How to deal with student who told me that he pays for my salary?

Started by hamburger, January 26, 2020, 01:09:58 PM

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secundem_artem

hamburger - here's a story for you that seems to apply.  See if you can figure out the connection.

Once upon a time a man went bear hunting in the woods.  He spied a bear, took aim, but missed.  The bear came running for the man and caught him.  "Were you shooting at me?, asked the bear.  "Yes" came the reply.  "I have a special way of treating people who shoot at me" said the bear.  And proceeded to do dirty, dirty things to the man.

The man went home, embarrassed but unchastened.  The next day, the same events repeated themselves, except the bear's revenge was even more perverted and heinous.

On the third day, the man is furious. He unloads every bullet he can find, all to no avail.  He misses with them all.  He tries to outrun the bear but fails.  The bear catches him and looks at him quizzically.  "You don't really come here for the hunting do you?", asks the bear.

See if you can figure out the connection between this story and your posts on these here fora.
Funeral by funeral, the academy advances

hamburger

Quote from: secundem_artem on March 18, 2020, 08:52:24 AM
hamburger - here's a story for you that seems to apply.  See if you can figure out the connection.

Once upon a time a man went bear hunting in the woods.  He spied a bear, took aim, but missed.  The bear came running for the man and caught him.  "Were you shooting at me?, asked the bear.  "Yes" came the reply.  "I have a special way of treating people who shoot at me" said the bear.  And proceeded to do dirty, dirty things to the man.

The man went home, embarrassed but unchastened.  The next day, the same events repeated themselves, except the bear's revenge was even more perverted and heinous.

On the third day, the man is furious. He unloads every bullet he can find, all to no avail.  He misses with them all.  He tries to outrun the bear but fails.  The bear catches him and looks at him quizzically.  "You don't really come here for the hunting do you?", asks the bear.

See if you can figure out the connection between this story and your posts on these here fora.

I like this story very much. Thanks secundem_artem. What dirty things did the bear do to the man?

Ruralguy


Let me translate: If you keep getting "tortured" by heinous students and then don't change the situation, one might conclude that you enjoy being tortured by heinous students. Or, maybe more realistically, that you are paralyzed into just being frozen into this situation and feeling helpless. So, Hamburger, get out of the situation by either not letting students get to you (choose your method for that), or just leave the school completely, not just jumping from department to department. That's obviously not doing you any good.

Cheerful

Quote from: hamburger on March 18, 2020, 06:21:03 AM
Thanks. I just loudly told him (and indirectly reminded the rest of the class) to stop what he was doing as it was considered to be cheating. Anyway, the test only worth 10 marks and the assignment only 1 mark. The remaining 70% of the total are from 2 more assignments and various tests. Since there is no way to prevent cheating and I am sure they will do it, everybody will pass this time even they got zero in the previous part of the course. Giving this guy a zero in the assignment and in the test would not hurt him. Just created more work for me and the administrator. I don't think the administrator would like that especially in the current world situation.

You're in a place that is still holding classes in person?  Where is that?  Antarctica?


polly_mer

Quote from: Cheerful on March 18, 2020, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: hamburger on March 18, 2020, 06:21:03 AM
Thanks. I just loudly told him (and indirectly reminded the rest of the class) to stop what he was doing as it was considered to be cheating. Anyway, the test only worth 10 marks and the assignment only 1 mark. The remaining 70% of the total are from 2 more assignments and various tests. Since there is no way to prevent cheating and I am sure they will do it, everybody will pass this time even they got zero in the previous part of the course. Giving this guy a zero in the assignment and in the test would not hurt him. Just created more work for me and the administrator. I don't think the administrator would like that especially in the current world situation.

You're in a place that is still holding classes in person?  Where is that?  Antarctica?

The UK's Exeter University only stopped in-person classes this week.

Last week, most Canadian universities were still open.

Parts of Africa and some countries in Central/South America have no reported cases, which means things are likely still open.

Locally, a Montessori school was flat out told by the state board of health to remain open and take in new kids from the employees of the local hospital to ensure continuity of medical service.  The public schools are closed, but that combination daycare/school is open in the best interests of the community.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

hamburger

Quote from: Cheerful on March 18, 2020, 02:09:49 PM
Quote from: hamburger on March 18, 2020, 06:21:03 AM
Thanks. I just loudly told him (and indirectly reminded the rest of the class) to stop what he was doing as it was considered to be cheating. Anyway, the test only worth 10 marks and the assignment only 1 mark. The remaining 70% of the total are from 2 more assignments and various tests. Since there is no way to prevent cheating and I am sure they will do it, everybody will pass this time even they got zero in the previous part of the course. Giving this guy a zero in the assignment and in the test would not hurt him. Just created more work for me and the administrator. I don't think the administrator would like that especially in the current world situation.

You're in a place that is still holding classes in person?  Where is that?  Antarctica?


The test was held about a month ago. Students were complaining about in person classes. Just like most places, everything is online for the remaining of the semester.

Wahoo Redux

Quote from: Ruralguy on March 18, 2020, 01:32:56 PM

Let me translate: If you keep getting "tortured" by heinous students and then don't change the situation, one might conclude that you enjoy being tortured by heinous students. Or, maybe more realistically, that you are paralyzed into just being frozen into this situation and feeling helpless. So, Hamburger, get out of the situation by either not letting students get to you (choose your method for that), or just leave the school completely, not just jumping from department to department. That's obviously not doing you any good.

Interesting.  I thought the story was about the student constantly "hunting" a bear-of-an-education by "shooting" at his teachers and "missing" the mark and then getting tortured so he could be pissed off.  I thought the point was that this guy, the student, just wants to be a b*tch by pretending to be after something in the forest.   I thought the "nasty things" were the grades and hamburger was the bear.

Kind of like that "Wrestling with a pig in mud.  Pretty soon you realize the pig is having fun" thing.

In other words, this guy is just coming to class so he can be a jerkface, so don't play his game.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

Ruralguy


polly_mer

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 18, 2020, 09:02:26 PM
Quote from: Ruralguy on March 18, 2020, 01:32:56 PM

Let me translate: If you keep getting "tortured" by heinous students and then don't change the situation, one might conclude that you enjoy being tortured by heinous students. Or, maybe more realistically, that you are paralyzed into just being frozen into this situation and feeling helpless. So, Hamburger, get out of the situation by either not letting students get to you (choose your method for that), or just leave the school completely, not just jumping from department to department. That's obviously not doing you any good.

Interesting.  I thought the story was about the student constantly "hunting" a bear-of-an-education by "shooting" at his teachers and "missing" the mark and then getting tortured so he could be pissed off.  I thought the point was that this guy, the student, just wants to be a b*tch by pretending to be after something in the forest.   I thought the "nasty things" were the grades and hamburger was the bear.

Kind of like that "Wrestling with a pig in mud.  Pretty soon you realize the pig is having fun" thing.

In other words, this guy is just coming to class so he can be a jerkface, so don't play his game.

I've almost never encountered anyone coming to class to be a jerk face.  I have, however, encountered significant numbers of enrolled individuals who wanted to have a better paying job without actually learning any of the things that result in doing well at a good paying job.  Those folks tend to keep acting out in the hopes that requirements will be relaxed, much the way that small children keep pestering in the hopes of wearing one down.  I can remember more than one student who failed courses with me multiple times because they refused to believe that standards are standards and I will indeed record Fs for academic misconduct, 0s for non-submitted work, and a final grade of F for not meeting the requirements of the course.

I have also encountered a fair number of employed people who would rather stay in a bad, familiar situation than take a chance on getting a better situation.  The fear of ending up somewhere even worse wins over the possibility of getting something better, even when practically anything would be better and nearly all worse situations would involve criminal offenses like physical abuse.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

Wahoo Redux

I have never met someone who goes to all the time and expense of college for the sole purpose of being a jerkface either.  But there is a certain sociopath-type personality who would rather do anything than admit they were wrong, including blaming the professor for their own failure.  It sounds to me like hamburger's nemesis can't face his own inability and lack of a work ethic, so blames Prof. Burger for his own problems.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

hamburger

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 19, 2020, 08:28:48 AM
I have never met someone who goes to all the time and expense of college for the sole purpose of being a jerkface either.  But there is a certain sociopath-type personality who would rather do anything than admit they were wrong, including blaming the professor for their own failure.  It sounds to me like hamburger's nemesis can't face his own inability and lack of a work ethic, so blames Prof. Burger for his own problems.

My colleagues told me that there are students who blame the professors for their failures. There are also students who keep pushing via emails so that when the professor got angry and wrote something they could use for their advantage, they would forward the email to the department head and make their demands. They like to say that their "human rights" are being violated, they don't "feel comfortable" to go to the class anymore, etc.

About this jer*... I already gave him a higher score for his last assignment than he deserved. I also did not give him a zero even he was cheating in the test. Yet, he continues to send me emails with all sorts of demands to bother me. Can I just ignore him?

clean

Quotebout this jer*... I already gave him a higher score for his last assignment than he deserved. I also did not give him a zero even he was cheating in the test. Yet, he continues to send me emails with all sorts of demands to bother me. Can I just ignore him?

You keep giving the bully your milk money.  Why do you think that HE will stop?

IF he is demanding things that you are not doing for everyone, then say something like, "I have to treat everyone the same. I will not discriminate in your favor. I can not do XX for you as I would not do it for anyone else."

Then just take the bloody nose. Let the bully forward his demands to your chair.  AND STOP giving in the the bully!  IF he cheats, write him up, and BY ALL MEANS grade him FAIRLY (which in my mind means Accurately!!)


For the rest....
I have not read "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". (As I have a PhD I am Already an Expert on Everything... at least I think that is what happened when I was hooded). I understand that Martians hear a Venetian complain and then try to recommend corrective actions or devise a plan to DO something about the situation. I understand that Venetians  really just want to discuss the issue and vent about it, or otherwise seek something OTHER than a plan for action. 
AS with the Bear Story, I am wondering IF you are a Martian who is seeking advice to DO something about it, or a Venetian who just wants to talk it out.  IF the later, then I fear that I will not be much longer in this thread.  As I recall some definition of Insanity including doing the same thing over and again and expecting a different outcome comes to mind, and I am not equipped to treat insanity.

Good luck on what you decide to do.  Hopefully you will Mars up and handle the issue to your satisfaction.
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader

Wahoo Redux

Give jerkface one final email to the effect of, "I am sorry we cannot agree on XXXXX, but these are the standards as stipulated in the syllabus.  I cannot accommodate you any further.  Best, Dr. Burger."  Copy your chair.  You may have to refer him up the line unless your chair is also a royal jerkface. 
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

hamburger

Thanks. I already told him and other students how to calculate something that even junior high school students know how to do. He also sent me his difficult-to-read program asking me to debug for him. This shows that he really does not deserve the generous marks I gave him in his last assignment.

Professors in my college are required to post the marks of each assessment within a certain period of time. Given that I have already uploaded the marks for his last assignment and the test, is it a good idea to fail his assignment by giving the marks he really deserves and also apply a penalty on the test that he cheated? This may give him a topic to continue to bother me.

clean

I would think that you would be able to correct any mistakes you made in grading.  Certainly if a student asked you to review a prior assignment grade, and it was graded too harshly, you would raise the grade. It may be appropriate to review all of the grades for that particular assignment and review it for errors (not pick his out in particular)  Is there a template or rubric you use for this assignment?  IF not, it may not be too late to make one and apply it to all. 

It is likely too late to deal with the cheating at this point as you ignored it earlier. 
"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader