Topic: Bang Your Head on Your Desk - the thread of teaching despair!

[kiana]

We have a similar policy. I also like it because it makes my life easier. We also had a similar policy regarding late-term withdrawals, when our automatic-W date was mid-semester (it is now on the last date that classes meet). However, there are occassions where I think it is appropriate to consider the last date the student was engaged in the course, rather than the date of the requested incomplete/withdrawal. In some circumstances (often associated with mental health), the student does not know that they need to file for the incomplete until they are in deep trouble. If a student has been doing well, but then suffers a crisis, I do not penalize them for waiting a few weeks to ask for help.

Agree. I have also signed off on them where a student had a mid-semester crisis, has been back and catching up, but not quite made it.

[Puget]

We have a similar policy. I also like it because it makes my life easier. We also had a similar policy regarding late-term withdrawals, when our automatic-W date was mid-semester (it is now on the last date that classes meet). However, there are occassions where I think it is appropriate to consider the last date the student was engaged in the course, rather than the date of the requested incomplete/withdrawal. In some circumstances (often associated with mental health), the student does not know that they need to file for the incomplete until they are in deep trouble. If a student has been doing well, but then suffers a crisis, I do not penalize them for waiting a few weeks to ask for help.

Agree. I have also signed off on them where a student had a mid-semester crisis, has been back and catching up, but not quite made it.

We switched to a new system this year with no W-- they can simply drop up to early November and it's like the class never existed. I think this is more humane-- noting getting credits for the class is punishment enough without permanently branding their transcript.

After that, they can't just drop, but there are ways to make classes go away in a crisis (often of the mental health variety) situation -- they can apply to take a medical underload, or withdraw from the semester entirely, right up until grades are due, and those classes can vanish. Luckily faculty don't have to make any decisions about that-- staff academic advisors and the dean of students office take care of that.

[aside]

Student ghosted on me about five weeks ago. He was failing anyway because he had not turned in any work for most of the semester.

He emailed me last night, asking for an Incomplete. The final was this morning.

Course eval window closed already and half of the administrators have already scrammed for the semester (well, they will still meet you via Zoom & check email, ha ha).

I think I'm just going to ignore him, after sending a one word reply consisting of my favorite word at this time of the semester. That favorite word is "no."

My university's policy is that an incomplete can be assigned only if the student would be passing the course at the moment the incomplete was requested and legitimate reasons for the incomplete were documented.  I like this policy.  A lot.  It does not prevent the failing student from asking, yet all I have to do is refer to university policy.

We have a similar policy. I also like it because it makes my life easier. We also had a similar policy regarding late-term withdrawals, when our automatic-W date was mid-semester (it is now on the last date that classes meet). However, there are occassions where I think it is appropriate to consider the last date the student was engaged in the course, rather than the date of the requested incomplete/withdrawal. In some circumstances (often associated with mental health), the student does not know that they need to file for the incomplete until they are in deep trouble. If a student has been doing well, but then suffers a crisis, I do not penalize them for waiting a few weeks to ask for help.

Same here.  Our policy allows retroactive withdrawals or incomplete requests, but the bar is very high for approval of these and the decision does not rest entirely with me.

[cathwen]

At my university, Incomplete is not an option for undergrads.   Not allowing incompletes means no sob stories about why I should accept and grade a mound of back work during my vacation time. 

If a student misses the final, I can give a grade that means "all but final exam," and there is a date established by the university by which it must be made up. 

[Caracal]

Weird! Faculty here would throw an absolute fit if anyone tried to tell them how to set up their LMS sites. A shell gets created for each class, but we're completely free to edit it. Certainly no one would think of creating submission portals for us!

To be honest, it's really, really nice not to have to keep track of who's got an extension and who needs which late penalties applied and who needs to be reminded that they missed a deadline and who needs help switching from the Tuesday to the Friday seminar section. I'm perfectly happy giving up a little bit of power in exchange for someone else dealing with the hassle and by the time our students are in their fourth year the consistency in policies means that they're quite well trained about things like applying for extensions and procedures for summer re-sits.

Whoa, you don't determine your own extension and late policies?

No. Students apply to the program coordinator for extensions, and late policies are uniform across the college. It's glorious. No whining! No begging! No arguing! No dead grandmothers! (Well, maybe dead grandmothers, but if so it's the program coordinator who killed 'em, not me.)

Huh. I can see the benefits, but I'm the one who is running the class and grading work. I wouldn't  like having someone else deciding things like extensions and late penalties. I design course polices to make my classes run smoothly for me. A bunch of centralized rules would make my life more of a pain...

[Caracal]

We have a similar policy. I also like it because it makes my life easier. We also had a similar policy regarding late-term withdrawals, when our automatic-W date was mid-semester (it is now on the last date that classes meet). However, there are occassions where I think it is appropriate to consider the last date the student was engaged in the course, rather than the date of the requested incomplete/withdrawal. In some circumstances (often associated with mental health), the student does not know that they need to file for the incomplete until they are in deep trouble. If a student has been doing well, but then suffers a crisis, I do not penalize them for waiting a few weeks to ask for help.

Agree. I have also signed off on them where a student had a mid-semester crisis, has been back and catching up, but not quite made it.

We switched to a new system this year with no W-- they can simply drop up to early November and it's like the class never existed. I think this is more humane-- noting getting credits for the class is punishment enough without permanently branding their transcript.

After that, they can't just drop, but there are ways to make classes go away in a crisis (often of the mental health variety) situation -- they can apply to take a medical underload, or withdraw from the semester entirely, right up until grades are due, and those classes can vanish. Luckily faculty don't have to make any decisions about that-- staff academic advisors and the dean of students office take care of that.

I like the idea of the option for a late withdrawal, but I think it would work better as complementary to an incomplete, rather than a replacement for it. I've had students who were getting As, and then had sudden medical or family crises right at the end of the semester and weren't able to take the final, or turn in their paper. In those sorts of circumstances, the student should be able to get credit for the course if they can turn in the work.

[Puget]

We have a similar policy. I also like it because it makes my life easier. We also had a similar policy regarding late-term withdrawals, when our automatic-W date was mid-semester (it is now on the last date that classes meet). However, there are occassions where I think it is appropriate to consider the last date the student was engaged in the course, rather than the date of the requested incomplete/withdrawal. In some circumstances (often associated with mental health), the student does not know that they need to file for the incomplete until they are in deep trouble. If a student has been doing well, but then suffers a crisis, I do not penalize them for waiting a few weeks to ask for help.

Agree. I have also signed off on them where a student had a mid-semester crisis, has been back and catching up, but not quite made it.

We switched to a new system this year with no W-- they can simply drop up to early November and it's like the class never existed. I think this is more humane-- noting getting credits for the class is punishment enough without permanently branding their transcript.

After that, they can't just drop, but there are ways to make classes go away in a crisis (often of the mental health variety) situation -- they can apply to take a medical underload, or withdraw from the semester entirely, right up until grades are due, and those classes can vanish. Luckily faculty don't have to make any decisions about that-- staff academic advisors and the dean of students office take care of that.

I like the idea of the option for a late withdrawal, but I think it would work better as complementary to an incomplete, rather than a replacement for it. I've had students who were getting As, and then had sudden medical or family crises right at the end of the semester and weren't able to take the final, or turn in their paper. In those sorts of circumstances, the student should be able to get credit for the course if they can turn in the work.

Oh, we do still have incompletes as well, but they have to be passing and just missing a final exam or final assignment to get one. I tell students an incomplete is not a time machine.

[ergative]

No, a priming effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between unprimed and primed trials.

No, a simon effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between congruent and incongruent trials.

No, a switch cost is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between switch trials and no-switch trials.

No, a semantic interference effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between semantically related and unrelated trials.

Are you sensing a trend, students? Because I am. I've done everything I possibly can to make this clear, but of course if you don't come to seminar or lecture then you're not actually going to learn that NOT EVERYTHING IS FUCKING REACTION TIME. I used to give praise sandwiches when marking experiment proposals, but I'm not doing that anymore. If my comment that you don't understand your dependent variable leaves you feeling bad, then GOOD. It SHOULD leave you feeling bad, because you have shown that you have not learned the material.

(And if this rant is too specific and reveals my specific subdiscipline, I don't care anymore. If you recognize enough of the terms in this rant to identify my specific subdiscipline, then you will sympathize all the more with my frustration.)

[FishProf]

Ugh, I feel you.

No, student, your experimental hypothesis is NOT just the opposite of the Null Hypothesis for your statistical test (If I had a time machine, I would go back and make sure the stats folks used a different term).

No, your hypothesis isn't an if-then statement. (If you didn't get this over the course of the semester, I should just fail you and make you take the course again).

[Puget]

No, a priming effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between unprimed and primed trials.

No, a simon effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between congruent and incongruent trials.

No, a switch cost is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between switch trials and no-switch trials.

No, a semantic interference effect is not the same as reaction time. It's the DIFFERENCE in reaction time between semantically related and unrelated trials.

Are you sensing a trend, students? Because I am. I've done everything I possibly can to make this clear, but of course if you don't come to seminar or lecture then you're not actually going to learn that NOT EVERYTHING IS FUCKING REACTION TIME. I used to give praise sandwiches when marking experiment proposals, but I'm not doing that anymore. If my comment that you don't understand your dependent variable leaves you feeling bad, then GOOD. It SHOULD leave you feeling bad, because you have shown that you have not learned the material.

(And if this rant is too specific and reveals my specific subdiscipline, I don't care anymore. If you recognize enough of the terms in this rant to identify my specific subdiscipline, then you will sympathize all the more with my frustration.)

Yes and Yes.
You have my sympathy. For some reason difference scores are hard. I had to stop mid-discussion section this semester when they were totally confused by a simple bar graph of difference scores and give them a mini rant lecture on how important it is to learn to interpret graphs as this was a basic skill they were going to need in every future class.

[the_geneticist]

Dear students,
Online learning is hard.  I get it, I really do.  You have to be a lot more organized & responsible than you do for in person classes.  That's why I build in a lot of structure, consistency, and transparency about what you are learning and what do to earn points in this class.  But when assignments are: in the syllabus, in the online Assignment list, on your online CMS calendar, and I sent you a reminder email; then I have ZERO SYMPATHY for you when you "forgot/didn't realize/didn't know".
Get a day planner or calendar.  Write down/type in/import all of your assignments.  Use it.

Bang! Bang! Bang!

P.S. Also, wake up on time to go to class on time.  You would have earned a 0 on that quiz in person "oh, I slept in" students.  Or you could take the quiz early.  It's available 24 hours before it's due.  Because I'm nice.  I could make it available for just the 1st 10 minutes of your live class time.

[Istiblennius]

Ugh, I feel you.

No, student, your experimental hypothesis is NOT just the opposite of the Null Hypothesis for your statistical test (If I had a time machine, I would go back and make sure the stats folks used a different term).

No, your hypothesis isn't an if-then statement. (If you didn't get this over the course of the semester, I should just fail you and make you take the course again).

Do I ever feel your pain... my students are convinced the predictions and hypotheses are interchangeable and it is sooooooo hard to disabuse them of this notion. Largely due to the if-then fallacy that seems to have been drummed into them in high school.

[FishProf]

Largely due to the if-then fallacy that seems to have been drummed into them in high school.

I always start my lecture in experimental design and the scientific 'method' with "You were lied to in elementary, middle, and high school..."

Eventually I can get them to "If you are telling me WHAT will happen - THAT is your prediction.  If you tell me WHY - THAT is your hypothesis (more or less)."

[the_geneticist]

Largely due to the if-then fallacy that seems to have been drummed into them in high school.

I always start my lecture in experimental design and the scientific 'method' with "You were lied to in elementary, middle, and high school..."

Eventually I can get them to "If you are telling me WHAT will happen - THAT is your prediction.  If you tell me WHY - THAT is your hypothesis (more or less)."

Don't even get me started on the difficultly in teaching them that you start with testing your Null Hypothesis.  Why?  Because if you run the stats and see NO DIFFERENCE between your data sets, you are done.  No need to test for if X>Y if X is no different from Y.

[ergative]

Largely due to the if-then fallacy that seems to have been drummed into them in high school.

I always start my lecture in experimental design and the scientific 'method' with "You were lied to in elementary, middle, and high school..."

Eventually I can get them to "If you are telling me WHAT will happen - THAT is your prediction.  If you tell me WHY - THAT is your hypothesis (more or less)."

Don't even get me started on the difficultly in teaching them that you start with testing your Null Hypothesis.  Why?  Because if you run the stats and see NO DIFFERENCE between your data sets, you are done.  No need to test for if X>Y if X is no different from Y.

My problem isn't so much that, as the difficulty in getting them to understand that you can't legitimately conclude that two things are the same (well, with NHST you can't). You can find that there is insufficient evidence to conclude that they're different, but that's not the same as concluding that they're the same. And then my students turn around and design experiments with Condition A and Condition B and say 'If my hypothesis is correct, then there should be no difference in reaction time between Condition A and Condition B.' And instead of assigning the B- for understanding what a condition is and moving on, I'm somehow still writing marginal comments earnestly trying to point out everything that's wrong with that statement.

(I don't dare give up the marginal comments, because these projects are feeders for senior year capstone projects, and if I don't get sufficiently discouraging now, I run the risk of ending up with students wanting me to supervise their capstone experiments that just reuse the same project design, complete with the same problems.)