The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: smallcleanrat on April 24, 2024, 06:47:32 PM[. . .]

Why is the short version rude?

[. . .]

Where do all these rules and protocols come from anyway?

[. . .]

Don't know how much science is in the book, but the answer to your questions: culture. The dominant norm in the USA and Canada is to utter a couple of short sentences in this situation, rather than only "I'm leaving now." Are there exceptions? Yes. But usually something like "I've got to get to class now. See you later" is sufficient.

It gets even more fun when interacting with people who have different cultural norms.

My parents taught me how to shake hands and make eye contact, how to properly answer the phone ("Redux residence. Wahoo speaking."), and how to scoop my soup spoon with correct decorum.  All of this was directed at adult behavior and was worthless in junior high.

Your book offers advice that is different in degree and kind to these but is still in the same kingdom, it seems to me---these are simple social survival techniques like eating soup correctly.  No one will be offended by them.  I'd suggest using them only when necessary or when feeling insecure.     

Quote from: dismalist on April 24, 2024, 11:12:48 AM

QuoteI can't think of any example where a superior military power was actually able to dislodge a rag tag militia that can hide among the populace, take a few pot shots, and disappear back into the crowd.

It is forgotten that the French military won the Battle of Algiers and, indeed, controlled Algeria. Algeria gained independence because of support from outside. This was called "the internationalization of the conflict". This strategy has been imitated by the PLO, and now Hamas. Placing armed fighters among the civilian population is intended to cause lots of civilian casualties, which are then thought to stimulate outside support.

I don't think it will be successful because the Battle for Gaza is being fought by a neighboring, independent country with an existential interest in complete victory, something that metropolitan France never had -- French soil was not seriously threatened by the NLF.

Less dramatic historical memory surrounds the Malayan Emergency [1948 - 1960] because the British defeated the insurgents.

^ This.

Viet Nam is a great example.

The US Civil War was a classic example. On paper, the North should have won in 20 minutes. They had all the industry, weapons, wealth. What did they have to do to the South, and how long did it take, for them to finally get the South to surrender?

Been reading a book recommended to me by the clinic where I received my diagnosis.

It's called The Science of Making Friends: Helping Socially Challenged Teens and Young Adults. It was written by a professor at UCLA who directs a clinic offering social skills training to young people.

I've been seeing what I can glean from it, even though I am no longer in the high school/college-aged demographic the book is aiming to help.

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I'm puzzled by a section in the book describing how to exit conversations.

(1) First, it says not to make your farewell too short (e.g. "Well, gotta go." or "See you later."), as this "would seem strange and possibly rude." It says it's better to give a reason for going (e.g. "Well, the bell is about to ring. I better get to class.") and then add on that "you'll see or speak to them later."

Why is the short version rude?

(2) But then the book cautions not to make the farewell explanation too long: "When people go on and on trying to explain why they have to do something it often sounds fake or made up."

I would have thought the reason not to go into too much detail would be that people are quite simply not likely to be interested. What about a detailed explanation makes it sound fake? Why doesn't lack of detail/vagueness make an explanation sound fake?

This was the book's example of an explanation that's too long:

Quote"Well, the bell is about to ring and I have a science midterm. I don't want to be late because I've been late five times this semester and I don't want to get in trouble. My professor gets really uptight when people show up late and I don't want to make her mad right before an exam. So I better get going."

Does that seem fake? I don't get it.

(3) Then there's the case of how to leave when you're in a group but are being excluded from the conversation. (This is the scenario I find myself in a lot).

QuoteSlowly look away as if you're distracted by something. When you look away, make sure that you don't look all the way behind you. Instead, look to one side or the other or look at a personal item such as a mobile phone.

And then the advice about what to say (explanation + farewell) applies.

So...what is the purpose of looking to the side? Is the whole point to pretend something else has got your attention and that's why you're leaving? Isn't that being fake? Is being fake ok as long as you're not perceived to be fake? And why can't you look behind you?

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Does it seem like this book is offering advice I can trust? Where do all these rules and protocols come from anyway?

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on April 24, 2024, 08:29:44 AMSome T1, some refereeing.

Finished and sent my referee report. Did a little of T1.

Quote from: apl68 on April 23, 2024, 07:10:33 AMI've heard of the old poem "The Face on the Barroom Floor."  This kind of takes things to a new level.

Now we have the updated version:  The Mandible on the Bathroom Floor

Hummer feeder out today!

Politicians continue to meddle instead of mediating.

QuoteHouse Speaker Says White House Should Act as Campus Protests Spread
Speaker Mike Johnson faced boos at Columbia as he criticized protesters after meeting with Jewish students. He invoked the possibility of bringing in the National Guard and cutting funding to universities.

QuoteNew York governor tells Speaker Johnson to stay out of Columbia tumult

QuoteHochul said Johnson would be better off taking up the bipartisan border security bill that, she said, would help deal with the ongoing situation involving migrants in the state of New York.

"It seems to me there's a lot more responsibilities and crises to be dealt with in Washington," Hochul said. "I'd encourage the Speaker to go back and perhaps take up the migrant bill, the bill to deal with closing the borders, so we can deal with the real crisis that New York has."

Republicans have been blasting the presidents of several elite East Coast schools for months over their handling of protests and the protection of Jewish students.

New York's House delegation this week called for the resignation of Columbia's president.

Quote from: Ruralguy on April 24, 2024, 01:05:53 PMI'm going to stick with my original statement.

That's okay, I don't need to pick a fight, least of all with you.


It seems to me that the better option, here, was for the administration to let the students have their protest but ultimately refuse to divest/halt plans for their Tel Aviv campus (because that's what the administration wants, not because I endorse that response). This draconian response serves only to build bad blood/reputation and invite lawsuits (from students and faculty alike). Sure, some donors would have been pissy. But some donors are always pissy.

I'm going to stick with my original statement.