Hello,
I am in the process of applying for a Ph.D and has I am an older person, 49, looking to start her Ph.D next year, I am concerned at my age will be a disqualifying factor for the best schools. Any suggestions on how I can overcome this?
Thank you in advance for your replies and feedback.
I looked around for a graduate studies section on the fora to which to refer the OP, but didn't find one.
Disclaimer -- this reply assumes the OP is in the US.
The short answer is no, your age won't "disqualify" you from admission to a PhD program. The long answer is that so much information is missing from the OP that it's impossible to guess what, in fact, might present a problem to you as an applicant. Suppose, for example, you have a BS and MS in biochemistry and have been working as a research associate at a National Cancer Institute lab for the past 20 years, and now want to pursue a PhD in that field from Georgetown. Probably would be fine. Suppose, on the other hand, that you have a 1999 BA in history from a small, now-defunct liberal arts college with an overall GPA of 2.3 and have spent the past 20 years outside of any academic environment. This would present some challenges if you want to apply to a PhD program in economics at Harvard. None of them would be your age.
I agree with miss jane marple that age alone is not a problem for admission to a graduate program. The relevant questions are more related to how competitive one is for admission based on experience and research statement.
I would strongly encourage anyone considering a PhD program to read through 100 Reasons NOT to Go to Graduate School (http://100rsns.blogspot.com/p/complete-list-to-date.html) and think carefully about how many of them apply. Even the BS/MS in biochemistry currently working in the field from miss jane marple's example is probably better off not going if the goal is TT at an R1 since biochemistry is an oversubscribed field in STEM with many fine people not getting a TT position.
http://thefora.org/index.php?topic=207.0
I hope that the OP starts here.
I was traveling yesterday and had time to read my cell phone. I was able to access an article on the Chronicle about liberal arts programs in general and history programs in particular and about the job prospects and alternate career paths. As I read it on my phone, I dont have the link. However, I hope that before the OP attempts to start a path that takes years to complete and MAY have limited job prospects, I hope that he or she considers everything before starting.
In addition to concerns about whether or not the age would be a drawback to getting accepted, another consideration would be the age when applying for jobs. The OP will be starting a PhD program at 50. That would mean that he/she would be between 55 and 60 when finished. While no university would (overtly) even consider using age as a factor to determine whether someone should be interviewed for a position, that doesnt mean that some crazy faculty member wouldnt say, "I can consider anything I want, I m tenured! They cant tell me what to do or consider".
Good advice, but you (plural) are assuming the OP wants a PhD in order to obtain a specific job. Some people want a PhD because they want to study something in depth and write about it. With so little information, we just don't know.
Quote from: miss jane marple on July 12, 2019, 05:55:07 AM
Good advice, but you (plural) are assuming the OP wants a PhD in order to obtain a specific job. Some people want a PhD because they want to study something in depth and write about it. With so little information, we just don't know.
That is indeed a different situation. I'm not in a field where anyone does that, especially not at midlife. People do, though, get new jobs at age 55 or even 65.
So, OP, we need more information. What are your goals?
Thank you to everyone for the insight. I am considering the Ph.D to deepen my understanding of a particular topic in the digital age. The plan would be, on completion of the studies, to go back into the private sector, write a book and consult. Ten years ago I considered this endeavour but decided to pursue my own business and now, I don't want to find myself in another ten years asking the same questions. Yes, it could take me a number of years to complete but if I carefully pick the school, I will definitely want to publish and present my finding as I undertake my research but the end game would be back to the private sector, probably as a consultant (which I am already doing). I am looking at schools in the USA and Europe.
Why do you need a doctorate to deepen your understanding of a topic that may have very little formal coursework or even formal literature associated with it?
If graduate-level courses already exist, then you may be better off enrolling in the relevant courses as a non-degree seeking student or a master's student, depending on how many courses exist at a given institution in the area that interests you.
If the courses don't exist, then it's unclear to me how enrolling as a student helps. Members of the public can often get access to relevant literature by making arrangements with the library of a public research institution as a guest/visitor/member of the public. The terms vary by institution, but many states require a program to exist.
If you're already an experienced consultant, then perhaps paying to talk to consultants in the relevant field to be mentored as you do some research might be a better path than having to follow all the rules associated with a graduate program. At least as a starting point, asking specific questions of the consultants might help you better select a program that will let you do what you want instead of forcing you to spend a lot of time on areas that don't interest you, but are required for the program.
Instead of paying money to a program, can you just fund yourself as if on sabbatical from your regular work? (Because you'd have to shut down much of your ongoing work to do a scholastic program, anyway).
Find one or two online or F2F cohorts to work with as challenge/support buddies,, scout some of the schools you're looking at for instructors whose books are pertinent to your interests, and maybe start just researching the papers you'd expect to do as part of those classes' coursework. You may even be able to see the seminar assignments online, just read and follow along.
Find research partners as you do the readings and reach out to those whose studies you agree or disagree with. Start checking out the journals and conferences in which one aspect or another of your work is discussed.
You can attend those as an independent scholar.
Be sober, sane, and steady about your participation, and, if you reach the point where your work seems solid enough, start proposing abstracts and giving talks if they're accepted.
Build on your strengths, get your work out and known, and see where that takes you. It may be satisfying enough that you will have addressed the research issues that are bugging you, and I agree, if after so long they're still crying for your attention, I'd say they're "yours,"...your children, your calling, your charge to fulfill.
If you have a Holy Grail thing about it, and it doesn't let up, that's one way of either identifying your calling, or getting yourself pink-papered...
(Hmm...Maybe I need to re-start the Independent Scholars' thread...)
M.
@Polly_Mer,
Thank you for this advise. I was hoping to get that "piece of paper' too but as you state, some of the courses for undertaking a Ph.D just don't seem relevant to the actual research. One of the schools I entered into contact mentioned my age which is what led me to post on this forum. While the topic I am interested in is very topical I am also concerned that in 5 years time (if I manage to complete the Ph.D in that time frame) other consultants, who have a partial background might have stepped in. Perhaps the point is do I require a Ph.D from a top school? Perhaps I can consider undertaking the Ph.D part-time?
@Mamselle, Thank you. Yes, very practical. If I postpone the Ph.D application for a year, it is no big deal especially if this coming year allows me to start presenting the content that I probably would only get to in year 3 of my formal studies. Last year I carried out some research (new topic for me) and not even a year later, the Financial Times has invited me as a panelist at a regional conference on that particular topic. I know how to get speaker slots at conferences in the private sector easily. Somehow I might struggle if the school has restrictions on presentations.
Quote from: assissi28 on July 14, 2019, 10:28:18 AM
if this coming year allows me to start presenting the content that I probably would only get to in year 3 of my formal studies.
If you're already presenting in this area and you know the content you want doesn't come until year 3 of formal studies, then I have to ask again why you want to fiddle around with a doctorate in this area instead of just doing the work as a professional.
Academics care a lot about one's formal degrees and academic pedigree. The rest of us care about results and actually doing the work.
If you're a consultant and already can convince people to pay for your expertise, then you don't need years of hoop jumping for a degree that doesn't give you any additional credibility.
@Polly_mer, that is a good question. I originate from Africa and, in many circles, Ph.Ds from prestigious universities carry a lot of weight. Let me give this some more thought because the middle ground might be doing some professional courses and networking within those universities.
Quote from: assissi28 on July 14, 2019, 10:28:18 AM
@Mamselle, Thank you. Yes, very practical. If I postpone the Ph.D application for a year, it is no big deal especially if this coming year allows me to start presenting the content that I probably would only get to in year 3 of my formal studies. Last year I carried out some research (new topic for me) and not even a year later, the Financial Times has invited me as a panelist at a regional conference on that particular topic. I know how to get speaker slots at conferences in the private sector easily. Somehow I might struggle if the school has restrictions on presentations.
I'm not actually thinking "postpone," but "sidestep."
The work is your work. Just do the work. The work doesn't care if you have a degree or not.
M.
I agree. Cross-posting from thread http://thefora.org/index.php?topic=345.msg5248#msg5248 (http://thefora.org/index.php?topic=345.msg5248#msg5248):
Quote from: marshwiggle on July 13, 2019, 02:23:24 PM
[. . .]
Heresy alert, from the 2nd article:
Quote
Those of us who have made a successful career transition out of academe have learned that the "transferable skills" we "developed in graduate school" are transferable precisely because they are the same skills that other professionals — equally smart and capable — are developing on the job in industry, foundations, or government agencies. Critical thinking, program and project management, qualitative and quantitative research, synthesizing evidence and data, data-informed decision making — none of those are unique to academe.
[. . . ]
This is really very field dependent. I have a number of colleagues who started Ph.D. programs much later in life. I myself started in my 30s. These examples tend to be in the professional fields (e.g., business, nursing). In such cases, adding a Ph.D. to extensive professional experience makes you more marketable for both consulting and also for tt jobs.
Summers_off
Thank you for the insight. I am uncertain of which way to go on this and it is pretty tricky. I however, did notice that the schools I was considering don't offer phds in the topics I want so back to considering schools. Some good has come out of this thread. The next few weeks will be about identifying a school and interacting with the faculty (which also seems a bit difficult to do). There is significant preparation work to be juggled as some schools want a GMAT while others only want proof of advanced mathematics applications with the proposal. So yes, a careful decision has to be made before I embark on something that will take years.
Remember that late July/early August can be a terrible time to find faculty, much less interact with them. Don't worry if you get crickets during late summer.
You will need to choose your program carefully and even more importantly, your dissertation supervisor. That relationship is the most important one and can make or break your Ph.D. program. Some supervisors are only interested in students who wish to pursue academic careers and consider others a waste of their time.
If you go to an ivy league or highly ranked school, expect to be one of the older students since most of those programs admit young students. I went to an ivy for my doctorate at 32 and was considered very old.
Polly_Mer's advice about reading the 100 Reasons Not to Go to Grad School should be required reading for all prospective PhD students.
Good luck!
Thank you! The suggestions have been absolutely invaluable and it did make me stop and wonder whether it is worth embarking on a ph.d at this point in my career. I reconsidered the schools and I found a programme at Oxford which will fit into my lifestyle and offers the field of study that I am interested in. Now to the application process.
You mention Oxford: Other UK institutions will allow you to do a PhD without courses, so you can get done in 3 years if you are motivated enough, and you wouldn't be spending your time on stuff that isn't relevant, you could focus just on writing.
Many have remote options, so you could fly over a couple of times a year to meet with your supervisor, and keep consulting on the side. This means you wouldn't have to step out of the private sector into academia.
Echoing this. I did a PhD by Previously Published Works at a university in the UK. I'm in the humanities and it changed my career for the better in significant ways.
So, for example, something like this?
https://www.westminster.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/research-degrees/mode-of-study/phd-by-published-work
I never knew such a thing existed. Very interesting...
OP, sorry, maybe off-topic...or maybe not?
M.
Yes, they exist. However my friend mentioned that publishing these case studies/research work is as demanding as undergoing the traditional Ph.D route. Still researching my options. Thank you!!
Quote from: assissi28 on July 13, 2019, 02:30:38 PM
I am considering the Ph.D to deepen my understanding of a particular topic.
We are being trolled.