Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[marshwiggle]

I just wonder why the student whose total grade before the final is 4% bothers to submit the final. That work was an F too.

I had one like that, too.  He went into the final with a 36% average, but took it anyway. He did osss the final,  tu it wasn't nearly enough.

Likewise. And I had told her, with advisor cc'ed, that there was no mathematical way for her to pass. A lot of magical thinking going on there. . .

Question: Has anyone who has students' cumulative grades (as opposed to average grades) displayed had this problem? The math is much more obvious that way. ("Right now you have 17/100. The final is worth 20/100, so the maximum you can get is 37/100; i.e. an F.")

[kiana]

I just wonder why the student whose total grade before the final is 4% bothers to submit the final. That work was an F too.

I had one like that, too.  He went into the final with a 36% average, but took it anyway. He did osss the final,  tu it wasn't nearly enough.

Likewise. And I had told her, with advisor cc'ed, that there was no mathematical way for her to pass. A lot of magical thinking going on there. . .

Last day of attendance for financial aid?

[FishProf]

Question: Has anyone who has students' cumulative grades (as opposed to average grades) displayed had this problem? The math is much more obvious that way. ("Right now you have 17/100. The final is worth 20/100, so the maximum you can get is 37/100; i.e. an F.")

While it helps, I have still had students hoping they could get 450/200 on a final to just barely pass.

[OneMoreYear]

I just wonder why the student whose total grade before the final is 4% bothers to submit the final. That work was an F too.

I had one like that, too.  He went into the final with a 36% average, but took it anyway. He did osss the final,  tu it wasn't nearly enough.

Likewise. And I had told her, with advisor cc'ed, that there was no mathematical way for her to pass. A lot of magical thinking going on there. . .

Last day of attendance for financial aid?

That was my guess too. I had at least one student per year when I taught intro classes at as a graduate student who would attend the 1st class (I assume to get the syllabus) and the final exam for financial aid attendance purposes.

I remember I was TAing a large intro class, and we had one student who appeared to be using this strategy as they had not taken any of the 1st 3 tests (class was graded on 4 exams, 25% each). The student showed up for the final, bubbled in the scantron ABCD all the way down, and walked out after 5 minutes. The professor of the course had a policy that no one could enter the exam after someone had left (as an attempt at an anti-cheating measure).  Four students showed up about 10 minutes late, citing a city bus delay.  We, of course, followed our syllabus policy and refused to let them take the exam. :) [/i] 

No, of course we let them take the exam. But one of them appeared to be in full panic mode as they (highly observant student) saw that an exam had already been turned in.

[Puget]

I just wonder why the student whose total grade before the final is 4% bothers to submit the final. That work was an F too.

I had one like that, too.  He went into the final with a 36% average, but took it anyway. He did osss the final,  tu it wasn't nearly enough.

Likewise. And I had told her, with advisor cc'ed, that there was no mathematical way for her to pass. A lot of magical thinking going on there. . .

Last day of attendance for financial aid?

In this case, no-- Stu after not responding to any of my or advisors messages all semester had sent a long wall of text email that morning  with a tale of mental health woe (which I don't doubt) asking to make up the entire semester of work now. As gently as possible I informed her that wasn't possible and cc'ed her advisor for the two of them to discuss a retroactive medical leave (since she was indeed absent all semester, at least in my class). She either didn't read that email, or didn't believe me, and took the exam anyway (and failed it of course). I feel bad for her, but she needs to get it through her head that she can't get credit for a course she didn't actually take.

[downer]

For my student, I need to work out whether to give him a F grade or a withdraw/fail grade. Since according to university regs he seems to qualify for withdraw/fail, I will probably do that.

[polly_mer]

For my student, I need to work out whether to give him a F grade or a withdraw/fail grade. Since according to university regs he seems to qualify for withdraw/fail, I will probably do that.

How would someone who has taken the whole course earn a W/F?  I'm accustomed to that being the grade recorded about midterms or the last financial aid check date for someone has missed enough consecutive assignments with no contact.  I'm accustomed to students being awarded that grade well before finals to prevent the financial aid shenanigans with only appearing for first meeting and the final exam.

Someone who made it to the end, but only had a 4% gets an F.

[Diogenes]

I teach a sophomore majors course at a CC of which part of the curriculum is college success. So I give every student 5 points to NOT grade grovel. That's less than any assignment and it's more of a tongue-in-cheek way to have a talking point about taking initiative and ownership of your own success. There are also other ways I give students freebies and passes to account for life getting in the way of the occasional assignment.

It's finally happened. And it hit every mark.

Stu: "I know that you hate when people do this and that the 5 extra credit points might be lost but I had to ask...I'm not looking for a hand out I'm willing to work for it but I'm on academic probation and a lot rides on me passing this class I'm normally too prideful to ask for help but my academic future is kind of on the line so I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to pass?"

[Caracal]

I teach a sophomore majors course at a CC of which part of the curriculum is college success. So I give every student 5 points to NOT grade grovel. That's less than any assignment and it's more of a tongue-in-cheek way to have a talking point about taking initiative and ownership of your own success. There are also other ways I give students freebies and passes to account for life getting in the way of the occasional assignment.

It's finally happened. And it hit every mark.

Stu: "I know that you hate when people do this and that the 5 extra credit points might be lost but I had to ask...I'm not looking for a hand out I'm willing to work for it but I'm on academic probation and a lot rides on me passing this class I'm normally too prideful to ask for help but my academic future is kind of on the line so I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to pass?"

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

[kiana]

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

Rarely, but when it worked for them in high school, they haven't really internalized that the rules are different.

[apl68]

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

Rarely, but when it worked for them in high school, they haven't really internalized that the rules are different.

Parents who have guarded them against failure and consequences probably have something to do with it too.

[the_geneticist]

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

Rarely, but when it worked for them in high school, they haven't really internalized that the rules are different.

Parents who have guarded them against failure and consequences probably have something to do with it too.

The triumph of hope over logic or reason?
The mindset of "it never hurts to ask"?

[OneMoreYear]

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

Rarely, but when it worked for them in high school, they haven't really internalized that the rules are different.

I've definitely seen the giving out of extra credit at the end of the semester due to student requests. In a few cases, it was due to administrative pressure (luckily rarely).  In one place I worked, a colleague had an optional extra credit assignment on the syllabus that was worth 20% of the course points. So, if the student had a final grade of 65% (D), if they earned 80% on the extra credit assignment, they'd end up with a B (81%) in the course. So, maybe students have taken classes with my previous colleague. That syllabus had departmental approval, so I guess no one was concerned about this. But, having the extra credit specified on the syllabus, I realize is a different issue than creating a new assignment at the end of the semester.

[Biologist_]

For my student, I need to work out whether to give him a F grade or a withdraw/fail grade. Since according to university regs he seems to qualify for withdraw/fail, I will probably do that.

How would someone who has taken the whole course earn a W/F?  I'm accustomed to that being the grade recorded about midterms or the last financial aid check date for someone has missed enough consecutive assignments with no contact.  I'm accustomed to students being awarded that grade well before finals to prevent the financial aid shenanigans with only appearing for first meeting and the final exam.

Someone who made it to the end, but only had a 4% gets an F.

It sounds like the student may have missed a large proportion of the class sessions on the way to the 4% grade. Perhaps the student hadn't shown up for many weeks before taking the final exam?

[Chemystery]

Do you think there are instructors who actually give extra credit in response to that kind of thing? In general I'm pretty flexible and am willing to help students over the line when they've been in touch with me or are having some problem right at the end of class, but I'm never going to just give out some random extra credit assignment to keep someone from failing. Its one of those cases where my moral incentives align very well with the practical ones-I don't want to create and grade something extra from a bad student on top of my mountain of grading.

Rarely, but when it worked for them in high school, they haven't really internalized that the rules are different.

This is probably a big part of it.  I had a high school student taking my class last year who, after the grades were reported, claimed to be shocked that she only got an A-.  If she had known,the parent who was using her email account she assured me, she would have asked me for an extra assignment to bring her grade up.  This took me by surprise because the way it was stated made it apparent that the student didn't even consider it possible that I would not have created more work for myself her so that she could avoid the shame of earning an A- in a college chemistry course during her junior year of high school.

This semester my sophomores are attempting to guilt me into raising their grades.  Our class ended up being online due to COVID.  That means they can't ask questions when they watch my lecture videos (and apparently cannot email them to me or ask them in our multiple live Zoom sessions each week) and I can't see their face to know they're confused (see above re: not being able to tell me this, also I COULD see your faces in our Zoom sessions if you would turn your cameras on).  The list goes on and on about all the things they are doing right and that I am being too hard-nosed about. They do not like my insistence that the grades I record are tied to proficiency, not effort, nor their worldview that a good student cannot earn an A- (or worse, a B), in organic chemistry.