San Francisco Renaming Schools

[Parasaurolophus]

It's really not very difficult:

• If you can name buildings, then you can rename them, too. This is a legal process. Who gets to name a thing, or decide what it's named, is a legal matter.
  
• You can also judge people for their naming decisions, and you can also judge that some names are inapt or offensive. These are moral processes. The people who get to exercise their moral faculties are the exact same people who get to do so when you call them a bad name, or when you punch them in the face, or when you take a shit on the sidewalk--i.e. everyone around you.

If your follow-up question is 'who decides what's moral?', then the answer is 'everyone, but nobody in particular'. If you want to follow up on that with 'what makes something morally good or morally bad', well, take a class in meta-ethics.

So what does meta ethics tell me about Benito?

Nothing. It's meta-ethics, not applied ethics.

[financeguy]

I wonder how these people would react if those opposed simply started going after their idols instead. If I had to guess who has the most number of named schools, street signs, monuments and other honors, MLK would probably be at or near the top from a numbers standpoint. What if some nutjob on the other side started trying to rename every MLK Blvd or King Middle School because he was a Reverend who engaged in serial infidelity or a scholar who engaged in massive plagiarism? Most people with a couple brain cells to rub together would not really care if these statements are factually accurate since they are disproportional in context to the reason the honors were given. If you're just trying to prove that a particular human being was imperfect, you can always do that.

[mahagonny]

I wonder how these people would react if those opposed simply started going after their idols instead. If I had to guess who has the most number of named schools, street signs, monuments and other honors, MLK would probably be at or near the top from a numbers standpoint. What if some nutjob on the other side started trying to rename every MLK Blvd or King Middle School because he was a Reverend who engaged in serial infidelity or a scholar who engaged in massive plagiarism? Most people with a couple brain cells to rub together would not really care if these statements are factually accurate since they are disproportional in context to the reason the honors were given. If you're just trying to prove that a particular human being was imperfect, you can always do that.

No one wants to talk about that. Still, I mentioned the Jimi Hendrix statue in Seattle. He is praised for writing peace and love songs like 'Power of Love' "Message of Love" "Machine Gun" (anti-Vietnam War) but then was also versatile enough to sing 'Hey Joe I heard you shot your woman down, down to the ground' which is followed by the guy celebrating his expected freedom by crossing the border into Mexico. Which seems a little more authentic given that he was violent with women when drinking, intensely jealous while anything but faithful in relationships. And then there's that anthem 'Are You Experienced' followed by, a few short years later, premature death from vomit asphyxiation, mixing barbiturates and alcohol, which, one would think, maybe, people who boast about experience while failing to learn from it are not great examples for our nation's youth. But you know, once the boomers deify someone, he's untouchable.

[Caracal]

Silly, but I have can think of more important things to be outraged about

...than the fact that some of the people these schools were named for had noticeable flaws? Agreed. This is what is so funny about the loony left. Outrage as a pastime.

Says a man posting on some forum about how he's outraged that some middle schools in San Francisco might get new names.

[marshwiggle]

Silly, but I have can think of more important things to be outraged about

...than the fact that some of the people these schools were named for had noticeable flaws? Agreed. This is what is so funny about the loony left. Outrage as a pastime.

Says a man posting on some forum about how he's outraged that some middle schools in San Francisco might get new names.

I haven't noticed mahagonny expressing outrage. In fact, here's his post to start the thread:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/28/961511395/san-francisco-may-rename-schools-named-after-washington-lincoln-and-others

Discuss.

In cancel culture, apparently suggesting certain issues be discussed counts as outrage.

[Langue_doc]

Renaming of schools and other institutions is a slippery slope. Where does this end? Rename Yale? Other institutions of higher education?

The Sierra Club recently *expunged* John Muir's name out of a sense of misplaced outrage. Planned Parenthood of NY likewise *scrubbed out* Margaret Sanger's name from its building. Guess which two organizations are no longer getting any contributions from me? The Americal Ornithological Society renamed the McCown's Longspur. Did they really think that bird watchers would fondly remember the Confederate general after which the bird was named? Audubon has also been considered for being erased.

The purported 'racist" beliefs were typical of the era. It's outrageous that the accomplishments of people such as Muir and Sanger would be dismissed and their names erased from the organizations that they founded.

I'm surprised that people have the time and energy to rename schools and organizations. The schools would be better served if these people would spend their time and energy on tutoring the children in these schools or find ways to provide extra support for the children and teachers. They should be volunteering instead of virtue signaling.

[marshwiggle]

I'm surprised that people have the time and energy to rename schools and organizations. The schools would be better served if these people would spend their time and energy on tutoring the children in these schools or find ways to provide extra support for the children and teachers. They should be volunteering instead of virtue signaling.

A hundred years from now, who's likely to be more remembered for helping oppressed people; Abraham Lincoln or the San Francisco School Board?

Wow, that's a toughie.

[mahagonny]

Silly, but I have can think of more important things to be outraged about

...than the fact that some of the people these schools were named for had noticeable flaws? Agreed. This is what is so funny about the loony left. Outrage as a pastime.

Says a man posting on some forum about how he's outraged that some middle schools in San Francisco might get new names.

I haven't noticed mahagonny expressing outrage. In fact, here's his post to start the thread:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/28/961511395/san-francisco-may-rename-schools-named-after-washington-lincoln-and-others

Discuss.

In cancel culture, apparently suggesting certain issues be discussed counts as outrage.

Or asking why the left doesn't want to be consistent, whereas many things are named after MLK who was also far less than perfect in ways that one might think would offend feminists. Because, admit it please, this is not just committee in SF doing something routine, it's a response to a nationwide movement that has much outrage in it, as one of them explained, taking note of their solemn duty to keep pace with the new enlightened society. I already posted it upthread, but here it is again:

"This is an opportunity for our students to learn about the history of our school's names, including the potential new ones," Board President Gabriela López said. "This resolution came to the school board in the wake of the attacks in Charlottesville, and we are working alongside the rest of the country to dismantle symbols of racism and white supremacy culture. I am excited about the ideas schools will come up with."

So: Dear Left People, if you're going to have a movement that we should all know about please be ready to explain it.

Still waiting for a definition of White Supremacy in 2021.

[apl68]

This is a city that reportedly has more drug addicts than high school students.  They've launched the nation's most intensive "harm reduction" drug program, with needle exchanges, emergency drugs to treat OD cases readily available, and virtually no enforcement of drug laws so that addicts won't be afraid to seek help.  And drug deaths have skyrocketed in the past year. 

They've got much more important problems to deal with than debating what to name their schools.

[marshwiggle]

This is a city that reportedly has more drug addicts than high school students.  They've launched the nation's most intensive "harm reduction" drug program, with needle exchanges, emergency drugs to treat OD cases readily available, and virtually no enforcement of drug laws so that addicts won't be afraid to seek help.  And drug deaths have skyrocketed in the past year. 

As I understand it, this is to make drug addicts "safer".

[spork]

This is a city that reportedly has more drug addicts than high school students.  They've launched the nation's most intensive "harm reduction" drug program, with needle exchanges, emergency drugs to treat OD cases readily available, and virtually no enforcement of drug laws so that addicts won't be afraid to seek help.  And drug deaths have skyrocketed in the past year. 

They've got much more important problems to deal with than debating what to name their schools.

El Chapo Elementary?

The Pablo Escobar Memorial High School?

[Parasaurolophus]

This is a city that reportedly has more drug addicts than high school students.  They've launched the nation's most intensive "harm reduction" drug program, with needle exchanges, emergency drugs to treat OD cases readily available, and virtually no enforcement of drug laws so that addicts won't be afraid to seek help.  And drug deaths have skyrocketed in the past year. 

There's lots of evidence that these measures work. We have the same measures here, and have done for almost twenty years now. They've significantly reduced drug deaths, and increased treatment.

Our deaths have also skyrocketed this year--entirely because of COVID-19, which makes it harder for needle exchanges to run properly, which exacerbates the issues facing drug users, etc.

[financeguy]

That "evidence" does not include a five minute walk through any portion of the wasteland formerly known as San Francisco. Needles everywhere on the ground. Human waste everywhere on the ground, to the extent there is a reporting app. Homeless encampments everywhere. Productive taxpayers (and businesses) leaving in huge numbers, such that the cost to get a Uhaul departing SF for Texas is several times the cost of the reverse direction. It's hard to overestimate how much the rest of the country sees SF (and other democrat cities such as Chicago and DC) as manuals for what not to do. You couldn't have a stronger example of abject failure in nearly ever possible way despite high tax base and great natural geography.

[Parasaurolophus]

You're right, the evidence doesn't consist of made-up or exaggerated anecdotes.

[mythbuster]

Oh, San Francisco. I grew up in the Bay Area and so am familiar with these hothouse discussions that crop up there from time to time. I look forward to the list published by the School board of the saints that do qualify for school names.
    I now live in a city where Robert E Lee High will be playing basketball against Stonewall Douglas HS on Friday and the former Nathan Bedford Forrest HS the following week (that one got a name change 2 years ago after a decade+ fight). Believe me, I would LOVE to have a HS in the area named after Lincoln or the other so called "racists" on this list.
   I find it highly amusing that they want to rename Willie Brown middle school. SF hasn't had many mayors of color, so that's a slap. It's not because he's a womanizer, but because he contributed to gentrification! Which of course directly led to this exact panel.