Author Topic: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)  (Read 596 times)

marshwiggle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2021, 09:01:37 AM »

I think the NDP's limitations federally have at least as much to do with being extremely socially progressive as with their economic platform. Since most voters are near the centre, being even more woke than the Liberals is going to prevent them being considered by many.

This is absolutely the wrong diagnosis. Kron3007 is correct: the NDP routinely bleeds support to the Liberals when they run left (especially in Ontario). A swing like that is exactly what got Trudeau into power the first time. In provinces like BC, the three-way contest between Liberals, NDP, and Greens likewise splits the vote just enough to keep the NDP and Greens out of those seats.

It's a matter of degree. If the average voter is socially between the Liberals and NDP, and economically between the Conservatives and the Liberals, then to get enough votes the Liberals can crowd the NDP socially and the conservatives economically. (Which is what they typically do.) They're aren't enough votes for either extreme left social policies or extreme right economic policies to guarantee power to either the NDP or Conservatives.

 
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Morden

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2021, 11:00:10 AM »
I was pleased that all of the party leaders came out against the anti-mask protests in front of hospitals. (How sad is it that that is even a question/talking point)

marshwiggle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2021, 11:13:28 AM »
I was pleased that all of the party leaders came out against the anti-mask protests in front of hospitals. (How sad is it that that is even a question/talking point)

Yes, it's depressing that we can barely claim to be better about the whole thing than south of the border.....
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Parasaurolophus

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2021, 02:52:37 PM »
Obama has endorsed Trudeau for the second time.


This kind of interference really gets my goat. Vive le Québec libre, anyone?

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mamselle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2021, 03:24:15 PM »
Hmm, that's an interesting thing.

I wonder why....

M.
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kaysixteen

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2021, 11:44:46 PM »
A question for the Canadians here-- given the multiparty nature of Canadian politics, exactly how 'conservative' is the Canadian conservative party?  Should it win, and even gain a parliamentary majortity, how different would it likely govern from the 'Liberals', seeing as there are several parties that seem to be to the left of the Liberals, and perhaps some (People's Party?   Bloc Quebec?) to the right of the Conservatives?  Or do I err?

I am thinking that the sort of right-wing whackjobbery that we are now seeing from the GOP here is not really seen in Canada, at least not in the Conservative Party, and perhaps the lack of political primaries there accounts for at least some of this?

Kron3007

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2021, 03:24:34 AM »
A question for the Canadians here-- given the multiparty nature of Canadian politics, exactly how 'conservative' is the Canadian conservative party?  Should it win, and even gain a parliamentary majortity, how different would it likely govern from the 'Liberals', seeing as there are several parties that seem to be to the left of the Liberals, and perhaps some (People's Party?   Bloc Quebec?) to the right of the Conservatives?  Or do I err?

I am thinking that the sort of right-wing whackjobbery that we are now seeing from the GOP here is not really seen in Canada, at least not in the Conservative Party, and perhaps the lack of political primaries there accounts for at least some of this?

The conservatives have swung more to the centre to capture votes, so it wouldn't be dramatically different that liberal governance in many ways (but different enough to matter). 

The people's party of Canada (PPC) launched a few years ago and is filling the further right side of things, but the only have about 6% of the vote, and even that seems to be driven by anti-vax, anti shutdown items as they were only polling around 2% before.  The basically seem like the reform party was years ago, but it's good to see the conservative vote split.

Kron3007

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2021, 03:25:22 AM »
The Bloc only runs in Quebec and only cares about Quebec issues, so they don't really count.

mamselle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2021, 03:44:45 AM »
Has Marine Le Pen offered to "Come over and help them?"

;--》

M.
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Hibush

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2021, 03:45:56 AM »
The Bloc only runs in Quebec and only cares about Quebec issues, so they don't really count.
I saw a polling prediction where the PPP surpassed Bloc in national popularity (each about 6.5%) but Block was predicted to get ~35 seats vs PPP's zero.
The difference is the geographic distribution of those voters, of course.

marshwiggle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2021, 05:11:13 AM »

I am thinking that the sort of right-wing whackjobbery that we are now seeing from the GOP here is not really seen in Canada, at least not in the Conservative Party, and perhaps the lack of political primaries there accounts for at least some of this?

Canadian Conservatives are much different from Republicans in the US. One major difference show up in healthcare. Some years ago, a poll was done of what government services people valued most. Healthcare came first; national defence came second. Universal healthcare is never going away, and no party that ever dreams of forming a government can touch that. (As has been pointed out, there are service that aren't covered, which varies by province, such as dental and vision care, but the vast majority of voters believe basic healthcare should be pretty much a human right. Any serious talk about private healthcare tends to be primarily related to services which aren't covered publicly.)
Another example, while there have been some anti-vax and anti-mask protest, covid is VASTLY less politicized here than in the US. Even in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, there were lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. They removed restrictions early this summer, have had a big fourth wave spike, and a couple of days ago re-imposed restrictions, and the premier went on TV and admitted "I WAS WRONG." How many governors in the US have done that?

The gun lobby here is not remotely as strong as in the US, and the main gun owners tend to be farmers and others in rural areas. Again, no  party who dreamed of governing could propose the kind of free-for-all in the US.

Immigration has support of about 2/3 of Canadians. Because of our points system, people mostly realize that immigrants are good for the economy.

Post secondary education is pretty much exclusively public, and that's not going to change.

Public education is decently funded, and there's no serious lobby to reduce funding.

I'm sure there are lots more examples, but these are a few big ones.

Oh yeah, election rules, boundaries, etc. are set by ELECTIONS CANADA, which is at arm's length from the government, so we don't get all of the jackassery that happens in the US.

Both Conservatives and conservatives in Canada are a lot different than Republicans and conservatives in the US.
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Kron3007

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2021, 05:30:38 AM »
We most definitely have Republican style conservatives in Canada, they are just a small minority.  I have met a number of Canadians who love trump, and wish we had him up here.  Fortunately, they are on the fringe up here. 

As for health care, the fear is that conservatives will erode it by introducing two tier systems and private options.  I don't see anyone being successful pitching private health care, but if we are not careful it could slowly deteriorate.

I was in rural Saskatchewan recently and was amazed at all the maverick party signs.  Pretty sure these guys are Republican style western separatists.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 05:35:00 AM by Kron3007 »

marshwiggle

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2021, 05:38:55 AM »
We most definitely have Republican style conservatives in Canada, they are just a small minority.  I have met a number of Canadians who love trump, and wish we had him up here.  Fortunately, they are on the fringe up here. 

Very much so.

Here's another factoid.
Vaccination rates across Canada:

Highest: Yukon 80% single dose, 76% fully vaxxed
Lowest: Nunavut: 61% single dose, 54% fully vaxxed

National: 75% single dose, 69% fully vaxxed

Given how vastly spread out the population is in Nunavut, that's not bad. How's that compare to the best and worst US states?

Also, governments that didn't want to introduce vaccine mandates and/or passports, even conservative ones, have been forced to do so by public opinion.
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Parasaurolophus

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2021, 07:43:04 AM »
A question for the Canadians here-- given the multiparty nature of Canadian politics, exactly how 'conservative' is the Canadian conservative party?  Should it win, and even gain a parliamentary majortity, how different would it likely govern from the 'Liberals', seeing as there are several parties that seem to be to the left of the Liberals, and perhaps some (People's Party?   Bloc Quebec?) to the right of the Conservatives?  Or do I err?

I am thinking that the sort of right-wing whackjobbery that we are now seeing from the GOP here is not really seen in Canada, at least not in the Conservative Party, and perhaps the lack of political primaries there accounts for at least some of this?

The Conservative Party currently has a Progressive Conservative in charge, and he's trying to shift the party back to the centre. But he's faced a lot of resistance--at their recent party convention, for example, the party refused to declare that climate change is real and anthropogenic. That's because since the Progressive Conservatives and Reform Party (the social conservatives) merged under Harper in 2003-04, the show's been mostly run by the Reform Party and its hacks, and they're pretty much just a regional voting block (viz. Alberta + Saskatchewan + some of Manitoba). It's still very much Harper's party, and shifting it to something more nationally palatable has proven... difficult.

The PPC is a fringe right party concerned with two issues: (1) eliminating supply management, and (2) non-white immigration. That's pretty much it.

The Bloc was founded by defectors from the Liberals and Progressive Conservatives, and was a centrist party for a while. Then, under Gilles Duceppe (1997-2015), it moved left. After his departure from the helm in 2015, it's moved right and is now somewhere in the progressive conservative area, although it's complicated.
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jimbogumbo

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Re: Election 2021! (Canada votes again...)
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2021, 08:22:43 AM »

I am thinking that the sort of right-wing whackjobbery that we are now seeing from the GOP here is not really seen in Canada, at least not in the Conservative Party, and perhaps the lack of political primaries there accounts for at least some of this?

Canadian Conservatives are much different from Republicans in the US. One major difference show up in healthcare. Some years ago, a poll was done of what government services people valued most. Healthcare came first; national defence came second. Universal healthcare is never going away, and no party that ever dreams of forming a government can touch that. (As has been pointed out, there are service that aren't covered, which varies by province, such as dental and vision care, but the vast majority of voters believe basic healthcare should be pretty much a human right. Any serious talk about private healthcare tends to be primarily related to services which aren't covered publicly.)
Another example, while there have been some anti-vax and anti-mask protest, covid is VASTLY less politicized here than in the US. Even in Alberta, the most conservative province in Canada, there were lockdowns, mask mandates, etc. They removed restrictions early this summer, have had a big fourth wave spike, and a couple of days ago re-imposed restrictions, and the premier went on TV and admitted "I WAS WRONG." How many governors in the US have done that?

The gun lobby here is not remotely as strong as in the US, and the main gun owners tend to be farmers and others in rural areas. Again, no  party who dreamed of governing could propose the kind of free-for-all in the US.

Immigration has support of about 2/3 of Canadians. Because of our points system, people mostly realize that immigrants are good for the economy.

Post secondary education is pretty much exclusively public, and that's not going to change.

Public education is decently funded, and there's no serious lobby to reduce funding.

I'm sure there are lots more examples, but these are a few big ones.

Oh yeah, election rules, boundaries, etc. are set by ELECTIONS CANADA, which is at arm's length from the government, so we don't get all of the jackassery that happens in the US.

Both Conservatives and conservatives in Canada are a lot different than Republicans and conservatives in the US.

I want to go to there!

Question: does a retired 68 year old US Citizen with plenty of savings have any chance of residency in Canada?