Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Stockmann]

They might get one 'laugh-out-loud' point, depending on my mood at the time.

Yeah, I'd totally give a small amount of partial credit. The individual student's study habits are irrelevant to the question, but making the connection that to be able to learn the material, some studying is needed isn't irrelevant - at the very least, it is relevant to learning the course content. But really, my main motivation would be the refreshing change compared to hearing about the seventh death of a student's grandma or how their dog ate their icloud or whatever.

[Parasaurolophus]

Not unrelated to my last post:

Today, two students told me the essay instructions were inaccessible (they're in a PDF). I asked for further explanation, and after some confusion one student tried accessing the file in front of me. When she clicked on it, a box popped up asking which program to use to open it. That was the stumbling block. *headdesk*

I asked whether she had a PDF reader installed. She didn't know what I meant. *headdesk*

I asked how she'd been accessing the reading up until now. She replied "the readings worked". Yeah, right. They're PDFs too, friend.

[Langue_doc]

Stu who wrote:

Quote from: Langue_doc on May 04, 2022, 12:44:30 PM
First sentence in a Freshman Comp research paper:
Quote
In [Author's] ["Short Story"], a woman named Jane is married to a man named John.

is unhappy with hu's grade and wrote a long email informing me that

but I truly felt that this was an unfair grade and that I deserved at least a B

Stu's sentences quoted in the Favorite Student Sentences thread do not demonstrate B level proficiency, alas.

[glowdart]

If I recall from some old forum discussion, some of the need to track attendance and drop/not drop people (and some of the reasons they try to game this) has to do with maintaining their student loans.

There may be something like a threshold of missed classes or days of attendance before they either forfeit the loan or have to start paying on it, or something like that.

Sorry I'm vague about it, I never dealt with it personally, but I know people were taking out loans just to live on, without attending classes at all, and the loan grantors were using attendance records to catch up with them.

M.

In addition to early reporting, we have to classify failing grades as they failed the work or they failed because they stopped coming to class. The latter impacts aid eligibility in the future and can also result in the financial aid office going after their current semester federal loans somehow.

[Caracal]

If I recall from some old forum discussion, some of the need to track attendance and drop/not drop people (and some of the reasons they try to game this) has to do with maintaining their student loans.

There may be something like a threshold of missed classes or days of attendance before they either forfeit the loan or have to start paying on it, or something like that.

Sorry I'm vague about it, I never dealt with it personally, but I know people were taking out loans just to live on, without attending classes at all, and the loan grantors were using attendance records to catch up with them.

M.

In addition to early reporting, we have to classify failing grades as they failed the work or they failed because they stopped coming to class. The latter impacts aid eligibility in the future and can also result in the financial aid office going after their current semester federal loans somehow.

I'd be curious how you classify this. In terms of failing students I basically have a couple types

1. Student never comes to class, or comes to class for the first week and then completely vanishes.

2. Student sometimes comes to class for a month, turns in some assignments, takes the first exam and then vanishes sometime after, never to be seen again.

3.Student's attendance is spotty from the beginning, they miss major assignments early, but never completely stop coming to class, they do show up for exams. Despite everything, they could have ended up with a C, but they don't turn in the last major assignment.

4. Student is doing fine-completely vanishes a week before the end of class, doesn't show up for the final, doesn't turn in last assignment despite me writing them to tell them I'll still accept it if they can turn it in.

1 and 2 are clear enough, but the variations on 3 and 4 can get complicated in terms of why the student failed.

[the_geneticist]

If I recall from some old forum discussion, some of the need to track attendance and drop/not drop people (and some of the reasons they try to game this) has to do with maintaining their student loans.

There may be something like a threshold of missed classes or days of attendance before they either forfeit the loan or have to start paying on it, or something like that.

Sorry I'm vague about it, I never dealt with it personally, but I know people were taking out loans just to live on, without attending classes at all, and the loan grantors were using attendance records to catch up with them.

M.

In addition to early reporting, we have to classify failing grades as they failed the work or they failed because they stopped coming to class. The latter impacts aid eligibility in the future and can also result in the financial aid office going after their current semester federal loans somehow.

I'd be curious how you classify this. In terms of failing students I basically have a couple types

1. Student never comes to class, or comes to class for the first week and then completely vanishes.

2. Student sometimes comes to class for a month, turns in some assignments, takes the first exam and then vanishes sometime after, never to be seen again.

3.Student's attendance is spotty from the beginning, they miss major assignments early, but never completely stop coming to class, they do show up for exams. Despite everything, they could have ended up with a C, but they don't turn in the last major assignment.

4. Student is doing fine-completely vanishes a week before the end of class, doesn't show up for the final, doesn't turn in last assignment despite me writing them to tell them I'll still accept it if they can turn it in.

1 and 2 are clear enough, but the variations on 3 and 4 can get complicated in terms of why the student failed.

They key is that financial aid will not pay if the student did not attend class.

3. Reads to me like the student failed due to poor performance.  Attendance was a concern, but you can show that they were in class AND that what they turned in wasn't sufficient to pass.
4. Sounds like you need to contact their advisor due to a concern about a major life crisis.  That's when you invoke the "medical hardship" or similar policy and financial aid should not be affected.

[Puget]

4. Sounds like you need to contact their advisor due to a concern about a major life crisis.  That's when you invoke the "medical hardship" or similar policy and financial aid should not be affected.

Yes, this would be a case where I'd contact the advisor, and if they couldn't get a response from the student either the care team would be alerted to track them down and make sure they are OK. Almost always in these situations where a student has been doing fine up to  the end then disappears something major is going on, usually a mental health crisis. An excused incomplete is usually appropriate in those cases to give the student time to address the issue and hopefully successfully complete the final exam/project.

[the_geneticist]

And the CMS is down.  What are the students supposed to being doing today?  A data analysis lab.  Where is said data and links to all needed online tools?  On the CMS.
Bang! Bang! Bang!

[apl68]

If I recall from some old forum discussion, some of the need to track attendance and drop/not drop people (and some of the reasons they try to game this) has to do with maintaining their student loans.

There may be something like a threshold of missed classes or days of attendance before they either forfeit the loan or have to start paying on it, or something like that.

Sorry I'm vague about it, I never dealt with it personally, but I know people were taking out loans just to live on, without attending classes at all, and the loan grantors were using attendance records to catch up with them.

M.

In addition to early reporting, we have to classify failing grades as they failed the work or they failed because they stopped coming to class. The latter impacts aid eligibility in the future and can also result in the financial aid office going after their current semester federal loans somehow.

I'd be curious how you classify this. In terms of failing students I basically have a couple types

1. Student never comes to class, or comes to class for the first week and then completely vanishes.

2. Student sometimes comes to class for a month, turns in some assignments, takes the first exam and then vanishes sometime after, never to be seen again.

3.Student's attendance is spotty from the beginning, they miss major assignments early, but never completely stop coming to class, they do show up for exams. Despite everything, they could have ended up with a C, but they don't turn in the last major assignment.

4. Student is doing fine-completely vanishes a week before the end of class, doesn't show up for the final, doesn't turn in last assignment despite me writing them to tell them I'll still accept it if they can turn it in.

1 and 2 are clear enough, but the variations on 3 and 4 can get complicated in terms of why the student failed.

All of these things--students who just don't show up for most of the term, students who flunk, and students who derailed by sudden life crises--seem so much more common now than at either the SLAC where I was an undergrad or the R1 where I was a grad and TA.  Of course I know COVID has created a spike in every kind of problem under the sun, but people here were already complaining about an awful lot of this sort of thing pre-COVID.  Are they so much more common than in the 1980s and 1990s, or did I just attend schools where there wasn't so much of it?  I must admit to having no experience of attending a public college as anything other than a part-time distance-ed student in a professional program.

[mamselle]

Students (and others with anxiety/family crisis/mental health issues) didn't used to self-identify out of fear of derision or loss of face.

In fact, as I recall from what might be the same time period, being raised in a midwest state that was in some places slow on the uptake with acknowledging difference overall, it wasn't something you did until maybe the early-to-mid 70s.

I recall the difference between my own response to being invited to play for a benefit concert for an abused women's shelter in 1975--I played for it but wondered at the necessity--and, in a different state, five years later, finding it essential to make use of such a shelter myself.

My 'other-state,' earlier self would have never admitted the need.

My 'new-state,' later self was very glad it could be met.

So there may have been some regional, time- and culturally-related changes that have made things more visible, as well.

In many ways, the transparency and willingness to admit need is probably more healthy, even if it can on occasion be abused, or appear to be abused; more lives are probably saved and made better by the admission of need and its assuagement than before.

M.

[glowdart]

If I recall from some old forum discussion, some of the need to track attendance and drop/not drop people (and some of the reasons they try to game this) has to do with maintaining their student loans.

There may be something like a threshold of missed classes or days of attendance before they either forfeit the loan or have to start paying on it, or something like that.

Sorry I'm vague about it, I never dealt with it personally, but I know people were taking out loans just to live on, without attending classes at all, and the loan grantors were using attendance records to catch up with them.

M.

In addition to early reporting, we have to classify failing grades as they failed the work or they failed because they stopped coming to class. The latter impacts aid eligibility in the future and can also result in the financial aid office going after their current semester federal loans somehow.

I'd be curious how you classify this. In terms of failing students I basically have a couple types

1. Student never comes to class, or comes to class for the first week and then completely vanishes.

2. Student sometimes comes to class for a month, turns in some assignments, takes the first exam and then vanishes sometime after, never to be seen again.

3.Student's attendance is spotty from the beginning, they miss major assignments early, but never completely stop coming to class, they do show up for exams. Despite everything, they could have ended up with a C, but they don't turn in the last major assignment.

4. Student is doing fine-completely vanishes a week before the end of class, doesn't show up for the final, doesn't turn in last assignment despite me writing them to tell them I'll still accept it if they can turn it in.

1 and 2 are clear enough, but the variations on 3 and 4 can get complicated in terms of why the student failed.

They key is that financial aid will not pay if the student did not attend class.

3. Reads to me like the student failed due to poor performance.  Attendance was a concern, but you can show that they were in class AND that what they turned in wasn't sufficient to pass.
4. Sounds like you need to contact their advisor due to a concern about a major life crisis.  That's when you invoke the "medical hardship" or similar policy and financial aid should not be affected.

Yes - we have a date of last attendance note to fill out, but occasionally the financial aid office calls to clarify which of the above it is — 4 wouldn't be an issue, and 3 wouldn't if they were making a lousy effort & had attendance problems.

[OneMoreYear]

Ugh. I'm grading a scaffolding assignment for a research project assignment over this long weekend, and it's making me wish I could just use multiple choice tests and be done with it.

[teach_write_research]

Ugh. I'm grading a scaffolding assignment for a research project assignment over this long weekend, and it's making me wish I could just use multiple choice tests and be done with it.

I'm starting my planning for next year and strategizing for what final work I can grade in the time we will have. Sanity says multiple choice tests but I'll be teaching project-focused courses that are usually papers or presentations. Oh man. I welcome any survival strategies.

[the_geneticist]

Ugh. I'm grading a scaffolding assignment for a research project assignment over this long weekend, and it's making me wish I could just use multiple choice tests and be done with it.

I'm starting my planning for next year and strategizing for what final work I can grade in the time we will have. Sanity says multiple choice tests but I'll be teaching project-focused courses that are usually papers or presentations. Oh man. I welcome any survival strategies.

Build in lots of checkpoints and scaffolding so that it's easy to guide students towards success on the final product.  The only surprise will be if a student/team dramatically improves from the penultimate check.

[mamselle]

But make the scaffold steps as simple to grade as as well-integrated as possible.

I inherited a horribly bad scaffold system once, when hired to take over a class whose instructor of note had been ordered to full bedrst with serious mono.

I was already teaching 4 classes (2 were smaller sections of the same class, one in the night school program) and was not going to grade 50 more submissions every 2 weeks, thankyouverymuch.

I had to re-group things, drop a couple grade-point assignments to pass/fail, and re-jigger the final total points required to keep my sanity.

So, don't go crazy with scaffolding, some students just blew it off because they'd seen how small the point-stakes were, and were already behind, just 2 weeks into the semester.

M.