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#31
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by dismalist - May 15, 2024, 03:34:16 PM
Quote from: jimbogumbo on May 15, 2024, 03:20:11 PM
Quote from: dismalist on May 15, 2024, 01:11:30 PMLooks to me like many campus administrations acted not in haste, but took far too long to call in the cops. Negotiate with trespassers and those interfering with normal operations and the stakes get raised. Give an inch, and the demonstrators take a foot. Have your buildings occupied next.

But so long as glass is not broken during the occupation, the Guardian will call it peaceful protests. No, that's not how it works.

Damn. Hit the wrong button.


Of course police should be called in when things are actually violent (UCLA) or a building is actually occupied (Portland State).

But dismalist...


What would you call "many"? I actually only know of three places where buildings were occupied. Everything else I've read about was outside, in public space.


I'm also curious for some examples from the non-Ivies. What I saw was militarized police being called out to secure what was essentially open space.



Not trespassing, and definitely not violent in the vast majority of instances. I think you (maybe) just don't like The Guardian.

I certainly do not like the Guardian!

The substance that's at stake is when can you break the law, which includes the property rights of the universities affected. Some want those property rights weakened, others want them to be exercised. We're arguing over ownership, as usual.

Put differently, the issue is not the issue. The issue is only the revolution.

As such, I don't give a shit how this turns out for any individual institution. We'll see how they fare afterwards.
#32
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by jimbogumbo - May 15, 2024, 03:20:11 PM
Quote from: dismalist on May 15, 2024, 01:11:30 PMLooks to me like many campus administrations acted not in haste, but took far too long to call in the cops. Negotiate with trespassers and those interfering with normal operations and the stakes get raised. Give an inch, and the demonstrators take a foot. Have your buildings occupied next.

But so long as glass is not broken during the occupation, the Guardian will call it peaceful protests. No, that's not how it works.

Damn. Hit the wrong button.


Of course police should be called in when things are actually violent (UCLA) or a building is actually occupied (Portland State).

But dismalist...


What would you call "many"? I actually only know of three places where buildings were occupied. Everything else I've read about was outside, in public space.


I'm also curious for some examples from the non-Ivies. What I saw was militarized police being called out to secure what was essentially open space.



Not trespassing, and definitely not violent in the vast majority of instances. I think you (maybe) just don't like The Guardian.
#33
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by marshwiggle - May 15, 2024, 03:19:32 PM
Quote from: jimbogumbo on May 15, 2024, 12:16:51 PMThis discussion is to me, bizarre. Only a handful of campuses had spaces that prevented students from getting services. And I'm sorry, having police with snipers (IU and OSU) is an amazing overreach even if no heads were bashed. If the Storm Front students were on the quad the cops should do nothing.

And marshwiggle, the name calling in the US would almost certainly be protected free speech in this instance.

Would that include things like racial slurs? Would it include calling people who sympathize with some cause murderers? I'm not clear on the law regarding this sort of thing, but my impression is that those sorts of things, (especially racial slurs), usually seem to be taken pretty seriously with more than a shrug that says"Oh well, nothing we can do about it".
#34
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by jimbogumbo - May 15, 2024, 03:12:37 PM
Quote from: dismalist on May 15, 2024, 01:11:30 PMLooks to me like many campus administrations acted not in haste, but took far too long to call in the cops. Negotiate with trespassers and those interfering with normal operations and the stakes get raised. Give an inch, and the demonstrators take a foot. Have your buildings occupied next.

But so long as glass is not broken during the occupation, the Guardian will call it peaceful protests. No, that's not how it works.
#35
The State of Higher Ed / Re: What's your price for a bu...
Last post by dismalist - May 15, 2024, 03:09:16 PM
It's useful to distinguish between "offer" price, or willingness to pay, which depends on how badly they want to get rid of you and how much cash they got to do it, and the "bid" price, or willingness to accept, which depends upon our personal idiosyncrasies and which is the subject of this thread.

It's hard to say anything systematic: Every institution will differ in its offer, and every individual will differ in his willingness to accept. Thus, the difference between the two -- the surplus -- will differ. One can fight over the surplus, but not more.

However, there is something that can be said about the apparently weird structure of the offered incentive. When the idea of paying faculty to leave started, it was often in the form of a cash emolument to leave. So, who took the option? Only the best faculty! They got new jobs right away. Employer was left with a bunch of losers. Thus, more sophistication: Pay only enough and in a form that the oldest leave. And so on.

There! Now you know why one can be unhappy. :-)

#36
General Discussion / Re: Movie Thread
Last post by secundem_artem - May 15, 2024, 02:39:21 PM
Saw American Fiction last night.  Deserved the Oscar buzz and awards.  I'd be curious if Black forumites have a different take on it.  Certainly, white people in the movie were portrayed mostly as none-too-bright virtue signaling fools.
#37
The State of Higher Ed / Re: What's your price for a bu...
Last post by secundem_artem - May 15, 2024, 02:35:40 PM
I've posted it in another thread, but 1-2 year's salary?  What Daddy Warbucks College are you folks working at?  In the past, Artem U has offered a bag of chips.  And if you really complain, they'll throw in a pack of gum. Seriously, the crap offers they've made to date would only be of interest to those given a terminal diagnosis by their physician with a 3 month life expectancy.
#38
General Academic Discussion / Re: Professional attire questi...
Last post by AJ_Katz - May 15, 2024, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: grammarmaiden on May 09, 2024, 02:02:37 PM@AJ_Katz, So sorry; I just finished posting final grades and came up for air (and to browse the fora).

Assests are great full-length hose. For knee-high hose, I've worn L'eggs Everyday (they come in a pink box) for decades. I'm usually able to wash and wear them many, many times over before they need to be replaced. Sadly, they are getting harder to find in stores, but Wal-Mart and Target near me have them on occasion. I've also found them on Amazon sometimes.


No problem!  I'm glad you saw my question and replied...  this is helpful!
#39
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by dismalist - May 15, 2024, 01:11:30 PM
Quote from: Hibush on May 15, 2024, 01:00:29 PMJusrisdictions vary as far as what city cops can do. In some places, if registered students are peacefully hanging out in a public space on campus, an order to leave would not be lawful. Campus administration needs to follow whatever due process and regulations apply to their campus. Some seem to have gotten it wrong by jumping in haste.

Looks to me like many campus administrations acted not in haste, but took far too long to call in the cops. Negotiate with trespassers and those interfering with normal operations and the stakes get raised. Give an inch, and the demonstrators take a foot. Have your buildings occupied next.

But so long as glass is not broken during the occupation, the Guardian will call it peaceful protests. No, that's not how it works.
#40
The State of Higher Ed / Re: Protests and police on cam...
Last post by Hibush - May 15, 2024, 01:00:29 PM
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 15, 2024, 11:04:24 AMAsk ourselves: if these were registered students who were members of Storm Front peacefully occupying a campus but refusing to leave after lawfully ordered to, what would we have the cops do?

Jusrisdictions vary as far as what city cops can do. In some places, if registered students are peacefully hanging out in a public space on campus, an order to leave would not be lawful. Campus administration needs to follow whatever due process and regulations apply to their campus. Some seem to have gotten it wrong by jumping in haste.