At least I hope so. They do the things we did with our kids as a matter of course and whine. Definitely our parents would have said WTF: https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/04/business/back-to-school-expenses-struggle/index.html
Wow. It's really unbelievable that everyone involved here just accepted putting these three paragraphs together:
Quote
Just 36% of parents said they would be able to pay for everything their kids need this school year, according to Morning Consult's annual back-to-school shopping report. That's down sharply from 52% in 2021, when inflation was lower and stimulus checks plus advance child tax credit payments helped some families.
"My shopping habits have changed significantly," said Longmore, an HR professional who lives in the Poconos in Pennsylvania with her husband and five children.
The Longmores earn more than $100,000 a year, well above the median US household income of nearly $65,000. But with five young children, the family's expenses are also well above average, and Longmore said it's not enough to keep her household running comfortably — a problem underscored in the back-to-school season as four of the couple's children are of school age.
Five is a lot of children, and not at all cheap, to be sure. But the idea that
inflation has made
their lives unbearably burdensome, to the point that a $25 bookbag is out of the question, is... yeah, surreal.
Does it make you two angry to see this kind of article in CNN? If it were in FOX, couldn't you just say 'oh there they go again with their fiction! Well, no one's gonna read it but the fascists, so who cares?' But since it's on CNN, that means people who are supposed to be Biden fans will read it. What a blow to the current almost head-of-steam the democrats have thrown together.
I love the mere $100K! And kids are a choice, and cheaper by the dozen [well, they exhibit economies of scale], as everyone knows.
Between the ages of six and 10 or so, I was dressed in hand-me-downs. Those pesky growth spurts are not cheap, 'ya know.
In High School I was once asked whether I had gotten my Fall coat yet. Perplexed, I responded: What's a Fall coat?
This is an "I want more" article. Hell, get a second job.
Quote from: dismalist on September 04, 2022, 04:04:50 PM
I love the mere $100K! And kids are a choice, and cheaper by the dozen [well, they exhibit economies of scale], as everyone knows.
Between the ages of six and 10 or so, I was dressed in hand-me-downs. Those pesky growth spurts are not cheap, 'ya know.
In High School I was once asked whether I had gotten my Fall coat yet. Perplexed, I responded: What's a Fall coat?
This is an "I want more" article. Hell, get a second job.
This is more the pattern than the exception. CNN doesn't care whether the current inflation is truly unmanageable to this family or is just a nuisance. They can sell more newspapers by spreading fear about our society nearing total destruction. Same reason liberals are inclined to overestimate by something like 1000% the number of unarmed black men killed by police each year. They're reading CNN and getting their news from commentary, propaganda instead of decent reporting.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
Does it make you two angry to see this kind of article in CNN? If it were in FOX, couldn't you just say 'oh there they go again with their fiction! Well, no one's gonna read it but the fascists, so who cares?' But since it's on CNN, that means people who are supposed to be Biden fans will read it. What a blow to the current almost head-of-steam the democrats have thrown together.
Sorry, but I'd find it surreal no matter where I saw it. The reusing backpacks from year to year was odd enough, but the idea of handing down from one child to another? The horror!
Son and DIL are well above average in income, and yet have not purchased any clothes for 20 month old grandson. Except for the gifts from relatives (well, like two sets of grandparents who are well off) his massive amount of clothes are all hand me downs from friends and cousin's kids. They'll pass them on to whoever needs them.
Fox, CNN, WaPo, Washington Examiner: I'd be scornful no matter what the source. There are plenty of kids with legitimate needs: these were not them.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on September 04, 2022, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
Does it make you two angry to see this kind of article in CNN? If it were in FOX, couldn't you just say 'oh there they go again with their fiction! Well, no one's gonna read it but the fascists, so who cares?' But since it's on CNN, that means people who are supposed to be Biden fans will read it. What a blow to the current almost head-of-steam the democrats have thrown together.
Sorry, but I'd find it surreal no matter where I saw it. The reusing backpacks from year to year was odd enough, but the idea of handing down from one child to another? The horror!
Son and DIL are well above average in income, and yet have not purchased any clothes for 20 month old grandson. Except for the gifts from relatives (well, like two sets of grandparents who are well off) his massive amount of clothes are all hand me downs from friends and cousin's kids. They'll pass them on to whoever needs them.
Fox, CNN, WaPo, Washington Examiner: I'd be scornful no matter what the source. There are plenty of kids with legitimate needs: these were not them.
So how do you feel about democratic voters being so outrageously misinformed about the number of cop killings of black men? Before you answer, you might want to consider that the widespread ignorance of these voters most likely helps your party get its candidates elected.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 04:29:40 PM
Quote from: jimbogumbo on September 04, 2022, 04:23:37 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
Does it make you two angry to see this kind of article in CNN? If it were in FOX, couldn't you just say 'oh there they go again with their fiction! Well, no one's gonna read it but the fascists, so who cares?' But since it's on CNN, that means people who are supposed to be Biden fans will read it. What a blow to the current almost head-of-steam the democrats have thrown together.
Sorry, but I'd find it surreal no matter where I saw it. The reusing backpacks from year to year was odd enough, but the idea of handing down from one child to another? The horror!
Son and DIL are well above average in income, and yet have not purchased any clothes for 20 month old grandson. Except for the gifts from relatives (well, like two sets of grandparents who are well off) his massive amount of clothes are all hand me downs from friends and cousin's kids. They'll pass them on to whoever needs them.
Fox, CNN, WaPo, Washington Examiner: I'd be scornful no matter what the source. There are plenty of kids with legitimate needs: these were not them.
So how do you feel about democratic voters being so outrageously misinformed about the number of cop killings of black men? Before you answer, you might want to consider that the widespread ignorance of these voters most likely helps your party get its candidates elected.
Sincere question. Why is it impossible for you to discuss a topic without immediately trying to turn it into about one of your pet issues? The only ones I know of where you don't do this are either one you start, the music thread or the mental health thread.
That's not what your problem is. The widespread ignorance among democratic voters about the incidence of police brutality against black citizens, the supposed threat of white supremacist groups, and probably more, and the associated hysterical left dominated media of today are the fora's, and academia's pet issues to deny the existence of.
Now that they exaggerate about something in a way that makes your party and your president look bad, their low journalistic standards matter to you.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 04:57:58 PM
That's not what your problem is. The widespread ignorance among democratic voters about the incidence of police brutality against black citizens, the supposed threat of white supremacist groups, and probably more, and the associated hysterical left dominated media of today are the fora's, and academia's pet issues to deny the existence of.
Now that they exaggerate about something in a way that makes your party and your president look bad, their slippage of credibility matters to you.
The thing I hate the most in journalism is the misuse of statistics and data. If you don't realize that then you haven't paid attention to most of what I've posted.
The thing I hate the most about this board is your irrational rants. I guess now I can add personal attacks on my intentions also. Thanks so much for your deep thoughts.
The thing I hate most about this board is the topics of urgency that never get discussed, but to confess a guilty pleasure of mine, I also consider it entertaining in what it reveals about the agenda-driven tenure culture of today.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
Does it make you two angry to see this kind of article in CNN? If it were in FOX, couldn't you just say 'oh there they go again with their fiction! Well, no one's gonna read it but the fascists, so who cares?' But since it's on CNN, that means people who are supposed to be Biden fans will read it. What a blow to the current almost head-of-steam the democrats have thrown together.
My cousin used to write this sort of crap for
Business Insider ("how poor people can save $100k in ten years," etc.). Wherever I find it, it lowers my opinion of both the author and the outlet. I doubt my opinion of my cousin will ever recover.
I don't have deep thoughts that often, but when I notice something pertinent & obvious and there appears to be no interest in noting it, I will supply that interest.
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 05:24:09 PM
I don't have deep thoughts that often, but when I notice something pertinent & obvious and there appears to be no interest in noting it, I will supply that interest.
I think that's good. What I would appreciate is when it is neither pertinent nor obvious how it is connected to what we're talking about you might start a thread.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on September 04, 2022, 05:26:28 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on September 04, 2022, 05:24:09 PM
I don't have deep thoughts that often, but when I notice something pertinent & obvious and there appears to be no interest in noting it, I will supply that interest.
I think that's good. What I would appreciate is when it is neither pertinent nor obvious how it is connected to what we're talking about you might start a thread.
Well then thank you for that jimbo. Outside of you and who knows how many quiet lurkers, though, I doubt that I am welcome to start a thread, and I had mixed feelings about being so exposed. Probably I'm done with that.
I do think your question is interesting. Just how bad is the inflation situation for all of us?
ETA: Speaking for me and family, it's not clear how much it will affect our lifestyle in the longrun, but it certainly contributes to stress and depression.
I think it is pretty bad for everyone below the median yearly income and for those above who are overextended with debt. We now live in a high COL state to be near younger grandchild. My wife is trying to get me to agree to purchasing a cheaper second home in first stay to take care of aging parents more and visit older grandkids. Sorry, took a bath on a house "investment" for then young granddaughters to have a house to grow up in. That was 2007. A divorce for daughter and the subsequent selling of the property several years later at a roughly 400% negative ROI has suggested to me it is a bad idea.Trying to make sure we stay out of category two above.
Us Gen Xers did not even *have* backpacks in school. Books can be carried, though I do admit to stuffing them in my gym bag in hs (do kids even have gym clothes and change into them in schools nowadays?). If a backpack is needed, one bought last year ought to be plenty good enough. Those with $100k incomes, even in Inflationary America 2022, are not needy.
Quote from: kaysixteen on September 04, 2022, 09:23:16 PM
If a backpack is needed, one bought last year ought to be plenty good enough.
My Jansport rarely lasted more than one year before disintigrating.
Quote
Those with $100k incomes, even in Inflationary America 2022, are not needy.
Agreed. Although, with five kids, in Inflationary America 2022, I could imagine them occasionally bumping elbows with kind of financial budgeting requirements that dominate every minute of truly needy people's lives.
When we first moved to our current place, I was at the bottom of the pay scale and Absolutive's teaching credential hadn't transferred over yet, so he couldn't work. We were not truly needy--we had savings--but I was keenly aware of those months where we depleted our savings a bit more, and a bit more again, because the monthly income didn't quite cover expenses.
I have seen a bunch of headlines to articles (cannot actually stomach reading any of them) recently to the effect that many employers are now trying to force employees who have gotten used to pandemic working from home to go back to the office, and said employees are rebelling. Low wage retail 'essential worker' types, like underemployed humanities PhDs, never got Day 1's worth of work at home time, and had to, for that low wage, schlep on into work every day, during the raging pre-vax pandemic era, risking life and limb. My sympathy for spoiled sots who now do not want to return to the office is, well... almost as great as it is for $100k moms who whine about not having $25 for a new backpack for junior every year (BTW, even in Inflationary America 2022, you can still get a serviceable backpack at Wallyworld for noticeably less than this).
I am in total agreement with people who don't want to return to in-office work for various reasons. One is that some of us have health conditions that mean sitting around large offices with dozens of unmasked people is no safer than it was a year ago. The second is that commuting is a bear, and in high-cost-of-living areas, a lot of people are commuting from the lower-cost areas they can afford to live in. When I rode along with a friend in the Bay Area, I was horrified to see what a long commute she had come to see as inevitable. The extra pollution from all those cars and the cost of gas are extra aggravations as well as the dispiriting waste of time. She has now been working from home happily, saving 15 hours of commuting time a week, and hurray for her.
The inflation of middle-class life, though, to the point where everybody has to have all-new everything every school year, and decorate their dorm rooms like magazine spreads, and not disgrace themselves by taking an older car to college — yeah, color me old-fashioned and cantankerous on that front.
Quote from: kaysixteen on September 04, 2022, 09:23:16 PM
Us Gen Xers did not even *have* backpacks in school. Books can be carried, though I do admit to stuffing them in my gym bag in hs (do kids even have gym clothes and change into them in schools nowadays?). If a backpack is needed, one bought last year ought to be plenty good enough. Those with $100k incomes, even in Inflationary America 2022, are not needy.
This is the comment I found bizarre:
Quote
The younger children are inheriting siblings' backpacks and desks that still have life in them.
Families get new
desks for their kids every year?????
Again, there ae two questions for me. (1) How bad is it now and (2) how bad will it get. So you don't have to be at the stage of having to pay your heating and electricity bills late just before they get turned off to be legitimately worried about what's coming. Especially if you are one of those (like me) who is worried that our current POTUS is senile, narcissistic personality disorder afflicted, and backed by people with Trump derangement syndrome. Bottom line, the rate of inflation and indifference to it are very scary even if not yet crippling.
Quote from: kaysixteen on September 04, 2022, 11:58:17 PM
I have seen a bunch of headlines to articles (cannot actually stomach reading any of them) recently to the effect that many employers are now trying to force employees who have gotten used to pandemic working from home to go back to the office, and said employees are rebelling. Low wage retail 'essential worker' types, like underemployed humanities PhDs, never got Day 1's worth of work at home time, and had to, for that low wage, schlep on into work every day, during the raging pre-vax pandemic era, risking life and limb. My sympathy for spoiled sots who now do not want to return to the office is, well... almost as great as it is for $100k moms who whine about not having $25 for a new backpack for junior every year (BTW, even in Inflationary America 2022, you can still get a serviceable backpack at Wallyworld for noticeably less than this).
I am also sympathetic to the front-line workers who were hailed as 'essential' but still only paid minimum wage and got sick and died because of the forced exposure. That was unjust, and a profound failure on the part of society to protect and value its citizens.
I don't, however, see what that injustice has to do with the people who
do have the option of working from home. Do you also think that people shouldn't get pavloxid now because two years ago other people didn't get it and died? Denying one person the chance for a better quality of life because that same chance was denied to other people is only enforcing a weird kind of 'fairness' that is satisfied by bringing everyone down to the worst option, rather than trying to raise other people up to the best option.
In addition to increasing rush hour traffic, pollution, etc., crowded offices spread disease, and sick office workers still have to buy groceries, where they might infect the checkout clerks all over again.
A coworker of mine said her kids LOVED their older cousins' hand-me-downs. They saw it as a rite of passage that they were becoming "big kids."
But seriously, I don't recall buying school supplies. My school had pencils, pens, paper, etc for everyone.
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 05, 2022, 08:50:22 AM
A coworker of mine said her kids LOVED their older cousins' hand-me-downs. They saw it as a rite of passage that they were becoming "big kids."
But seriously, I don't recall buying school supplies. My school had pencils, pens, paper, etc for everyone.
Same here. As I recall, any "back to school" shopping happened
after school began, if and when teachers sent home a list of specific items needed for a course, such as a geometry set for math or pencil crayons for geography that would involve map-making. There was no "generic" purchase, even of clothing, that I remember. (And similar when I was a parent; I certainly didn't run out to purchase new wardrobes for my kids each fall.)
I do not, up to a point, mind people working from home, if they have the health conditions or family with conditions that make it a good idea, but in Vaxxed America this is less needful. But:
1) it is certainly true that people working from home at jobs that used to be on-site can, and many will, simply do less work than those in the office. This is more or less parallel to what we have sadly discovered with regard to remote, virtual schooling-- we are simply avoiding dealing with the lost year aspect of k12 kids' education during the pandemic, esp for non-affluent kids/ school districts, and this is another way the lower economic orders are screwed over. It is not hard to see why employers would want to say enough here, because, well, it is much less dangerous to go in to work than it was in April 2020.
2) It is unacceptable for those not wanting to go into the office again to whine about this requirement (esp if they have no health concerns undergirding this desire), and unseemly to do so.
BTW, did anyone catch the part in the OP's quoted story, where the schoolteacher said that she had customarily bought school supplies for her students, but inflation makes her unable to do so this year? That teachers are expected to do this is appalling-- can anyone imagine a college professor buying school supplies for his students, or faulted when he cannot afford to do that? But it is also true, as marshwiggle noted, that for most of us Xer types (and olders), we can recall going to school where, esp at elem school level, the school itself bought these supplies for students. Schools/ school districts, following antitax policies, have largely outsourced to parents many things we used to take for granted that they would provide. Another way the lower orders are taking it on the chin...
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 05, 2022, 09:31:25 AM
Same here. As I recall, any "back to school" shopping happened after school began, if and when teachers sent home a list of specific items needed for a course, such as a geometry set for math or pencil crayons for geography that would involve map-making. There was no "generic" purchase, even of clothing, that I remember. (And similar when I was a parent; I certainly didn't run out to purchase new wardrobes for my kids each fall.)
When I taught secondary school about 10 years ago, the teachers were expected to make a list at the end of each year detailing what a student in each class would need for the next year; these lists were then distributed to all students but also the local supply stores. Walmart in particular would print them out and have all the lists available at the front of the store for at least all of July. So the list might require a "backpack" (but it of course wasn't required to be new) and a "3-ring binder" (again, needn't be new) but also some teachers would require very specific things that didn't necessarily match the previous year's (e.g. not "two pens" but "one blue pen, one red pen"; not "3-ring binder" but "1.5-inch 3-ring binder with clear front pocket"). And lots of things wear out; 10 years ago, personal dry-erase markers were all the rage, but most of them lasted only a month or two. I can't imagine more than a few survived from one school year to the next.
AR.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 05, 2022, 04:06:50 AM
Families get new desks for their kids every year?????
I missed that!
Old desks are better anyway.
Quote from: kaysixteen on September 05, 2022, 10:31:23 AM
2) It is unacceptable for those not wanting to go into the office again to whine about this requirement (esp if they have no health concerns undergirding this desire), and unseemly to do so.
I've read a few articles recently about companies wanting to get employees back in person, but surprisingly they seem to say very little about productivity; they talk more about "creativity" and "innovation" inspired by in-person interaction. The writers of the articles often point out the cost of expensive leases on (now mostly vacant) office space. The point is, if
productivity was suffering in a big way, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops and would have a much better case for bringing people back.
Most recent studies indicate workers are more productive at home: https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivity-statistics/
As crazy as it sounds, a 100k income can be quite challenging depending where you live and what stage of life you are at. To afford a home in Toronto, you need a family income of over 200k (Canadian). A family living in this area with 100k income would be struggling to some extent. Many are worse off, but it is hard to balance the household budget these days.
Quote from: jimbogumbo on September 05, 2022, 01:25:36 PM
Most recent studies indicate workers are more productive at home: https://www.apollotechnical.com/working-from-home-productivity-statistics/
Quote
those who work at home are more consistent, work more hours, and get more done.
Quoteworking more minutes per shift because of fewer breaks and sick days.
That's more input, not more output per hour of work.
If the numbers in the article were anywhere near true, those sectors would have shed labor like crazy. No, the end of the epidemic marks the end of the lap top class, though of course some bits will remain.
Kron: I don't think it's crazy at all to think that- I was just questioning the choice of who to feature in the article, and what they thought were hardships.
Teachers have indeed been putting out lists of supplies for students to bring for decades, and yes in many higher need schools the teachers are supplying things for students. Our church served an inner city area, and each fall we donated many things, including underwear and socks to a couple of local partner schools.
Quote from: ergative on September 04, 2022, 10:51:03 PM
Quote from: kaysixteen on September 04, 2022, 09:23:16 PM
If a backpack is needed, one bought last year ought to be plenty good enough.
My Jansport rarely lasted more than one year before disintigrating.
I normally get four or five years out of one, and I and the local climate are not particularly gentle with them. I'm kind of odd in still wearing a backpack to walk to work every day in my 50s.
Hand-me-downs are pretty common where I live. My younger brother didn't ever have to wear hand-me-down clothes, since he was built differently from me, but I, the eldest, occasionally got them from an older cousin.
We have a major school supplies drive every year in our town for children who can't afford them. There's a major need for them. We're in many cases talking here about households that are in poverty by
any First-World standard. I've known of cases locally where a grade-school student had to go to school wearing his grandfather's coat in a cold day. That's the kind of need that disturbs me most.
There were four of us, and it wasn't exactly 'organized (that would have been too structural...) but we sort-of shared stuff on our list each fall for school: there were 3-4 wooden rulers around the house, so everyone got one, and maybe a couple full boxes of crayons (I always made sure mine had the turquoise and magenta shades that often went missing)...etc.
We only went to the drugstore the night before classes started to get whatever we didn't already have.
Backpacks were for camping; we had schoolbags--well, I did, because by 4th grade I'd started carrying all my books home everyday on principle--and by 7th grade I'd given up on any kind of a bag and just stacked them under my chin--the others had, maybe those string bags with the ropes that pull both ways?
But backpacks were for camping, at least until I got to college in the early 70s or so.
I don't recall feeling like we were poor, but we didn't waste money; we each had a desk to work at, and I think a couple of us still have those, too.
But so did everyone else, I think.
M.