or to spread it around a few.

There is a lot to be said for staying in the conference hotel. Everything really happens at breakfast, on the elevator or in the bar after hours. Staying even a few blocks away cuts down on that a lot.

Ask me about the time a company thought it would be a great idea to send me to a conference but not pay for it and just hang out in the lobby all day.

Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: downer on October 10, 2019, 10:15:29 AM
OP I wonder what you aim to get out of the conference. If it is just information, you can get just about all the info from other sources, such as journals and blog posts.

Conferences are places to make connections, and to get yourself noticed by interacting with others. They are good for advancing your career. They can also be excuses for a mini-vacation.

Whether you take naturally to conferences tends to depend on how much of an extrovert you are, and how good you are at taking initiative.

Personally I hate most hotels and especially big conference hotels, and avoid them as much as I can. I stay at an Airbnb and commute to the conference. That is generally a lot cheaper too. Some people stay in youth hostels. Much of the interacting goes on outside of the hotel, during meals and going for drinks.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Kron3007 on October 10, 2019, 12:18:07 PM
Quote from: downer on October 10, 2019, 10:15:29 AM
OP I wonder what you aim to get out of the conference. If it is just information, you can get just about all the info from other sources, such as journals and blog posts.

Conferences are places to make connections, and to get yourself noticed by interacting with others. They are good for advancing your career. They can also be excuses for a mini-vacation.

Whether you take naturally to conferences tends to depend on how much of an extrovert you are, and how good you are at taking initiative.

Personally I hate most hotels and especially big conference hotels, and avoid them as much as I can. I stay at an Airbnb and commute to the conference. That is generally a lot cheaper too. Some people stay in youth hostels. Much of the interacting goes on outside of the hotel, during meals and going for drinks.

I dont know that you can get all the info from journals etc., but I guess this depends on the field.  Typically in mine, people present work that has not been published so you really cant get it from journals etc. until it is through the review/publication process (many months or so later).  So, if you want to know what work is coming out before it is published, conferences are quite important.

That being said, I agree that the main function of conferences is networking and such.  This is where I met several people who ended up being external reviewers for my tenure application, grants, etc.  As a grad student I didn't quite understand the importance of networking beyond potential jobs or collaborations, but now see the constant need for a good pool of potential reviewers etc.   
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: downer on October 10, 2019, 01:11:49 PM
Given the OP's apparent unfamiliarity with the journals in their field, I don't think they are going to be too concerned about the latest unpublished articles. And very often people put their draft work up on their own home pages anyway -- so you just need to look at the conference program and google the presenters, and you will find their papers. A surprising number of talks also end up on YouTube.

One of the main pleasures of going to a conference these days is meeting up with old friends. Early career people need to make friends in the first place.

There is also the thrill of seeing the "famous names" in the field (which gets old quick) and the drama of seeing them revered or reviled by up-n-comers. It can be interesting seeing people thinking on their feet.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Kron3007 on October 10, 2019, 02:19:21 PM
Yes, I dont think the art world would be  similar to my field where technology and such move quite quickly and journal articles are in some respects old news.  I find it interesting that people are putting draft work on their webpage and you see conference talks on youtube; neither of these things are common in my field or at least not as far as I know.  I know some fields also pre-publish in various places, but again I have not seen this in my field. 

Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: fast_and_bulbous on October 10, 2019, 03:50:50 PM
I will chime in to add to the folks saying that networking is probably the most valuable part of conferences. It's the face to face stuff that I always take with me the most from conferences. Some of the conversations I've had ended up turning into productive collaborations (I am a 100% soft funded researcher so collaborations are absolutely critical).

I am also a big fan of NOT traveling to conferences, at least for some where just the talks are of interest (and the talks are streamed remotely). I would like to see a push for more virtualization and less traveling for conferences. But at the same time I can't get over how critical the face to face interactions are, and that can't currently be replicated "remotely".
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: fleabite on October 10, 2019, 04:36:36 PM
I think I'm familiar with the type of conference you mean, and it's quite different from the presenting-research type to which some of those in the sciences have referred. I'm assuming you're going to get nuts and bolts information on things like fundraising, arranging traveling exhibitions, promoting your gallery, and the like. There will probably be some people who have gone to a lot of conferences and will spend much of their time enjoying the area rather than attending workshops. But others, like you, will be there to work. If you're lucky, you'll be able to take home some actionable information, and you'll see some great galleries/colleges as a bonus.

I also understand your concern about costs: in the humanities and arts, $1000 is a vastly bigger part of a departmental budget than in many other fields. But since you are a practitioner rather than administrator by background, you probably need to come up to speed quickly on a lot of the matters that you will learn about at the conference. The fact that you were strongly encouraged to attend indicates that your colleagues recognize that and want you to succeed.

Hope you have a great time.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:23:10 PM
Quote from: fleabite on October 10, 2019, 04:36:36 PM
I think I'm familiar with the type of conference you mean, and it's quite different from the presenting-research type to which some of those in the sciences have referred. I'm assuming you're going to get nuts and bolts information on things like fundraising, arranging traveling exhibitions, promoting your gallery, and the like. There will probably be some people who have gone to a lot of conferences and will spend much of their time enjoying the area rather than attending workshops. But others, like you, will be there to work. If you're lucky, you'll be able to take home some actionable information, and you'll see some great galleries/colleges as a bonus.

I also understand your concern about costs: in the humanities and arts, $1000 is a vastly bigger part of a departmental budget than in many other fields. But since you are a practitioner rather than administrator by background, you probably need to come up to speed quickly on a lot of the matters that you will learn about at the conference. The fact that you were strongly encouraged to attend indicates that your colleagues recognize that and want you to succeed.

Hope you have a great time.

Thanks fleabite—this definitely makes sense.  I do need to come up to speed and this seems like part of a good start toward that goal.  Thanks so much for your perceptive comment, it sums up my situation with precision.
Thanks to you other folks too!  I am going to keep up the optimism level and try to get something real out of this.  I am still trembling about the 1000 but so be it.  Maybe I'll gain a novel & effective fundraising perspective so it makes less of a dent if I go again someday
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Vkw10 on October 10, 2019, 05:30:36 PM
Activities without a formal presentation and speaker listed often have opportunities to discuss, which helps network. My professional association meeting includes user groups, interest groups, dine around s, and un-conference spaces, all of which are great for networking.

Food at conference sites is expensive. Take snacks or find nearby store to buy them. Limit eating out to networking opportunities or a single splurge meal. Take a lightweight water bottle.

Attending a professional conference is an investment. Your goal is to come home with a new idea or a new contact that helps to make your program better.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:37:35 PM
Quote from: ciao_yall on October 10, 2019, 06:45:51 AM
And, think about the value you will be bringing back to your institution. In your role, you probably need to be thinking about the latest trends in the art world, the big names, the rising names, and so forth.

You will return with a lot of fresh ideas to rebuild your galleries and exhibitions, as well as new resources.

That will make the conference pay for itself in the long run.

Thanks !!  This is my hope—that it will make itself worthwhile because I bring back some useful concepts. 

As for the networking suggestions—yes I will do my best despite social fears.  I don't drink alcohol though—hope that doesn't sink me for socializing ha ha

One more thing—journals—I'm used to treating commercial art magazines such as Artforum like scholarly journals (normal artist behavior).  I agree that I need to figure this out fast; there is certainly something aimed at academic museums, galleries, and collections—v different than the art world in general.  Will google
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Vkw10 on October 10, 2019, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: revert79 on July 01, 1970, 12:12:22 PM

One more thing—journals—I'm used to treating commercial art magazines such as Artforum like scholarly journals (normal artist behavior).  I agree that I need to figure this out fast; there is certainly something aimed at academic museums, galleries, and collections—v different than the art world in general.  Will google

Don't just google. Ask your librarians for help. They have resources that list journals by discipline and identify the scholarly ones. Our librarians are great about email and online chat questions like this.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Vkw10 on October 10, 2019, 05:30:36 PM
Activities without a formal presentation and speaker listed often have opportunities to discuss, which helps network. My professional association meeting includes user groups, interest groups, dine around s, and un-conference spaces, all of which are great for networking.

Food at conference sites is expensive. Take snacks or find nearby store to buy them. Limit eating out to networking opportunities or a single splurge meal. Take a lightweight water bottle.

Attending a professional conference is an investment. Your goal is to come home with a new idea or a new contact that helps to make your program better.

Yes this is great advice.  Nature Valley Granola Bars ha ha
Journals: okay there are some.  Library time. 
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: kaysixteen on October 10, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
It's probably gonna sound snarky to assert that the reason this cost data may be strange and surprising to this newbie prof is that, as a grad student at many schools, probably it wouldn't have been conceivably doable to afford attending any such conferences, and it goeth without saying it certainly is impossible for almost all adjuncts, irrespective of additional pt retail income, and regardless of the fantastic rich get richer networking opportunities lost thereby.  Ah well.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: downer on October 10, 2019, 06:48:38 PM
Many conferences have lower rates for grad students. Some have lower rates for part time faculty. Often grad students find cheap ways to attend conferences, couch surfing or sharing rooms.

It's been known for some people to go to conferences without paying the registration fee. It's not as if they have a lot of security there. Of course, I couldn't possibly condone such ingenious initiative.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 07:08:10 PM
Quote from: revert79 on October 10, 2019, 05:46:46 PM
Quote from: Vkw10 on October 10, 2019, 05:30:36 PM
Activities without a formal presentation and speaker listed often have opportunities to discuss, which helps network. My professional association meeting includes user groups, interest groups, dine around s, and un-conference spaces, all of which are great for networking.

Food at conference sites is expensive. Take snacks or find nearby store to buy them. Limit eating out to networking opportunities or a single splurge meal. Take a lightweight water bottle.

Attending a professional conference is an investment. Your goal is to come home with a new idea or a new contact that helps to make your program better.

Yes this is great advice.  Nature Valley Granola Bars ha ha
Journals: okay there are some.  Library time.

^^^ that's not supposed to be sarcastic.  Sorry.  Really do have a Nature Valley-based cost-saving plan !!
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: mamselle on October 10, 2019, 10:49:33 PM
I've been impressed with the College Art Ass'n (CAA) which has a "pay per session" fee structure, and several other setups that are easier for light pocketbooks to afford.

I've gone twice on that basis when they're in NYC (they alternate with West Coast and Midwest sites in rota), and have met people from my own home town that I doubt I'd have otherwise met.

I also was encouraged by press reps at two different tables to do book proposals to send them (one's in process now) since my sessions badge allowed visits to the book room as well.

I attend K'zoo (medieval/some Renaissance focus), "Texts and Contexts" (THEOSU), and a couple of regional groups' smaller talk sessions as I can.

I average two a year: this year Ohio medievalists and maybe K'zoo; if not, then Keene, NH; these are all by bus or train for the most part, staying in hostels or with friends, and packing food for the day with budgeted dinners here and there.

I've paid for almost all of them (all but 2) myself.

M.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: larryc on October 10, 2019, 11:26:23 PM
These costs are pretty typical in my field, history. In recent years I've been branching out and have been surprised to discover that conference registration fees in other fields can be much higher. The National Conference on Interpretation was like $800 I think. That is flat out exploitive.

There are ways to chip at the edges of conference costs. Find an off-site hotel or Air BnB. Focus on regional conferences you can drive to. Pack your meals in your suitcase. Hell, back in the day I might have shown up at a conference late on the first day and fished a name tag out of the trash to get into the exhibit hall.

My department works hard to raise and allocate funds for junior faculty and grad students to attend conferences. You have to make your own party sometimes.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: polly_mer on October 11, 2019, 04:37:40 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 10, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
It's probably gonna sound snarky to assert that the reason this cost data may be strange and surprising to this newbie prof is that, as a grad student at many schools, probably it wouldn't have been conceivably doable to afford attending any such conferences, and it goeth without saying it certainly is impossible for almost all adjuncts, irrespective of additional pt retail income, and regardless of the fantastic rich get richer networking opportunities lost thereby.  Ah well.

Yellowtractor's phrase "mentored by wolves" comes to mind.  Ideally, a department would contribute to the professionalization of a grad student by only accepting people who can be fully funded and that includes funding for a relevant professional conference per year.  That was true for all my graduate work, even at the unranked program where I was one of a handful of graduate students.

Mahagonny's assertion that all academics should insist on professional-level compensation including funding for professional development comes to mind.  By accepting positions that don't pay enough to be a true professional including the relevant networking, one has made their own life much harder.  The human world tends to run by personal contacts, no matter how many times we try to set up systems that will sort in some other way.  Failure to accept that reality makes one's life harder than it has to be.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: revert79 on October 11, 2019, 05:20:44 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on October 11, 2019, 04:37:40 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on October 10, 2019, 06:28:08 PM
It's probably gonna sound snarky to assert that the reason this cost data may be strange and surprising to this newbie prof is that, as a grad student at many schools, probably it wouldn't have been conceivably doable to afford attending any such conferences, and it goeth without saying it certainly is impossible for almost all adjuncts, irrespective of additional pt retail income, and regardless of the fantastic rich get richer networking opportunities lost thereby.  Ah well.

Yellowtractor's phrase "mentored by wolves" comes to mind.  Ideally, a department would contribute to the professionalization of a grad student by only accepting people who can be fully funded and that includes funding for a relevant professional conference per year.  That was true for all my graduate work, even at the unranked program where I was one of a handful of graduate students.

Mahagonny's assertion that all academics should insist on professional-level compensation including funding for professional development comes to mind.  By accepting positions that don't pay enough to be a true professional including the relevant networking, one has made their own life much harder.  The human world tends to run by personal contacts, no matter how many times we try to set up systems that will sort in some other way.  Failure to accept that reality makes one's life harder than it has to be.

"Mentored by Wolves" pretty much describes my graduate education.  Maybe coyotes would be more accurate for some of the faculty.
The thing is, I went to an ivy league school with lots and lots of money.  I'm sure if anybody had wanted to go to a conference, it would have been funded plus.  And maybe somebody did, who knows.  But our faculty certainly never told us what an academic conference was or why it might be a good investment of time and money.  Visual arts is a field that people enter into assuming that they won't be making large amounts of money unless they're very lucky.  So, when we have jobs such as adjunct at a really fun school or visiting for a year or two, we feel grateful and happy.  Bad setup for financial security.

My own job is one I feel grateful for.  I really like the people I work with, there are some weird things about the job but basically it's great.  I "trained" for this by being a professional artist and then directing a successful artist-run alternative space.  It's true, I don't get paid a lot (and my gallery has a small budget of which I am protective), and this is a challenge for me.  But I have a job in my field, nice co-workers, an office (which maybe I could turn into a studio without anyone being the wiser ha ha), and an opportunity to provide a cool platform for interesting artists while supporting the interests of my university.  So yeah, in some ways it's a compromise.  And I've mostly had to teach myself the skills I have--especially curatorial and arts-admin skills.  Hence my excitement about this upcoming conference, and the opportunity for self-education that this represents for me.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: polly_mer on October 11, 2019, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: revert79 on October 11, 2019, 05:20:44 AM
The thing is, I went to an ivy league school with lots and lots of money. 

Narratives on these fora and the first-person articles written in various venues over the years suggest that neither ranking of institution/program or resources available correlate with good mentoring and/or reasonable support in becoming professionals in the field.  Many parts of academia still have the worst aspects of being an apprentice tied to one master and one has to hope like hell that's a good master as one picks using inadequate information.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Ruralguy on October 11, 2019, 07:48:37 AM
Almost all of us have to make the most of what we have rather than making the most out of a fountain of riches.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: Morden on October 11, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
If possible, try to go to the same conference several years in a row. Volunteer to help with the organization in some capacity. You start to meet more people and build a network that way. It makes the conference more fun (especially for introverts) and can lead to publishing or other professional opportunities.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: euro_trash on October 12, 2019, 01:01:25 AM
How expensive is expensive? Depends on how much funding you can get.

I'm on the board of an academic association that puts on one conference a year in Europe. We offer grad students a €50 fee, though sometimes we waive this altogether. We're also trying to offer stipends, but our budget is small. We're trying though, much more than the MLA in my view.

I think a key issue is how to cut costs, especially for junior scholars. If the conference is charging hundreds and hundreds for the registration fee, that is not a conference imo. That's a money-making venture. How can you get new young people involved if you're pricing them out of participation?

Airbnb is a good way to save money. I've camped with a tent before.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: mamselle on October 13, 2019, 07:12:36 AM
Just for a low-end benchmark:

I'm going to a small, midwestern state medievalists' conference that happens twice a year. I started going while I had family in the area, and still go from time to time to check in with friends, and develop a paper for later use in a larger venue.

The conference is Nov 2; we'll meet, hear/give three papers, and go someplace nice for dinner. (This group eats well).

I booked my flight a couple months ago, making it very cheap:    $200.00 or so
I just booked my usual hostel stay (5 nights, c/b 2; x 68.00/nt)    $300.00 (for just 2 needed nts only, 136.00)
I booked a car;  the meeting's further from town than usual.         $200.00 (also w/b less if just for 2 nts)
I'll buy food to cook at the hostel; lunch boxes incld/conf. day.    $200.00 or less, includes 2 dinner splurges
          TOTAL (oh, plus maybe 50/gas)*  :                                                           $950.00

(*No fees, this is a very low-budget, friendly group so =0)

That's including 3 days of visiting, etc.  If I were only going on an in-and-out sort of deal, I could probably make it on $400-500.00. (Humanities)

I know the hostel, it's pleasant and has a great kitchen. I know the people, no need to dress fancy or spread lots of money around to impress folks. We're just a tiny clutch of medievalists passionate about our work and happy to share it in this low-key way. (I'm in touch with/present at two or three other similar groups closer to me, too; same sort of expenses or less: two are reachable by bus, so even cheaper: $200-300.00 total usually.)

I get a line on my CV, a chance to stay in touch with my tribe, and encouragement in my work.

Priceless.

M.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: downer on October 13, 2019, 07:50:35 AM
I recently went to an academic event in a southern city and also visited a neighboring city for a couple of days. I stayed in an airbnb for 2 days and stayed with friends the rest of the time. No registration fees.

Flight and other transportation: about $320
Airbnb: $140.
Food and drink: about $150

So it was a mini-vacation and an academic thing too for a little over $600.
Title: Re: conference = expensive = what's normal?
Post by: fleabite on October 14, 2019, 07:41:36 PM
Quote from: revert79 on October 11, 2019, 05:20:44 AMAnd I've mostly had to teach myself the skills I have--especially curatorial and arts-admin skills.  Hence my excitement about this upcoming conference, and the opportunity for self-education that this represents for me.

The publisher Rowman & Littlefield publishes a line of books for those who work in museums and archives. You might find some of the items of interest. Here's a link to the most recent catalogue: https://rowman.com/catalogs/rlmuseum19/mobile/index.html (https://rowman.com/catalogs/rlmuseum19/mobile/index.html).