Is this a "man bites dog" story?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/professor-sues-student-who-complained-to-university-about-failing-grade/ar-AAMNxtL?li=BBnbfcL
The article is short on a lot of facts and Id be interested in hearing more facts.
Some of the problems I see right off the bat are that the professor has a policy where 100% of a class grade comes from the final?
How copesetic is that?
As for faculty suing students, I dont know how this was resolved, but there was something that came before the faculty senate from the administration forbidding faculty from suing students!
And why would faculty be prohibited from attending a grievance hearing ?
"claiming that McEvoy failed to use all the options available to her to resolve the situation after she did not attend the grievance hearing. Kryzanski argued that his client had not been allowed to take part in the hearing process." (Kryzanski is the professor's attorney).
Finally why would a faculty member object to a course grade of C- being changed to "pass"?
Anyone have any insights to share?
"The student, Joseph Moran of New Jersey, was taking McEvoy's class in the legal environment of business"
Irony or extra credit?
Apparently she has sued the university before----age discrimination, I think.
And I know that we disdain RMP, but when you see a faculty getting nothing but defamatory reviews there is a problem.
She wanted the test mailed to her. They don't have Blackboard or D2L at this place?
She sounds a little cray-cray to me.
QuoteShe wanted the test mailed to her. They don't have Blackboard or D2L at this place?
I remember a discussion about that on here in the last few months. The consensus of opinion, as I recall, was that it was nuts to ask the students to go to the post office! IF the faculty member needs to grade a printed document, the buy a damn Printer and deal with the exams on your own time and dime! It is YOUR problem, not theirs!
Clean, I was just thinking of that discussion. The worst part of this case is that the exam was supposed to be mailed with tracking, and since the student neglected to include tracking, the exam, when it arrived safely received a failing grade.
And then we have this as the basis for the defamation claim: "Defendant Moran's statement that he 'did not feel comfortable with [McEvoy's] re-grading his paper from a non-bias way' was defamatory in that he was representing that he felt she would be biased in grading his paper just because he filed a complaint with the Fairfield administration," the professor's lawsuit alleges"
Buddy, you did the equivalent of failing an in-person exam for using the wrong color ink, and when the student complained you were overruled. I'm 100% with the student here.
When I was a TA I once had a student pull a fast one about submission deadlines and get away with it. Something like not turning in the assignment an then emailing me later to ask if I'd gotten it, accusing me of losing it, and then 'resubmitting' a digital document with a creation timestamp dated from after we'd discussed the solutions in class. (The professor knew all the details but wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt so I was overruled.) I was so mad that for the rest of the semester I would swap grading with a fellow TA: they got five of my students' assignments, including the cheater's submission, and I took five of their students' assignments. We swapped five-and-five rather than just the one assignment, because I didn't want the other TA to know which of my students I couldn't be objective about. I did this because I knew I couldn't be objective about it.
Quote from: ergative on August 01, 2021, 11:51:49 PM
Clean, I was just thinking of that discussion. The worst part of this case is that the exam was supposed to be mailed with tracking, and since the student neglected to include tracking, the exam, when it arrived safely received a failing grade.
...
Buddy, you did the equivalent of failing an in-person exam for using the wrong color ink, and when the student complained you were overruled. I'm 100% with the student here.
I was under the impression that the exam was late. Yes, the student didn't include tracking (per the instructions) and that's why the student didn't realize it was two days late. I'm not suggesting that McEvoy has set an unreasonable policy -- I think she has -- but she's also following her stated policies regarding the exam.
I don't understand the basis for the lawsuit.
Not a lawyer, so I might be wrong, but it seems like this is one of those cases where a lawsuit is going to just get tossed.
Does a professor actually have standing to sue in court about changes to a student's grade? You aren't allowed to sue just because you don't like something. You have to show it causes you actual tangible harm, which is going to be hard to do.
Defamation seems even weaker. Certain kinds of speech enjoy immunity from defamation charges. For example, you can't be sued for defamation for something you argue in a court. There are also protections given to things like government meetings. I would think that a grade appeal would fall in a similar category. You'd probably have to show that a student was making a malicious claim they knew to be false in that setting. Since the claim is just that the professor graded the paper unfairly, that would be pretty difficult.
Of course, beyond all that, this person is clearly off their rocker. In some circumstances, I could see fighting something like this, or bringing it to the attention of accreditors or professional bodies. Suing a student because they won a grade appeal is obviously not an appropriate step to take.
Some of the problems I see right off the bat are that the professor has a policy where 100% of a class grade comes from the final?
How copesetic is that?
Unrelated to the legal issues: I once was enrolled in a graduate course where the prof was basing the entire grade on a 50 question final exam. I dropped the course.
Quote from: RatGuy on August 02, 2021, 06:02:53 AM
Quote from: ergative on August 01, 2021, 11:51:49 PM
Clean, I was just thinking of that discussion. The worst part of this case is that the exam was supposed to be mailed with tracking, and since the student neglected to include tracking, the exam, when it arrived safely received a failing grade.
...
Buddy, you did the equivalent of failing an in-person exam for using the wrong color ink, and when the student complained you were overruled. I'm 100% with the student here.
I was under the impression that the exam was late. Yes, the student didn't include tracking (per the instructions) and that's why the student didn't realize it was two days late. I'm not suggesting that McEvoy has set an unreasonable policy -- I think she has -- but she's also following her stated policies regarding the exam.
I don't understand the basis for the lawsuit.
Here's the relevant passage:
Exams were to be mailed to the professor's home no later than June 12, 2020. Moran mailed his exam on June 8, but failed to have it tracked, according to the suit. Therefore, when it arrived at McEvoy's home on June 16, it received a failing grade.This may have been stated more clearly in the original instructions than in the article, but 'Mail your exam by June 12' is fully ambiguous between 'Your exam must be postmarked by June 12' and 'I must receive your exam by June 12', and since 'mailing' something refers to the action on the part of the sender, the interpretation on my end favors 'postmarked' rather than 'received by'.
Taxes need to be postmarked by April 15. Christmas presents need to be received by December 25th. For absentee ballots, whether it's postmark or receipt that matters depends on the state (https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/vopp-table-11-receipt-and-postmark-deadlines-for-absentee-ballots.aspx) and sometimes on the outcome of the state's lawsuit when they change their mind and want to change the date after the election and so sue.
I wonder what the assignment instructions actually said.
Another article shedding a sliver of light...
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/08/02/professor-sues-university-over-its-response-student%E2%80%99s-grade
This short note includes that the instructions noted that the assignment was made in May and that the instructions indicated that the professor must receive the assignment by a certain date or an F would be awarded. The student did not track the letter, though the professor had paid for that option.
The exam was sent to students at the end of May. Students were told that McEvoy had to receive responses by June 12. The instruction said anyone who did not turn in the exam on time would receive a failing grade."
Quote from: clean on August 02, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
Another article shedding a sliver of light...
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/08/02/professor-sues-university-over-its-response-student%E2%80%99s-grade
This short note includes that the instructions noted that the assignment was made in May and that the instructions indicated that the professor must receive the assignment by a certain date or an F would be awarded. The student did not track the letter, though the professor had paid for that option.
The exam was sent to students at the end of May. Students were told that McEvoy had to receive responses by June 12. The instruction said anyone who did not turn in the exam on time would receive a failing grade."
And presumably the tracking would allow her to check if any had been mailed on time but were delayed in delivery.
Of course, submitting through Blackboard (or Canvas) would have:
a. Cost less,
b. allowed for instant tracking
c. could have checked for plagiarism
d. not required students to go to the post office in the Days of COVID to handle setting up tracking on a package
e. But would have required the professor to print (though a printer would likely be cheaper than paying for postage!!)
In my collegiate experience I have even TAKEN a class such as this one. It would be a class to junior level college students, not law students. These are not future lawyers and the exams (note multiple) could easily have been multiple choice! Adding a proctoring service like Examity would even monitor the students to keep the most blatant forms of cheating down!**(see below).
So WHY THIS design for exams, for this level of course?
** Note that I used Examity for a junior level class in Real Estate Principles. They monitored the exam and then ended up catching a student that had placed a cell phone on the computer so that it was in the right corner of the computer screen. They had some suspicions related to her eye movement and there was some other noises and they asked her to pan the room, and the computer's reflection was seen in the TV screen showing the lights from the cellphone and the blocking of the computer screen. I took her to Student Court and the video led to her conviction and an F in the course. No way I would have caught it without live proctoring!!
Anyway, lots of questions, few answers about what seems to be a convergence of mismanagement of the processes all around!
ONE Last thing.... As a full professor, I have had the 'privilege' to serve on grievance committees. (The "benefit of being a Full Professor is that you can serve on nastier committees)! I dont remember, exactly, but I think that the rules prohibit allowing an attorney. You can HAVE one, they just can not interrupt the proceedings. They can pass you notes, but not speak on your behalf before the committee. So the later article noted that THE ATTORNEY was not allowed to participate in the proceeding, not that the faculty member was not allowed to participate. IF she CHOSE not to attend, then her ability to sue may become in question.
What about YOUR places? AS far as you recall, does YOUR grievance policy allow attorneys to participate actively?
Actually, I did see challenge to non-renewal which gave the "plaintiff's" lawyer room for a five minute statement, and then the lawyer commenced to talk for 40 minutes.
Quote from: nebo113 on August 02, 2021, 06:27:53 AM
Some of the problems I see right off the bat are that the professor has a policy where 100% of a class grade comes from the final?
How copesetic is that?
Unrelated to the legal issues: I once was enrolled in a graduate course where the prof was basing the entire grade on a 50 question final exam. I dropped the course.
When my brother attended law school in the 1980s, standard practice was to have the entire grade based on a 3-hour, 3-question final exam. Disturbing him during exam week was
not wise.
QuoteWhen my brother attended law school in the 1980s, standard practice was to have the entire grade based on a 3-hour, 3-question final exam. Disturbing him during exam week was not wise.
That is probably still standard in Law School, but Legal Environments of Business is usually a junior level business class (otherwise called "business law" and it mostly covers the Uniform Commercial Code.
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 02, 2021, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: clean on August 02, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
Another article shedding a sliver of light...
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/08/02/professor-sues-university-over-its-response-student%E2%80%99s-grade
This short note includes that the instructions noted that the assignment was made in May and that the instructions indicated that the professor must receive the assignment by a certain date or an F would be awarded. The student did not track the letter, though the professor had paid for that option.
The exam was sent to students at the end of May. Students were told that McEvoy had to receive responses by June 12. The instruction said anyone who did not turn in the exam on time would receive a failing grade."
And presumably the tracking would allow her to check if any had been mailed on time but were delayed in delivery.
Right, so that clears up the postmark/received by confusion. But I still don't see the point of tracking. Tracking is important if the exam never arrives and the student needs to prove they sent it (or, rather, sent
something). But if the exam does arrive, and has a postmark from before June 12th, then why would tracking matter? It was sent on time. It arrived late. If late arrival means an automatic fail, then tracking wouldn't change that; and if the important thing is an on-time dispatch, then a postmark should serve the purpose just as well as tracking. How does seeing what happened during the time in was in the USPS system change anything, once the exam arrives?
Quote from: ergative on August 03, 2021, 05:04:03 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 02, 2021, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: clean on August 02, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
Another article shedding a sliver of light...
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/08/02/professor-sues-university-over-its-response-student%E2%80%99s-grade
This short note includes that the instructions noted that the assignment was made in May and that the instructions indicated that the professor must receive the assignment by a certain date or an F would be awarded. The student did not track the letter, though the professor had paid for that option.
The exam was sent to students at the end of May. Students were told that McEvoy had to receive responses by June 12. The instruction said anyone who did not turn in the exam on time would receive a failing grade."
And presumably the tracking would allow her to check if any had been mailed on time but were delayed in delivery.
Right, so that clears up the postmark/received by confusion. But I still don't see the point of tracking. Tracking is important if the exam never arrives and the student needs to prove they sent it (or, rather, sent something). But if the exam does arrive, and has a postmark from before June 12th, then why would tracking matter? It was sent on time. It arrived late. If late arrival means an automatic fail, then tracking wouldn't change that; and if the important thing is an on-time dispatch, then a postmark should serve the purpose just as well as tracking. How does seeing what happened during the time in was in the USPS system change anything, once the exam arrives?
*One possibility occurred to me. Maybe the prof looked at the exam, saw that it was poor, (suggested by the eventual C-), and decided to reject it on the technicality of the lack of tracking rather than the more subjective grade to avoid pushback.
It's rather nit-picky and self-serving, but it would fit the established facts of the case.
*(A second possibility also occurred. It the grades were submitted
after the 12th, but
before the 16th, then she may not have wanted to go through the grade change process, and the lack of tracking made it justifiable. Like the previous explanation, nit-picky and legalistic, but it would fit.)
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 03, 2021, 05:24:42 AM
Quote from: ergative on August 03, 2021, 05:04:03 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 02, 2021, 04:00:00 PM
Quote from: clean on August 02, 2021, 03:46:59 PM
Another article shedding a sliver of light...
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2021/08/02/professor-sues-university-over-its-response-student%E2%80%99s-grade
This short note includes that the instructions noted that the assignment was made in May and that the instructions indicated that the professor must receive the assignment by a certain date or an F would be awarded. The student did not track the letter, though the professor had paid for that option.
The exam was sent to students at the end of May. Students were told that McEvoy had to receive responses by June 12. The instruction said anyone who did not turn in the exam on time would receive a failing grade."
And presumably the tracking would allow her to check if any had been mailed on time but were delayed in delivery.
Right, so that clears up the postmark/received by confusion. But I still don't see the point of tracking. Tracking is important if the exam never arrives and the student needs to prove they sent it (or, rather, sent something). But if the exam does arrive, and has a postmark from before June 12th, then why would tracking matter? It was sent on time. It arrived late. If late arrival means an automatic fail, then tracking wouldn't change that; and if the important thing is an on-time dispatch, then a postmark should serve the purpose just as well as tracking. How does seeing what happened during the time in was in the USPS system change anything, once the exam arrives?
*One possibility occurred to me. Maybe the prof looked at the exam, saw that it was poor, (suggested by the eventual C-), and decided to reject it on the technicality of the lack of tracking rather than the more subjective grade to avoid pushback.
It's rather nit-picky and self-serving, but it would fit the established facts of the case.
*(A second possibility also occurred. It the grades were submitted after the 12th, but before the 16th, then she may not have wanted to go through the grade change process, and the lack of tracking made it justifiable. Like the previous explanation, nit-picky and legalistic, but it would fit.)
You could be right, although I'd say that plan backfired. Submitting a grade change seems much simpler than suing the student and your university. I never understand people who make choices like this. I always just give the student the benefit of the doubt when there's some issue because
1. In general I would like to live in a world where people aren't harshly punished for making minor clerical or organizational errors. I've certainly screwed things up before and I've always really appreciated it when people could be flexible and kind. Since I'm in charge in my classes, this is a chance for me to pass that on.
2. Maybe I contributed to the confusion in some way, or could have been clearer.
3. It's usually easier to just grade the stupid thing and move on. There are times I have to just tell a student I can't do anything about their grade and just deal with angry and panicked emails and/or messages to my chair. It happens almost every semester, but it isn't an enjoyable part of my job. Unlike this professor, I don't want to have a grade appeal and court dates. I'd like to finish my grading and go take a nap on the couch.
Quote from: Caracal on August 03, 2021, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 03, 2021, 05:24:42 AM
*One possibility occurred to me. Maybe the prof looked at the exam, saw that it was poor, (suggested by the eventual C-), and decided to reject it on the technicality of the lack of tracking rather than the more subjective grade to avoid pushback.
It's rather nit-picky and self-serving, but it would fit the established facts of the case.
*(A second possibility also occurred. It the grades were submitted after the 12th, but before the 16th, then she may not have wanted to go through the grade change process, and the lack of tracking made it justifiable. Like the previous explanation, nit-picky and legalistic, but it would fit.)
You could be right, although I'd say that plan backfired. Submitting a grade change seems much simpler than suing the student and your university.
To be fair, the chronology of events seems to be:
1. Pro submits "F" based on no tracking.
2. Student contacts chair.
3. Chair requires grading of exam.
4. Prof submits "C-" for exam.
5. Student contacts
provost claiming grade was biased.
6. Provost responds to prof telling her the grade was "prejudiced" and authorized grade change to "pass".*
It seems the lawsuit
followed all of this, and it's probably more about the chair and provost siding with the student than about the actual grade assigned.
*No indication of whether the provost had any expertise in the relevant discipline to determine the validity of the grade.
This is such a bizarre story all around. A kinda-dumb-but-everything-is-weird-in-Covid-times policy is one thing. Suing a student for being mean is just wildly out of proportion; and suing a university for changing a passing grade to a 'pass' grade is. . . just . . . wtf, man? Here are the options:
1. Do nothing. Student gets a grade of 'pass' instead of C-. Move on with your life.
2. Sue the university (and student wtf) and lose. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job.
3. Sue the university (and student wtf) and win. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job. But the student publicly retracts the statement about how you're too biased to grade fairly, and their final exam grade is now C- instead of 'pass]. Congratulations?
In what universe is the benefit of [3]--if there is any benefit at all--worth the risk of [2], and worth the hassle compared to [1]? WTF, prof?
Quote from: ergative on August 03, 2021, 06:38:05 AM
This is such a bizarre story all around. A kinda-dumb-but-everything-is-weird-in-Covid-times policy is one thing. Suing a student for being mean is just wildly out of proportion; and suing a university for changing a passing grade to a 'pass' grade is. . . just . . . wtf, man? Here are the options:
1. Do nothing. Student gets a grade of 'pass' instead of C-. Move on with your life.
2. Sue the university (and student wtf) and lose. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job.
3. Sue the university (and student wtf) and win. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job. But the student publicly retracts the statement about how you're too biased to grade fairly, and their final exam grade is now C- instead of 'pass]. Congratulations?
In what universe is the benefit of [3]--if there is any benefit at all--worth the risk of [2], and worth the hassle compared to [1]? WTF, prof?
I agree, and I would have gone with [1]. However, it's pretty obvious that the chair and the provost were more concerned with appeasing the student than with any serious evaluation of the quality of the student's work. I imagine that's really the thing the prof can't let go. (Even though it does her no favours to pursue it.)
Quote from: marshwiggle on August 03, 2021, 06:48:07 AM
Quote from: ergative on August 03, 2021, 06:38:05 AM
This is such a bizarre story all around. A kinda-dumb-but-everything-is-weird-in-Covid-times policy is one thing. Suing a student for being mean is just wildly out of proportion; and suing a university for changing a passing grade to a 'pass' grade is. . . just . . . wtf, man? Here are the options:
1. Do nothing. Student gets a grade of 'pass' instead of C-. Move on with your life.
2. Sue the university (and student wtf) and lose. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job.
3. Sue the university (and student wtf) and win. You're a laughingstock, and now your university knows you're a nuisance and you've lost all possible pull or benefit of any doubt with them for anything you ever want to do in the future. Everyone knows that you're a complete loser who overreacts in wildly weird ways to really trivial events that are part-and-parcel of your job. But the student publicly retracts the statement about how you're too biased to grade fairly, and their final exam grade is now C- instead of 'pass]. Congratulations?
In what universe is the benefit of [3]--if there is any benefit at all--worth the risk of [2], and worth the hassle compared to [1]? WTF, prof?
I agree, and I would have gone with [1]. However, it's pretty obvious that the chair and the provost were more concerned with appeasing the student than with any serious evaluation of the quality of the student's work. I imagine that's really the thing the prof can't let go. (Even though it does her no favours to pursue it.)
Maybe? I can also imagine some other possibilities.
1. Provost asked the chair or someone else in the department to look at the exam and that person told the provost they thought the grade was unfair.
2. In the course of this whole thing, faculty member made comments about the student to the provost which convinced the provost that the faculty member wasn't likely to be fair to the student about the grade.
3. The professor has acted like such a lunatic throughout this whole thing that the provost has no faith in their judgement and thought the fairest thing is to just give the student a pass.
I agree that this is bizarre all around.
But what I find notable is that the class was about.... Business Law.
Stupid rules, inflexibility, frivolous lawsuits.... all the things that make business so great in America.
I have thought, repeatedly, over the last few years, that the things I read about in the news would be flagged by fiction editors as excessively obvious and heavy-handed in their intended irony. Reality needs another couple rounds of edits.
Quote from: ergative on August 03, 2021, 09:31:27 AM
I have thought, repeatedly, over the last few years, that the things I read about in the news would be flagged by fiction editors as excessively obvious and heavy-handed in their intended irony. Reality needs another couple rounds of edits.
The real world has always had that quality.
Yes.
A well-known children's book author who was a member of our congregation and attended our "Stone Soup" Bible Studies at the age of 89 once remarked, when discussing one of the more astounding events of the 1970s (think, Nixon, etc.), "It wouldn't be believed in fiction."
We figured she'd know if anyone did.
M.