Anyone have a good bibliography for reading about the current depressing tendency of righties to signal, by doing things like refusing to mask and vax, etc?
Quote from: kaysixteen on July 29, 2021, 11:36:47 PM
Anyone have a good bibliography for reading about the current depressing tendency of righties to signal, by doing things like refusing to mask and vax, etc?
A point of clarification: Painting a rainbow on a crosswalk is
signaling; refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask is
taking action. It may be a stupid action, but it has actual direct consequences. As more people get vaccinated, the unvaxxed non-maskers are less of a threat to anyone but themselves and people close to them.
If we're going to use the term "signal", for anywhere on the political spectrum, let's be consistent and stick to the defintion.
Signal: a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
K16's usage is also current, as in "virtue-signalling," etc.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on July 30, 2021, 06:31:48 AM
K16's usage is also current, as in "virtue-signalling," etc.
M.
Alas, no. Virtue signalling is hardly about virtuous acts. It's moral grandstanding.
From Wikipedia: Virtue signalling may incorporate some or all elements found in political correctness, self-righteousness, and moral superiority. ... describes virtue signalling as a public act [such as signing a petition, insert mine] with minimal associated cost intended to inform others of one's socially acceptable alignment on an issue.
... in The
Guardian, suggested the phrase was the sequel insult to champagne socialist.
I think in this case Mamselle and K16 are both right in their useage of "signaling" and "virtue signaling". The pseudopatriotic KKKristian* right considers placing their personal desires and rights above the good of society. They believe freedom means they have freedom to impose their views and values on everyone else (my body my choice applies to vaccines but not to women's reproductive health or trans youth's access to hormone therapy). Thus, by refusing vaccines and masks, or pulling a Tucker Carlson and getting a vaccine but playing coy about it, they are signalling what they believe to be a virtue.
*In reference to those who claim to follow Christ act in direct opposition to his teachings. - The guy who broke up the money lenders at the temple would have a lot to say about the greedy hypocrites have co-opted his worldview and teachings.
Quote from: marshwiggle on July 30, 2021, 05:03:02 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on July 29, 2021, 11:36:47 PM
Anyone have a good bibliography for reading about the current depressing tendency of righties to signal, by doing things like refusing to mask and vax, etc?
A point of clarification: Painting a rainbow on a crosswalk is signaling; refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask is taking action. It may be a stupid action, but it has actual direct consequences. As more people get vaccinated, the unvaxxed non-maskers are less of a threat to anyone but themselves and people close to them.
If we're going to use the term "signal", for anywhere on the political spectrum, let's be consistent and stick to the defintion.
Signal: a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
I'm pretty sure that the prominent refusal to mask up is a kind of signalling about who you are and what you believe.
Actions can be symbolic in addition to being actions. If I piss on the flag, I'm acting
and conveying information.
Yes.
A related category would be conceptual performance art.
Which, if anyone cares to know, appears in the writings of the prophets Isaiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, among others...
M.
Quote from: Istiblennius on July 30, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
I think in this case Mamselle and K16 are both right in their useage of "signaling" and "virtue signaling". The pseudopatriotic KKKristian* right considers placing their personal desires and rights above the good of society. They believe freedom means they have freedom to impose their views and values on everyone else (my body my choice applies to vaccines but not to women's reproductive health or trans youth's access to hormone therapy). Thus, by refusing vaccines and masks, or pulling a Tucker Carlson and getting a vaccine but playing coy about it, they are signalling what they believe to be a virtue.
*In reference to those who claim to follow Christ act in direct opposition to his teachings. - The guy who broke up the money lenders at the temple would have a lot to say about the greedy hypocrites have co-opted his worldview and teachings.
Was Jesus Christ an advocate of abortion rights, and if so in which trimesters?
I don't believe the bible has ANYTHING to say about abortion rights. One way or the other.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on July 30, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on July 30, 2021, 05:03:02 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on July 29, 2021, 11:36:47 PM
Anyone have a good bibliography for reading about the current depressing tendency of righties to signal, by doing things like refusing to mask and vax, etc?
A point of clarification: Painting a rainbow on a crosswalk is signaling; refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask is taking action. It may be a stupid action, but it has actual direct consequences. As more people get vaccinated, the unvaxxed non-maskers are less of a threat to anyone but themselves and people close to them.
If we're going to use the term "signal", for anywhere on the political spectrum, let's be consistent and stick to the defintion.
Signal: a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
I'm pretty sure that the prominent refusal to mask up is a kind of signalling about who you are and what you believe.
Actions can be symbolic in addition to being actions. If I piss on the flag, I'm acting and conveying information.
The point is that that's of no cost to you.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/30/metro/why-some-wont-ditch-their-masks-outdoors-im-not-about-look-like-republican/
The signaling is not confined to any one political ideology.
Quote from: Anselm on July 30, 2021, 12:55:03 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/30/metro/why-some-wont-ditch-their-masks-outdoors-im-not-about-look-like-republican/
The signaling is not confined to any one political ideology.
Neither is pissing on a flag. It's still a symbolic action, though.
Quote from: mahagonny on July 30, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: Istiblennius on July 30, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
(my body my choice applies to vaccines but not to women's reproductive health
Was Jesus Christ an advocate of abortion rights, and if so in which trimesters?
Reproductive health > abortions.
Quote from: Istiblennius on July 30, 2021, 04:33:51 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on July 30, 2021, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: Istiblennius on July 30, 2021, 10:26:49 AM
(my body my choice applies to vaccines but not to women's reproductive health
Was Jesus Christ an advocate of abortion rights, and if so in which trimesters?
Reproductive health > abortions.
If you're ever out in Texas, be careful.
The reason I brought up signaling, aka 'virtue signaling', was because I had already been thinking about this a goodly amount recently, wrt many of my coreligionists' depressing actions throughout the pandemic and esp since the development of the vax, when I heard Prof. Jonathan Gruber, MIT economist, talking on 'Boston Public Radio' the other day. I did not catch the entire interview, but he was mentioning this, citing a column written by Nobel laureate Paul Krugman. He agrees with Krugman that this is taking place, to the great hurt not only of the signalers, but to a real extent to the rest of us, but Gruber also claimed that such signaling is also, wrt the two main US political parties, due to what Gruber thinks is a closening of political positions between the two parties. I find this to be in error. While it is true that there are fewer radical extremists, which he defined as ultra-libertarians on the right, and unreconstructed socialists-fellow travelers, on the left, nonetheless, as I see it the two parties have drifted very much further apart from each other culturally, with this being even more so with the GOP. Or am I missing something? Such cultural bona fides seem tailor-made for occasions of signaling....
If there is anything bringing the two tribes closer together I would guess it's the common sense. Wearing a mask is safer than not wearing one, but intelligent people may disagree on how much safer, because scientists don't agree. So no matter how much we learn about airborne germs, this particular virus, etc. it's something between a guess and a calculated risk. And there are downsides to always erring on the side of caution. Wearing a mask all day while you work outdoors in the hot July sun or an eight hour shift tending bar or waiting tables, which are strenuous, also involve frequent speech - these are added stress factors. Then there are the fights on airplanes. People are buying extra drinks so they can take their masks off. Then the flight attendant has to deal with drunk customers.
Didn't hear the Krugman interview yet.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on July 30, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on July 30, 2021, 05:03:02 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on July 29, 2021, 11:36:47 PM
Anyone have a good bibliography for reading about the current depressing tendency of righties to signal, by doing things like refusing to mask and vax, etc?
A point of clarification: Painting a rainbow on a crosswalk is signaling; refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask is taking action. It may be a stupid action, but it has actual direct consequences. As more people get vaccinated, the unvaxxed non-maskers are less of a threat to anyone but themselves and people close to them.
If we're going to use the term "signal", for anywhere on the political spectrum, let's be consistent and stick to the defintion.
Signal: a gesture, action, or sound that is used to convey information or instructions, typically by prearrangement between the parties concerned.
I'm pretty sure that the prominent refusal to mask up is a kind of signalling about who you are and what you believe.
Actions can be symbolic in addition to being actions. If I piss on the flag, I'm acting and conveying information.
By that usage of "action", then anything at all is an "action". My point was that
taking action is doing something which will have
explicit consequences, rather than something which
only has value
as an expression of the actor's views. To use the example of pissing on the flag, if no-one observes the person doing it then it is entirely pointless.
Quote from: mamselle on July 30, 2021, 11:04:57 AM
A related category would be conceptual performance art.
Which, if anyone cares to know, appears in the writings of the prophets Isaiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, among others...
M.
I'm not saying signaling cannot be effective; I'm saying that signaling is action that is only effective due to its expression of the actor's views. Volunteering at a soup kitchen would help homeless people directly; carrying a placard in a protest would not. (It might result in some sort of action on the part of government, but the action
itself would provide no material benefit to homeless people. Its ONLY value is in what it signals.)
Elijah challenging the prophets of Baal is perhaps an example of an action with a value that was
not purely symbolic. It was intended to not only show Elijah's views, but to
provide evidence for the people about which god to serve. And the effectiveness of the action depended
entirely on the outcome. Its purely "signaling" value was negligible. (Everyone already
knew which god Elijah served.)
As dismalist indicated, "signaling" requires virtually no cost to the signaler, whereas "taking action" does. (And the most valuable "taking action" has no guarantee of the limit of the cost, such as people who join "Doctors Without Borders" and go into a war zone, and may be injured or killed as a result. Signaling, on the other hand, leaves the signaler completely able to bail when it gets uncomfortable.)