Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[Aster]

I recommend that if you set an online submission deadline, that you set it at a time when you will be available to check your LMS right before the deadline timer ticks down.

Being available at these times means that you can field any *appropriate* help messages from students before the assignment is due. This greatly reduces the pressure on you to grant extensions. You can also often see and troubleshoot more technical problems better in an assessment that's still active and running vs. one that's completed and shut down.

[apl68]

This is starting to convince me that I should make my deadlines at some point in the afternoon, at least as an experiment. Actually, the best time for me would be about 8AM. I wonder how that would work for the students.

I routinely use 8 AM deadlines for major projects, including final projects, and have even been known to have 8 AM Monday deadlines. I will set the dropbox to have the due date/time at 8 AM on Monday, and the actual closure of the dropbox, when work can no longer be uploaded, at 12 noon that same day for late work (with a penalty). I rarely have panicked emails or last-minute questions since I started doing this and the majority of the work is turned in by the previous Friday - guess they don't want to work over the weekend.

Sounds like you've taught them a useful lesson in the value of planning right there!

[the_geneticist]

I took over a class last-minute over the summer that had 11:59pm SUNDAY deadlines.  (WHY???).
It was awful.  So. Many. Emails.
I make a rule to have all deadlines during "normal business hours M-F".  I'm not going to answer emails after 5:00pm and I'm certainly not staying up until midnight just in case a student has a panicking last minute question.

[Caracal]

I recommend that if you set an online submission deadline, that you set it at a time when you will be available to check your LMS right before the deadline timer ticks down.

Being available at these times means that you can field any *appropriate* help messages from students before the assignment is due. This greatly reduces the pressure on you to grant extensions. You can also often see and troubleshoot more technical problems better in an assessment that's still active and running vs. one that's completed and shut down.

I get the logic, but I only want to do that if it isn't going to result in more problems for me and the students. Most of my students work and have a lot of stuff going on, so I often try to have things due at the end of the weekend rather than the beginning to give them more flexibility. Some students have told me that having a few extra hours to finish something up after they put their kids to bed on Sunday night, or after work can be a big help. However, if I have class on Monday afternoon, I don't want to make something due at 10 am on Monday, because then everyone is trying to finish the assignment at the last minute, nobody does the reading for class and we have a lousy discussion.

I usually just rely on students who finish early as an alert system in case I've screwed up something with the submission, but I also just don't really care about giving extensions. I always tell the whole class that I'm fine with granting extensions, so it doesn't really matter to me if someone claims that they had an issue submitting. You don't have to lie to me to get a 12 hour extension, so if you want to, that's your business.

[marshwiggle]

I get the logic, but I only want to do that if it isn't going to result in more problems for me and the students. Most of my students work and have a lot of stuff going on, so I often try to have things due at the end of the weekend rather than the beginning to give them more flexibility. Some students have told me that having a few extra hours to finish something up after they put their kids to bed on Sunday night, or after work can be a big help. However, if I have class on Monday afternoon, I don't want to make something due at 10 am on Monday, because then everyone is trying to finish the assignment at the last minute, nobody does the reading for class and we have a lousy discussion.

Sort of related to this; when I used to give exams, I didn't hold office hours the day before the exam. (I was readily available before that.) The only people who show up the day before the exam are the ones who have blown things off all term, and now want you to teach them the whole course in an hour. ( A few good students may have minor questions, but they'll be fine anyway.)

[the_geneticist]

I recommend that if you set an online submission deadline, that you set it at a time when you will be available to check your LMS right before the deadline timer ticks down.

Being available at these times means that you can field any *appropriate* help messages from students before the assignment is due. This greatly reduces the pressure on you to grant extensions. You can also often see and troubleshoot more technical problems better in an assessment that's still active and running vs. one that's completed and shut down.

I get the logic, but I only want to do that if it isn't going to result in more problems for me and the students. Most of my students work and have a lot of stuff going on, so I often try to have things due at the end of the weekend rather than the beginning to give them more flexibility. Some students have told me that having a few extra hours to finish something up after they put their kids to bed on Sunday night, or after work can be a big help. However, if I have class on Monday afternoon, I don't want to make something due at 10 am on Monday, because then everyone is trying to finish the assignment at the last minute, nobody does the reading for class and we have a lousy discussion.

I usually just rely on students who finish early as an alert system in case I've screwed up something with the submission, but I also just don't really care about giving extensions. I always tell the whole class that I'm fine with granting extensions, so it doesn't really matter to me if someone claims that they had an issue submitting. You don't have to lie to me to get a 12 hour extension, so if you want to, that's your business.

For your students, that sounds like a very reasonable way to set the deadlines.  Mine are mostly traditional age, full-time students without kids.
If I tried an 11:59pm Sunday deadline with my students, I'd get a TON of panicked emails at 11:45pm on Sunday from students who had just opened the assignment and realized they couldn't finish in 15 minutes.  The first two weeks would be really rough, but I suppose they'd get it figured out.

[Hegemony]

My deadlines are 10 pm on Sunday. I don't mind answering emails on Sunday, but 10 pm means neither I nor they have to stay up till midnight.

[rhetoricae]

My fully-online courses use 11:59pm on Sunday as the standard due date; new stuff opens up every Monday. Students have the full assignment schedule from day one. I definitely do not stay up until after midnight waiting for student emails. 

A lot of the "last-minute panic" emails go away after a bit, especially since I have the following (very clear) policies: there is a 3-day "grace period" so even if the LMS marks your submission late, you don't receive a penalty; I do not check email or course messages between 8p-7a [this is actually a much more recent policy, as going fully online meant I needed stronger boundaries around time]; I will answer your message in 24-48 hours; college is for figuring out your own time-management and professional communication skills, it's ok to mess up a few times, learning from your mistakes is part of being a grown-up.

I find that if you set the policy, communicate it clearly, and then stick to it you don't end up with a huge amount of panicky emails, upset students, etc. The deadlines are always the same so there's not a question about when things are due. Students can plan around their lives/jobs/whatever. It all works itself out.  (I teach at a CC and we are roughly 30% online courses in non-pandemic times.)

[downer]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

In response to an assignment to discuss the value of literature, a student gives as their example the lyrics from a One Direction song. In apparent sincerity.

And this is one of the better students in the class.

[marshwiggle]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

In response to an assignment to discuss the value of literature, a student gives as their example the lyrics from a One Direction song. In apparent sincerity.

And this is one of the better students in the class.

Well, some institutions (perhaps not yours) have played into this by "diversifying" their definitions of literature to include movies, popular music, etc. Especially modern, urban, etc.

[downer]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

In response to an assignment to discuss the value of literature, a student gives as their example the lyrics from a One Direction song. In apparent sincerity.

And this is one of the better students in the class.

Well, some institutions (perhaps not yours) have played into this by "diversifying" their definitions of literature to include movies, popular music, etc. Especially modern, urban, etc.

I'm fine with including movies, pop music, and whatever. There are many great works in there. I'm not happy with someone who thinks that the lyrics of One Direction have any literary value.

[marshwiggle]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

In response to an assignment to discuss the value of literature, a student gives as their example the lyrics from a One Direction song. In apparent sincerity.

And this is one of the better students in the class.

Well, some institutions (perhaps not yours) have played into this by "diversifying" their definitions of literature to include movies, popular music, etc. Especially modern, urban, etc.

I'm fine with including movies, pop music, and whatever. There are many great works in there. I'm not happy with someone who thinks that the lyrics of One Direction have any literary value.

Would lyrics by Kendrick Lamar?

[apl68]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

Having hired several recent high school graduates who failed spectacularly in the work place, I wonder the same thing.

[EdnaMode]

We're having a practical exam in lab today. The instructions say [do technical thing] to ALL the [parts]. And it is in all caps, bolded, and underlined on the instructions. Stu raises his hand, I walk over to his table, and he asks "When the instructions say to do [thing] to all the parts. Does that mean this one too?" and he points to a part. I replied "All means all."

**sigh** I think we've reached the point of the semester when even the good students (and faculty too) are having a hard time getting multiple brain cells to work in unison.

[polly_mer]

I do wonder what students learn in high school, or indeed any courses.

Having hired several recent high school graduates who failed spectacularly in the work place, I wonder the same thing.

That indicates being in a bad K-12 system or at a college where the admissions filters are more "will you figure out how to pay tuition and get us money in a timely manner" and less "we need to limit ourselves to only N students, so let's be sure we get the students we need for the orchestra and be on the lookout for more of the majors we're trying to grow".

Bob Dylan won the Nobel Prize in literature for his songs.  How many professors back in the 1960s would have rolled their eyes and sighed about a paper with Dylan lyrics?