Protests and police on campus

[Langue_doc]

It isn't clear if the majority of the students at Columbia or their parents who are paying their tuition support the protests. Parents who aren't very affluent probably spent years saving up for their children's education, only to find that courses have been moved online, and there's minimal learning. The faculty, according to one of the professors have been asked to modify final exams:

After students occupied the university's storied Hamilton Hall — and police officers in riot gear conducted over 100 arrests — the administration closed the campus, moved all classes online and recommended that we professors either trim or eliminate final examinations in our classes.

Outsiders seem to have taken it upon themselves to join the protests, despite the campus, a private institution, having closed the campus to facutly, students, and other employees. There are bound to be complaints from parents as well as requests that Columbia return this semester's tuition.

The only accomplishments of these protests so far have been the disruption of the costly education of their fellow students and vandalism. The war continues unabated. Protesting in front of the NY state senator's office, the Israeli embassy, and the United Nations would have been far more effective.

[Wahoo Redux]

For my part, I would be curious to know how many especially among those most vocally dismissive or sneering of these protests--have ever participated in a protest of heir own. Because I see a lot of tarring with broad brushes going on.

Dude, I grew up on the west coast in the '80s. 

I observed my fair share of protests and participated in several.  That's part of the reason I think this style of protest has turned sour.

Nevertheless, I marched against the first Gulf War because at the time it seemed like a very scary prospect.  It did not (yet) lead to World War III, but I think we've seen a whole series of atrocities on all sides in part because of it (no facile answers to what we should have done exist, BTW).

So yeah, I've seen protests. 

And for the record, I think one can be anti-occupation and anti-occupied Palestine without being antisemitic.  Israel has things to answer for and America should stop supporting her until she becomes a humane state.  Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.

However, we have been marching, screaming, occupying, and fighting police for close to a hundred years if you count the Bonus Army of 1932.  MLK prevailed because of his maturity in the face of oppression.  Now we have kids occupying their very vulnerable college campuses, resisting when given lawful commands by the police, and then crying to the media when they are arrested.  And many people have a specific kneejerk reaction, "The students were peaceful," as if that gives them the right to break the law.

We need a new cultural imagination to meet our challenges.  I don't think the old system is working any more.

FWIW, I didn't have you in mind.

Fair enough. 

I will concede that these protests have gotten a hella bunch of news.  I doubt that either Israel or Hamas care, but it certainly got the attention of the politicians.

[Wahoo Redux]

And for the record, I think one can be anti-occupation and anti-occupied Palestine without being antisemitic.  Israel has things to answer for and America should stop supporting her until she becomes a humane state.  Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.

However, we have been marching, screaming, occupying, and fighting police for close to a hundred years if you count the Bonus Army of 1932.  MLK prevailed because of his maturity in the face of oppression.  Now we have kids occupying their very vulnerable college campuses, resisting when given lawful commands by the police, and then crying to the media when they are arrested.  And many people have a specific kneejerk reaction, "The students were peaceful," as if that gives them the right to break the law.

We need a new cultural imagination to meet our challenges.  I don't think the old system is working any more.

Well said. What I think many young people don't get is that MLK modelled his actions on Gandhi, and both of them saw that their protests were only a pointer to the social change that would inevitably happen in a basically moral society. No protest had to achieve specific, short term results. The impatience of protests now requires that they have concrete, immediate outcomes, so the disruption has to escalate until they win.

"Getting out the message" has been replaced by "getting in peoples' faces until they cave."

Well, to be fair, MLK and Gandhi led disruptive movements.  I mean, the point of protest is to make people uncomfortable and to make the news.  But they were also involved in a lifelong fight against institutionalized oppression and for their own and their peoples' civil rights, and they both paid the ultimate price.  I've never thought it right to point to the "entitled" or "rich" kids as if it's their fault that their parents are wealthy or to talk about "elite" students as if it is an accusation to be accomplished enough to get into an Ivy, or any college, for that matter.  But we also have to acknowledge that the price the students are paying is pretty cheap, even if they are arrested, and their chants such as "This is what democracy looks like" are cliche, a little facile, and not the ostensible point of their protest. No matter what happens in Palestine or their college campuses, these kids are going to be fine. Then I would be careful about martyring students or professors.  It is bad optics to see cops in riot gear----they look like your typical bad guys in video games or sci fi films----but the police don't want to get hurt, and who can blame them?  I'd armor-up too.  Then I read stories from professors who have no sympathy for a late paper or a missed exam but who are then outraged by police officers upholding the law, hypothetically speaking, of course.  And being a kindly professor is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

I just don't see the analogous situation between the great era of protest in the '50s through '70s that garnered so many ethical changes in our society and the situations now.  I think we have copycat kids who, while I agree with their stance, are enacting a paradigm that is rather self-serving.   

[spork]

[. . .]

enacting a paradigm that is rather self-serving.   

in the way described by the X tweet I posted upthread.

[Wahoo Redux]

[. . .]

enacting a paradigm that is rather self-serving.   

in the way described by the X tweet I posted upthread.

Yeah, she was brutal. 

[jimbogumbo]

Whether the concept of protest works or not is not my main focus, rather the institutional response. The Big 10 campuses were all really benign protests, but the responses were dramatically different. For example, at Purdue the official response is that if they stay on the Memorial Union Lawn (they have) we'll do nothing. IU and Ohio State both for some ridiculous reason used force (and yes both featured rooftop snipers). Michigan left them alone, while Wisconsin tore down the tents (and yes, they came back anyway).


IU's faculty have called for the President to resign, but recall she canceled several previously scheduled Palestine speakers/artists for no apparent reason but currying favor with politicians. Here is a letter to the editor in the Indy Star:

https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/readers/2024/05/03/jeffrey-c-isaac-jim-banks-iu-lies-threaten-academic-freedom/73548988007/

[marshwiggle]

And for the record, I think one can be anti-occupation and anti-occupied Palestine without being antisemitic.  Israel has things to answer for and America should stop supporting her until she becomes a humane state.  Oh, and Hamas is a terrorist organization.

However, we have been marching, screaming, occupying, and fighting police for close to a hundred years if you count the Bonus Army of 1932.  MLK prevailed because of his maturity in the face of oppression.  Now we have kids occupying their very vulnerable college campuses, resisting when given lawful commands by the police, and then crying to the media when they are arrested.  And many people have a specific kneejerk reaction, "The students were peaceful," as if that gives them the right to break the law.

We need a new cultural imagination to meet our challenges.  I don't think the old system is working any more.

Well said. What I think many young people don't get is that MLK modelled his actions on Gandhi, and both of them saw that their protests were only a pointer to the social change that would inevitably happen in a basically moral society. No protest had to achieve specific, short term results. The impatience of protests now requires that they have concrete, immediate outcomes, so the disruption has to escalate until they win.

"Getting out the message" has been replaced by "getting in peoples' faces until they cave."

Well, to be fair, MLK and Gandhi led disruptive movements.  I mean, the point of protest is to make people uncomfortable and to make the news.

One other distinction is that when they broke the law, they broke the specific law they wanted to change. Modern protesters just break whatever laws they like, which is basically run-of-the-mill criminal behavior.

They are not remotely following the example of MLK and others.

But they were also involved in a lifelong fight against institutionalized oppression and for their own and their peoples' civil rights, and they both paid the ultimate price.  I've never thought it right to point to the "entitled" or "rich" kids as if it's their fault that their parents are wealthy or to talk about "elite" students as if it is an accusation to be accomplished enough to get into an Ivy, or any college, for that matter.  But we also have to acknowledge that the price the students are paying is pretty cheap, even if they are arrested, and their chants such as "This is what democracy looks like" are cliche, a little facile, and not the ostensible point of their protest. No matter what happens in Palestine or their college campuses, these kids are going to be fine. Then I would be careful about martyring students or professors.  It is bad optics to see cops in riot gear----they look like your typical bad guys in video games or sci fi films----but the police don't want to get hurt, and who can blame them?  I'd armor-up too.  Then I read stories from professors who have no sympathy for a late paper or a missed exam but who are then outraged by police officers upholding the law, hypothetically speaking, of course.  And being a kindly professor is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

I just don't see the analogous situation between the great era of protest in the '50s through '70s that garnered so many ethical changes in our society and the situations now.  I think we have copycat kids who, while I agree with their stance, are enacting a paradigm that is rather self-serving.   

Their tactics reflect their failure to follow the moral principles of those they claim to emulate.

[Langue_doc]

Maintenance workers had a firsthand view of how protesters seized the building, and wondered why the university failed to stop it.

Some paragraphs from the article:

Mariano Torres, a maintenance worker at Columbia University, was cleaning on the third floor of Hamilton Hall in his signature Yankees cap one night last week, when he heard a commotion downstairs. He said he figured it had something to do with the pro-Palestinian encampment on the lawn outside and kept working.

He was shocked, he said, when he suddenly saw five or six protesters, their faces covered by scarves or masks, picking up chairs and bringing them into the stairway.

"I'm like, what the hell is going on? Put it back. What are you doing?" he recalled.

He said he tried to block them and they tried to reason with him to get out of the way, telling him "this is bigger than you." One person, he recalled, told him he didn't get paid enough to deal with this. Someone tried to offer him "a fistful of cash."

He said he replied: "I don't want your money, dude. Just get out of the building."

It was the beginning of what would be a frightening time for Mr. Torres, who goes by Mario, and two other maintenance workers in Hamilton Hall, who were inside when pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia took over the building.

Just as upsetting as their encounters with the protesters, the three workers recounted in interviews this week, was their feeling that the university had not done enough to prevent the attack or to help them once the building was under siege.

The sole public safety officer in the lobby left when confronted by the occupiers and called for backup, several witness said. The protesters then quickly began barricading the main doors with furniture and chains. The occupiers appear to have timed their break-in with the midnight shift change, and the woman on duty was coming off her shift, the union said.

Mr. Torres, who had worked there for five years, confronted some of the protesters, trying to protect what he saw as "his building."

But as he saw the number of protesters grow to "maybe 15 or 20," he said, he realized he could not fight them. He asked to be let out, but someone said the doors downstairs were already barricaded and that he couldn't leave.

He thought of his two young sons at home. He had no idea if other buildings were being taken over, too. Fear made him "crazy," he said. He grabbed an older protester and ripped off his sweatshirt and mask, demanding to be let out.

The man said he could bring 20 people up to back him. "I was terrified," Mr. Torres said. "I did what I had to do." Mr. Torres then grabbed a nearby fire extinguisher and pulled the pin before someone persuaded him to calm down.

Mr. Wilson, 47, saw Mr. Torres facing off with protesters in the stairwell. He radioed his supervisors for help. Then he made his way down to the main doors. They were fastened shut with zip ties.

"So I begged them," Mr. Wilson said. "I said, I work here, let me out, let me out." Eventually, someone cut the zip ties and pushed him outside, he said, then secured the doors again. He found the public safety officer and told her that his co-workers were stuck inside.

[marshwiggle]

Maintenance workers had a firsthand view of how protesters seized the building, and wondered why the university failed to stop it.

Some paragraphs from the article:

Mariano Torres, a maintenance worker at Columbia University, was cleaning on the third floor of Hamilton Hall in his signature Yankees cap one night last week, when he heard a commotion downstairs. He said he figured it had something to do with the pro-Palestinian encampment on the lawn outside and kept working.

He was shocked, he said, when he suddenly saw five or six protesters, their faces covered by scarves or masks, picking up chairs and bringing them into the stairway.

"I'm like, what the hell is going on? Put it back. What are you doing?" he recalled.

He said he tried to block them and they tried to reason with him to get out of the way, telling him "this is bigger than you." One person, he recalled, told him he didn't get paid enough to deal with this. Someone tried to offer him "a fistful of cash."

He said he replied: "I don't want your money, dude. Just get out of the building."

It was the beginning of what would be a frightening time for Mr. Torres, who goes by Mario, and two other maintenance workers in Hamilton Hall, who were inside when pro-Palestinian protesters at Columbia took over the building.

Just as upsetting as their encounters with the protesters, the three workers recounted in interviews this week, was their feeling that the university had not done enough to prevent the attack or to help them once the building was under siege.

The sole public safety officer in the lobby left when confronted by the occupiers and called for backup, several witness said. The protesters then quickly began barricading the main doors with furniture and chains. The occupiers appear to have timed their break-in with the midnight shift change, and the woman on duty was coming off her shift, the union said.

Mr. Torres, who had worked there for five years, confronted some of the protesters, trying to protect what he saw as "his building."

But as he saw the number of protesters grow to "maybe 15 or 20," he said, he realized he could not fight them. He asked to be let out, but someone said the doors downstairs were already barricaded and that he couldn't leave.

He thought of his two young sons at home. He had no idea if other buildings were being taken over, too. Fear made him "crazy," he said. He grabbed an older protester and ripped off his sweatshirt and mask, demanding to be let out.

The man said he could bring 20 people up to back him. "I was terrified," Mr. Torres said. "I did what I had to do." Mr. Torres then grabbed a nearby fire extinguisher and pulled the pin before someone persuaded him to calm down.

Mr. Wilson, 47, saw Mr. Torres facing off with protesters in the stairwell. He radioed his supervisors for help. Then he made his way down to the main doors. They were fastened shut with zip ties.

"So I begged them," Mr. Wilson said. "I said, I work here, let me out, let me out." Eventually, someone cut the zip ties and pushed him outside, he said, then secured the doors again. He found the public safety officer and told her that his co-workers were stuck inside.

Wouldn't that count as forcible confinement? Ironic for the pro-Hamas protesters to resort to kidnapping to support "freedom" for people in Gaza.

[Wahoo Redux]

IHE: UC Berkeley Investigates Pro-Palestinian Dinner Protest Fracas

The Council on American-Islamic Relations shared on X a video showing Fisk coming up behind Afaneh, grabbing the phone in her hand from which she was reading the speech, putting her arm around Afaneh's shoulder and saying, "Leave, this is not your house, it is my house." Chemerinksy also says "Please leave our house." Fisk then tries to pull Afaneh's microphone out of her hands. Afaneh says UC is funding weapons manufacturers and Fisk, relinquishing the mic, says "I have nothing to do with what the UC does."

[secundem_artem]

IHE: UC Berkeley Investigates Pro-Palestinian Dinner Protest Fracas

The Council on American-Islamic Relations shared on X a video showing Fisk coming up behind Afaneh, grabbing the phone in her hand from which she was reading the speech, putting her arm around Afaneh's shoulder and saying, "Leave, this is not your house, it is my house." Chemerinksy also says "Please leave our house." Fisk then tries to pull Afaneh's microphone out of her hands. Afaneh says UC is funding weapons manufacturers and Fisk, relinquishing the mic, says "I have nothing to do with what the UC does."

So you can invade my house but I'm the one being dragged up to see what transgressions I have committed?

In a state with stand your ground laws, the response could well have involved a load of buckshot with the invader on the receiving end.  But in Berkley??????  It seems not.

Truly we are living in cloud cuckoo land.