The Fora: A Higher Education Community

We have so many dual-enrolled/early college students these days (a way to generate income, whether they have any hope of actually learning anything or not), I've reinstated my hard-core "no cell phone/electronics" policy. They know that all the doo-dads are required to be turned off and put away from the time they walk into class until they leave. Of course, a lot of these little 16- and 17-year-old brains think this surely can't apply to them. I routinely have to say, "Put the cell phones away" at least once in every class.

One guy--who's already flunked Comp I three times, and is headed for his fourth--has shown up in only 2 class meetings, both times alternating between intently staring at his crotch and messing with his phone (which I can clearly see under the table, as he's right in my line of sight) or sleeping. One day I called him out by name:  "Jay, turn the phone OFF and put it away, or pack your things and leave class." He hesitated a minute, finishing a text (I presume), then said, "Oh, that's OK. I'm finished."

It took all I could do to not say, "Oh thank GOD, I'm SO TERRIBLY sorry I interrupted you." 

(He hasn't been back since.  Maybe I hurt his little feelings?  I hope so.  No matter--I checked his transcript, and he's failed a full load of classes every semester for the past 4 terms, so it looks like his record will remain intact.)

Quote from: AmLitHist on February 19, 2024, 07:25:38 AMI've reinstated my hard-core "no cell phone/electronics" policy.

I had that policy, but then my school instituted two factor authentication so even to log into the CMS, I (and my students) need their phones.

Grrr.

Random comments:

1) what happeneth when/if electronics offenders disobey commands to disengage with gizmos?

2) this sort of thing is more or less a residuum of the vastly different attitudes wrt stuff like this seen in most American hss nowadays, esp when helo parents are around.   And the pandemic exacerbated these issues  tremendously.

Quote from: FishProf on February 19, 2024, 09:26:50 AM

Quote from: AmLitHist on February 19, 2024, 07:25:38 AMI've reinstated my hard-core "no cell phone/electronics" policy.

I had that policy, but then my school instituted two factor authentication so even to log into the CMS, I (and my students) need their phones.

Grrr.

Phones have gotten to be for most people what wands are for the wizards in the Harry Potter world--something they simply have to have to carry out their daily lives.  You just can't separate people from them.  We've seen this in the library environment.  When mobile phones first became common, libraries tried to make people turn them off and avoid using them whenever they were at the library so as not to be disruptive.  But we've long since reached a point where they need them to do what they've come here to do. 

I was reminded of that only this morning when I saw a patron on a library computer trying to take care of some business of some sort.  He was on the phone with a customer support person from the company he was dealing with, trying to figure out how to make their web site work.  We also routinely have to get content from people's phones into our network so that they can perform printing, photocopy, or fax work that they have to do.  Which is awkward since cell reception is spotty in much of our metal-roofed building.

The sheer number of students who use AI, get a zero, then email me to say I gave them no feedback is staggering. If you don't even know how to check anything other than the gradebook, how do you expect to trick me into believing you wrote the essay?

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 26, 2024, 12:43:51 PMThe sheer number of students who use AI, get a zero, then email me to say I gave them no feedback is staggering. If you don't even know how to check anything other than the gradebook, how do you expect to trick me into believing you wrote the essay?

When students come to office hours and say, "I don't understand what I did wrong," I make them, right then and there, open up the Canvas app on their phones, look at the marked-up documents (.pdfs), read out loud to me what I wrote in the comments on the rubric, and only after they do that, I ask if they have any more questions or would like more detailed feedback. Usually they don't, and act surprised that the feedback actually exists. Even though I show them in class how to access that information, it seems all they ever do is look at the number and start to whinge when they don't see 10/10.

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on February 26, 2024, 12:43:51 PMThe sheer number of students who use AI, get a zero, then email me to say I gave them no feedback is staggering. If you don't even know how to check anything other than the gradebook, how do you expect to trick me into believing you wrote the essay?

I've been getting a lot of "I answered A on this question and you counted it wrong, but My Friend answered A and she got it right" type questions. I have to point out that Friend is correct because her question asks about Henry, while Student's question asks about Billy. Yes, there's multiple versions of the quiz. Make sure to read the question carefully.

After three series of back-and-forth emails trying to get a student to send me her doctor's note excusing her from a major exam, I finally get sent something.

It's a Microsoft Word document.

Unsigned by the doctor.

With no dates written on it. Anywhere. No date of office visit. No dates for being excused from class.


I do not believe that this is a real doctor's note. I do not believe that any healthcare provider would be so half-$%^ about it, not sign it, and send it out to me as Microsoft Word file.

I have asked to have a new doctor's note sent to me that is both signed by the doctor and dated for both the date of the office visit and dated for the days excusing the student from class.

Is there anything else that I should be asking for?

I have colleagues who have called the doctors office directly to confirm in these kind of cases. It's not a HIPA  violation to ask if they wrote the note.

Quote from: Aster on February 29, 2024, 09:33:23 AMAfter three series of back-and-forth emails trying to get a student to send me her doctor's note excusing her from a major exam, I finally get sent something.

It's a Microsoft Word document.

Unsigned by the doctor.

With no dates written on it. Anywhere. No date of office visit. No dates for being excused from class.


I do not believe that this is a real doctor's note. I do not believe that any healthcare provider would be so half-$%^ about it, not sign it, and send it out to me as Microsoft Word file.

I have asked to have a new doctor's note sent to me that is both signed by the doctor and dated for both the date of the office visit and dated for the days excusing the student from class.

Is there anything else that I should be asking for?

You might ask the student what days they are available for a makeup exam, if that's allowed in your course policies.
If the student really was sick (doubtful), then they will be glad you gave the a break.  If the student was hoping to get out of the exam, then you are being very nice by allowing them to still take it & not earn a 0.

If the student has fabricated a medical note, you would have to decide whether or not to report them to your conduct board. 

Quote from: the_geneticist on February 29, 2024, 10:57:10 AM

Quote from: Aster on February 29, 2024, 09:33:23 AMAfter three series of back-and-forth emails trying to get a student to send me her doctor's note excusing her from a major exam, I finally get sent something.

It's a Microsoft Word document.

Unsigned by the doctor.

With no dates written on it. Anywhere. No date of office visit. No dates for being excused from class.


I do not believe that this is a real doctor's note. I do not believe that any healthcare provider would be so half-$%^ about it, not sign it, and send it out to me as Microsoft Word file.

I have asked to have a new doctor's note sent to me that is both signed by the doctor and dated for both the date of the office visit and dated for the days excusing the student from class.

Is there anything else that I should be asking for?

You might ask the student what days they are available for a makeup exam, if that's allowed in your course policies.
If the student really was sick (doubtful), then they will be glad you gave the a break.  If the student was hoping to get out of the exam, then you are being very nice by allowing them to still take it & not earn a 0.

If the student has fabricated a medical note, you would have to decide whether or not to report them to your conduct board. 

I have had students say they contracted covid right before an exam. Note, here we are not allowed to ask for any kind of proof or anything when it comes to "covid"--break a leg and we could ask for a doctor's note though. Hmmmm...

We haven't asked for doctors notes since the swine flu, back in 2009? We didn't want sick students, who should be resting and recovering, going to health service and infecting others. Plus, here (Canada) doctors notes aren't covered by provincial health care, so you have to pay out of pocket for them, and many students can't afford it. We trust our students. Now, with COVID, it's even more important to allow COVID positive students to stay home and recover, and not infect others, since COVID can potentially damage almost every body system, including the heart and brain.

The ones who are genuinely ill get time to recover and catch up. Those that lie end up doing poorly, even with extra time or deferred exams. I'd rather trust my students than have to determine if their excuse is valid or their documentation correct.

I benefited from profs who trusted me when I said I had to be in hospital during finals, and profs either let me take the exam early, late, or in one case just gave me the class average (small, fourth year class, ten students in total). So I treat students how I was treated.

Quote from: mythbuster on February 29, 2024, 10:24:25 AMI have colleagues who have called the doctors office directly to confirm in these kind of cases. It's not a HIPA  violation to ask if they wrote the note.

It turned out that the "doctor's visit" was a tele-health meeting with someone on the other side of North America. And the doctor apparently was too lazy to write a proper note.

So the student called her up again for a second tele-health session, and the doctor re-submitted a proper note.

The tele-health industry does not impress me.

Quote from: mythbuster on February 29, 2024, 10:24:25 AMI have colleagues who have called the doctors office directly to confirm in these kind of cases. It's not a HIPA  violation to ask if they wrote the note.

Why, in 2024, are people still imposing these policies? They do nothing but create more work for instructors and serve no pedagogical purpose. 

Quote from: spork on March 02, 2024, 11:51:04 PM

Quote from: mythbuster on February 29, 2024, 10:24:25 AMI have colleagues who have called the doctors office directly to confirm in these kind of cases. It's not a HIPA  violation to ask if they wrote the note.

Why, in 2024, are people still imposing these policies? They do nothing but create more work for instructors and serve no pedagogical purpose. 

Word.  Running down everything that could be a lie is just not worth my time.  If grandma died (again) I'm happy to consider that the old darlin' had a resurrection from the dead before she carked it a second time.