The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: arcturus on August 24, 2023, 06:46:36 AMI teach a Gen Ed, large enrollment, asynchronous online course. The first discussion posts this semester were encouraging. Many students acknowledged that they would have to be more responsible in an online course, since there are no physical reminders that assignments are due, etc (similar language is in my course syllabus, so it appears that many students read the syllabus!). Nonetheless, the tally is not so positive following the first "major" assignment. 15% of the students did not submit any work. 10% did not follow instructions. Thus, 3 days into the semester, 25% of the students in my class are already exhibiting behaviors that will likely lead them to a failing grade in this class. Aside from the information in the syllabus, class-wide announcements, etc I do not know how to best communicate to these students that their course grade depends on them learning the material, which requires engaging in the course work.

Well, the short answer is that "you can't care more than they do".  Sounds like you've built in scaffolding for how to succeed.  Does the grade book have the feature that you can message students who missed a deadline?    Are the assignments in the electronic calendar?  If yes, then all you can do is record what they have earned.  Online, asynchronous classes are HARD for students that don't have well-developed self-regulation skills.

Early on in a plagiarism conversation:

P: So, you cited Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions [note: not something we read in class]. Can you tell me what it's about? What's his main claim?

S: It's about scientific revolutions, and how they're structured.


Also, apparently Foucault's Archaeology of Knowledge and de Man's Allegories of Reading [note: we didn't read these either] are about fossils and palaeontology.


It's just... I'm not stupid. I might even have read some of these. At least try to get away with it.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 24, 2023, 09:46:13 AMEarly on in a plagiarism conversation:

P: So, you cited Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions [note: not something we read in class]. Can you tell me what it's about? What's his main claim?

S: It's about scientific revolutions, and how they're structured.


Also, apparently Foucault's Archaeology of Knowledge and de Man's Allegories of Reading [note: we didn't read these either] are about fossils and palaeontology.


It's just... I'm not stupid. I might even have read some of these. At least try to get away with it.

LOL!  I did read (a lot of) Foucault and deMan in grad school, but at the moment, I'd be hard pressed to say anything much more intelligent than your student did.

[I should be embarrassed to admit my lack of understanding of The Great Minds. Alas, in my defense, 20+ years of reading crappy Comp I and II papers have destroyed that part of my brain, which admittedly wasn't all that great to begin with. Be gentle:  we New Historicists need love, too.]

Students! This specific class is in-person. The specs for this course (modality, time, etc.), were published 6 months ago. Yes, I do in-fact know how to hyflex a course, but just because I am capable does not mean I am willing. No, I don't care what your other instructors are doing; they can make whatever decisions they think are best for their courses. If you want to take this required course this semester, you will take it in-person.

Quote from: AmLitHist on August 24, 2023, 02:33:00 PMAlas, in my defense, 20+ years of reading crappy Comp I and II papers have destroyed that part of my brain,

I think this is a real thing! Someone in psych should take a stab at a study.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 24, 2023, 03:45:38 PM

Quote from: AmLitHist on August 24, 2023, 02:33:00 PMAlas, in my defense, 20+ years of reading crappy Comp I and II papers have destroyed that part of my brain,

I think this is a real thing! Someone in psych should take a stab at a study.

I'm available, but I'm afraid that the the sort of massive modularity that would result in having a "Foucault area" is not consistent with current neuroscience evidence.

Quote from: Puget on August 24, 2023, 06:23:56 PM

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 24, 2023, 03:45:38 PM

Quote from: AmLitHist on August 24, 2023, 02:33:00 PMAlas, in my defense, 20+ years of reading crappy Comp I and II papers have destroyed that part of my brain,

I think this is a real thing! Someone in psych should take a stab at a study.

I'm available, but I'm afraid that the the sort of massive modularity that would result in having a "Foucault area" is not consistent with current neuroscience evidence.

That's because the "Foucault area" causes socially constructed madness (sometimes brought on by reading too much Foucault), whereas current neuroscience studies biological mental illness.


Honestly, I remember enough Foucault from grad school to know that The Archaeology of Knowledge probably doesn't have anything to do with fossils, but that's about it.

Quote from: the_geneticist on August 24, 2023, 09:38:32 AMWell, the short answer is that "you can't care more than they do".  Sounds like you've built in scaffolding for how to succeed.  Does the grade book have the feature that you can message students who missed a deadline?    Are the assignments in the electronic calendar?  If yes, then all you can do is record what they have earned.  Online, asynchronous classes are HARD for students that don't have well-developed self-regulation skills.

This works well, unless you're teaching somewhere that blames the non-tenure-track lecturer/professor when the students fail, even if they fail for reasons not under the instructor's control. Like where I work. Since I won't compromise my grading principles to make students happy, I'm hoping to retire before I get fired (it might be close).

Quote from: fosca on August 25, 2023, 11:11:20 AM

Quote from: the_geneticist on August 24, 2023, 09:38:32 AMWell, the short answer is that "you can't care more than they do".  Sounds like you've built in scaffolding for how to succeed.  Does the grade book have the feature that you can message students who missed a deadline?    Are the assignments in the electronic calendar?  If yes, then all you can do is record what they have earned.  Online, asynchronous classes are HARD for students that don't have well-developed self-regulation skills.

This works well, unless you're teaching somewhere that blames the non-tenure-track lecturer/professor when the students fail, even if they fail for reasons not under the instructor's control. Like where I work. Since I won't compromise my grading principles to make students happy, I'm hoping to retire before I get fired (it might be close).

Can you remove students who have not "attended"?  I had that ability at a previous place and it was a way to make the final numbers of "Drop, Withdrawal, Fail" look better since it didn't count against the instructor if you removed the student who signed up & didn't ever show.

Some schools* are OK with a 25-35% failure rate in their intro classes.  Maybe ask around about what would be considered a "concerning" level.

Yes, I work at one of those now.  I don't like that the reason for the high failure rates are mostly due to folks who think it's their job to "weed out" students & write dreadful exams.  I have taught [pottery 101] and I can't pass their exams.

Quote from: fosca on August 25, 2023, 11:11:20 AM

Quote from: the_geneticist on August 24, 2023, 09:38:32 AMWell, the short answer is that "you can't care more than they do".  Sounds like you've built in scaffolding for how to succeed.  Does the grade book have the feature that you can message students who missed a deadline?    Are the assignments in the electronic calendar?  If yes, then all you can do is record what they have earned.  Online, asynchronous classes are HARD for students that don't have well-developed self-regulation skills.

This works well, unless you're teaching somewhere that blames the non-tenure-track lecturer/professor AND FT tenured folks where I am when the students fail, even if they fail for reasons not under the instructor's control. Like where I work. Since I won't compromise my grading principles to make students happy, I'm hoping to retire before I get fired (it might be close).

Right there with you, Fosca. ("Tenure" is an ephemeral thing here:  the best thing ever when they dangle it to try to hire new people and then work us like dogs until we get it; afterwards, it sometimes evaporates into one of those "alternative facts" we've heard about.) I've always said they're going to have to fire me, and I'll fight it tooth and nail, if they want me gone before I decide to go, but honestly, I don't know how much fight I have left in me these days.

Quote from: Puget on August 24, 2023, 06:23:56 PM

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 24, 2023, 03:45:38 PM

Quote from: AmLitHist on August 24, 2023, 02:33:00 PMAlas, in my defense, 20+ years of reading crappy Comp I and II papers have destroyed that part of my brain,

I think this is a real thing! Someone in psych should take a stab at a study.

I'm available, but I'm afraid that the the sort of massive modularity that would result in having a "Foucault area" is not consistent with current neuroscience evidence.

How about a Foulcauldian fold, then?

Quote from: the_geneticist on August 25, 2023, 11:37:58 AMCan you remove students who have not "attended"?  I had that ability at a previous place and it was a way to make the final numbers of "Drop, Withdrawal, Fail" look better since it didn't count against the instructor if you removed the student who signed up & didn't ever show.

Some schools* are OK with a 25-35% failure rate in their intro classes.  Maybe ask around about what would be considered a "concerning" level.

Yes, I work at one of those now.  I don't like that the reason for the high failure rates are mostly due to folks who think it's their job to "weed out" students & write dreadful exams.  I have taught [pottery 101] and I can't pass their exams.

Nope.  We've asked to drop students, but the administration doesn't want to discourage tuition--er, students in the slightest. 

I've already been on probation for failing too many students who generally fail for not doing the work and/or trying to do it all on the last day (even though the mode in my classes is generally a B, even counting those Fs), so I figure the next step is getting fired.  It wasn't a problem when I worked at a community college, but I can't use the same standards at the university I teach at now, as it is considered too harsh.

I can theoretically retire in 3.5 years, if I don't mind living in near-poverty.  It might be a close thing.

A place that calls itself a "university" has lower standards than a community college?  That's sad.

Quote from: apl68 on August 26, 2023, 06:06:15 AMA place that calls itself a "university" has lower standards than a community college?  That's sad.

With the onset of the demographic cliff, more and more non-selective privates will be in this same boat.

Public university.  Not the state standard-bearer(s), but still university.  The small private schools I taught at in the past fell off this cliff long before, which is why I don't teach for them anymore.  So I try to fight the good fight without being fired.  We'll see.