Quote from: marshwiggle on Today at 11:51:11 AMThere don't seem to be a lot of graduates complaining that they didn't get enough "personal enrichment" out of their degrees. On the other hand, there seems to be quite a few complaining that their job prospects aren't what they expected. So there seems to be more of a mismatch between what students expected regarding employment than regarding personal enrichment.
So, either institutions need to do more "job training" or prospective students need to have a much more blunt message that their degree should not be relied on for employment prospects, but rather for personal enrichment. The problem is that administators don't want to give that message; instead, they keep pointing to statistics that everyone with a degree is better off in employment. (The unsatisfied grads would beg to differ, it seems.)
It should be appreciated that even people who went for "job training" don't seem to be complaining about a lack of personal enrichment, so that goal of PSE actually seems to
be being met.
It's "box-checking" if people, after having completed it, don't think it had any benefit.
QuoteThe question about PhD programs is how many people who completed them are dissatisfied with the resulting outcomes. That's no different than any other programs, "job training" or otherwise.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on Today at 09:16:53 AM
Maybe some Newslettering, or else starting my referee report.
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on Today at 10:19:58 AMQuote from: marshwiggle on Today at 05:22:59 AMThe issue of "job training" versus "personal enrichment" often comes down to an issue of depth versus breadth. The examples above show a lack of understanding of the importance of depth.
The most valuable "job training" will be that which takes a long period of sustained focus on developing skills and expertise that cannot be developed otherwise. The examples of "insurance" and "real estate" are specific cases where there are short courses and certification programs. They don't need a degree.
I don't know what you are saying there, buddy. Why do we need "depth?" "Depth" in what, exactly? How much depth do you need to be trained for any job not in the sciences?
QuoteYou are correct that real estate does not require a great deal of knowledge, although insurance is much more complex than most people realize----still, we could have people job ready with two solid years of schooling for virtually any corporate job. Maybe we should just have a "general business degree" instead of specialization.
QuoteWhether these specialized programs are in the same or different institutions doesn't matter; the point is that the investment is prolonged and intense. The training isn't just a box-checking exercise.
Exactly. Why both with "box checking" at all? The acquisition of knowledge is now "box checking" to some. Why bother?
QuoteQuoteThe people looking for personal enrichment will be the ones most interested in, (and potentially most likely to benefit from), lots of breadth. If their goal is personal enrichment, and they're not looking for it to be some kind of golden ticket to employment, then they should be free to choose that kind of education.
Exactly. We will have the elite institutions and a smattering of SLACs for those students who still want to check boxes on knowledge.QuoteQuestion: Is a PhD program "job training" for wannabee faculty, especially in fields where there are few places outside academia where a PhD is required? If it's not, why is there so much "adjunct porn" about PhDs without jobs, as if the PhD was assumed to have been automatically followed by solid employment?
For years the adjunct situation has flummoxed and confused you, Marshy. It has been explained numerous times. This is very strange.
As for all those wanna be academics, the PhD programs would be shut down, obviously, because there will be no need for them and we will save a lot of money----except for 2 or 3 in each discipline at the Ivies which will supply the box checking schools.
Quote from: Anselm on December 04, 2023, 10:08:08 AMI called 6 places a week ago after I got in trouble again for something I said at work. I figured that I could gain some ADA protection. This region is loaded with mental health facilities. Well, it turns out that they are for addiction, counseling and handing out pills. I would have to travel 90 miles away and wait 3 to 9 months for an appointment. I want to get tested for autism, adult ADHD and anxiety. One local office told me "we don't do the testing but afterwards you can some here to get your pills refilled". To me that encapsulates healthcare in America, just take some pills. Last June I was give Busiprone for anxiety but stopped after one week when the nausea kicked in, although the loss of appetite resulted in a loss of 10 pounds in one month, which is good for me.
Quote from: apl68 on Today at 10:10:12 AMI thought about saying something smart alecky about how I'd never seen a final exam contained in the syllabus before. Then it occurred to me that with many students the syllabus would probably be a pretty safe place to hide the answer key for the final.
Quote from: kaysixteen on Today at 06:07:10 AMRandom thoughts:
3) Humanities PhDs are indeed more or less just 'job training' for academic positions, or at least traditionally have been conceived and run as such. Of course, as has also been pointed out regularly here and in the old fora over the years, up through the 90s there was the stated (by academics, administrators, etc) *expectation* that there would in fact be academic work for those completing these degrees.
Quote from: Anselm on December 04, 2023, 07:57:56 PMQuote from: Puget on December 04, 2023, 07:03:46 PMQuote from: Anselm on December 04, 2023, 10:08:08 AMI called 6 places a week ago after I got in trouble again for something I said at work. I figured that I could gain some ADA protection. This region is loaded with mental health facilities. Well, it turns out that they are for addiction, counseling and handing out pills. I would have to travel 90 miles away and wait 3 to 9 months for an appointment. I want to get tested for autism, adult ADHD and anxiety. One local office told me "we don't do the testing but afterwards you can some here to get your pills refilled". To me that encapsulates healthcare in America, just take some pills. Last June I was give Busiprone for anxiety but stopped after one week when the nausea kicked in, although the loss of appetite resulted in a loss of 10 pounds in one month, which is good for me.
Sorry you are having trouble accessing assessment! A couple of ideas--
1. Is there a university within striking distance that has a clinical psychology PhD program? Such programs almost always have a teaching clinic, and assessment is usually a big part of what they offer, since all the students have to be trained in assessment.They may not take insurance but often have a sliding scale.
2. Many psychologists these days see Telehealth patients. Psychology Today, while not recommended as a publication, has a provider database where you can filter by specialty, insurance, etc. You can see if there are any neuropsychologists (the specialty you want for ASD and ADHD assessment) who do Telehealth and accept your insurance.
I tried option 1 at a university and that was one of the distant places with a long wait. Option 2 seems workable but I do so much better talking to people in person, face to face, which is another reason why I suspect being on the spectrum.