2020 Elections

[mamselle]

Prayers for everyone's safety. At least one person has been shot.

   https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/we-will-never-concede-trump-baselessly-asserts-voter-fraud-speech-n1253011

When you don't set limits on a seriously ill person, they take it as permission to enlarge the scope of their activities.

M.

   

[Parasaurolophus]

Biden's speech just now was pretty shit.

[Langue_doc]

Photos from the NYTimes

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/01/06/us/washington-dc-protests?name=styln-transition-live&region=TOP_BANNER&block=storyline_menu_recirc&action=click&pgtype=LegacyCollection&impression_id=05543b10-5064-11eb-a848-1908253b3d55&variant=1_Show

[apl68]

Prayers for everyone's safety. At least one person has been shot.

   https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/we-will-never-concede-trump-baselessly-asserts-voter-fraud-speech-n1253011

When you don't set limits on a seriously ill person, they take it as permission to enlarge the scope of their activities.

M.

Yes.  This is NOT going to result in anything like a successful coup attempt, but a lot of people could get hurt in the meantime.  I pray that the bloodshed will at least be very limited, as in last year's riots.

[marshwiggle]

It's a disgrace, and today's rioters should be imprisoned or shot.

(Also, this is happening in large part because of the way the George Floyd protests were treated by the Left, your media allies, and your elected representatives. If Fox News broke out a "fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron this afternoon, it would only be poetic justice.)

Does the whataboutism never stop?

Don't try to blame the left or BLM for this anti-democratic insurrection based on made up fraud, egged on by the President, his family, and his authoritarian allies in the Congress. Right wingers own this.

No, writingprof is correct. If rioting is condoned if it is for a supposedly "good cause", then every angry person is going to claim that their cause is right. If the rule of law is upheld consistently, then no-one gets to think they ought to be justified.

(The whole point about Trump contesting the election is that he won't accept the law when he doesn't like the result. If you claim the BLM protesters, ANITFA, etc. are justified in breaking the law, then you strengthen Trump's claim that is is OK when he does it.)

[jimbogumbo]

It's a disgrace, and today's rioters should be imprisoned or shot.

(Also, this is happening in large part because of the way the George Floyd protests were treated by the Left, your media allies, and your elected representatives. If Fox News broke out a "fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron this afternoon, it would only be poetic justice.)

Does the whataboutism never stop?

Don't try to blame the left or BLM for this anti-democratic insurrection based on made up fraud, egged on by the President, his family, and his authoritarian allies in the Congress. Right wingers own this.

No, writingprof is correct. If rioting is condoned if it is for a supposedly "good cause", then every angry person is going to claim that their cause is right. If the rule of law is upheld consistently, then no-one gets to think they ought to be justified.

(The whole point about Trump contesting the election is that he won't accept the law when he doesn't like the result. If you claim the BLM protesters, ANITFA, etc. are justified in breaking the law, then you strengthen Trump's claim that is is OK when he does it.)

My comments are in reference To today, not last night.

writingprof is correct except for:

No police in riot gear
No pepper spray
No gas
No arrests
No batons

And marshwiggle, I did not condone the violence at protests. I've lamented it. But to suggest an equivalency on the part of BLM with THE ACTIONS OF THE PRESIDENT is ludicrous.

And Parasaurolphus? Biden sounded like Cicero or MLK when contrasted with what the President posted on Twitter.

[alto_stratus]

And Parasaurolphus? Biden sounded like Cicero or MLK when contrasted with what the President posted on Twitter.

Yes, a breath of fresh air amidst the flatulence of the last 4 years.

[mahagonny]

Capitol Police, DHS goons nowhere to be seen. Looks like zero security. Stupid stupid stupid.

From a Twitter feed:

"Police tear gassed peaceful Democratic protestors so that Trump could hold a Bible for the cameras. But pro-Trump protestors have successfully breached the US Capitol building without so much as a single pepper ball. Funny how that works out."

The Trump protestors are being met by riot police firing pepper spray. 

Or maybe a failure to meet Trump protestors with tanks and machine gun fire is another example of misguided moderates "squandering an opportunity?"



Up to now I've generally been of the opinion that it would be best not to be too zealous about prosecuting the President and his officials for various crimes and alleged crimes.  But inciting a riot and a march on Congress, even as they're preparing to certify the election of his opponent?  This can't be read as anything other than a (half-witted) coup attempt.  He needs to go to jail for this.

He will claim he incited them only to demonstrate peacefully. How do you prove otherwise? He doesn't control everyone in the group. The gathering was intended to be peaceful, he will say. But he could, should be impeached.

[Parasaurolophus]

And Parasaurolphus? Biden sounded like Cicero or MLK when contrasted with what the President posted on Twitter.

Oh, sure, and in contrast with Trump's "we love you, you're very special". It just was nowhere near forceful enough for me. And ending it with the repetition of "there's nothing we can't do together" and "god bless the military" didn't help.

[jimbogumbo]

The Trump protestors are being met by riot police firing pepper spray. 


[/quote]

They were last night. Today, no riot gear, no gas or spray until they were inside the Capitol Building. And they had to know this was a real possibility.

[writingprof]

It's a disgrace, and today's rioters should be imprisoned or shot.

(Also, this is happening in large part because of the way the George Floyd protests were treated by the Left, your media allies, and your elected representatives. If Fox News broke out a "fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron this afternoon, it would only be poetic justice.)

Does the whataboutism never stop?

Don't try to blame the left or BLM for this anti-democratic insurrection based on made up fraud, egged on by the President, his family, and his authoritarian allies in the Congress. Right wingers own this.

No, writingprof is correct. If rioting is condoned if it is for a supposedly "good cause", then every angry person is going to claim that their cause is right. If the rule of law is upheld consistently, then no-one gets to think they ought to be justified.

(The whole point about Trump contesting the election is that he won't accept the law when he doesn't like the result. If you claim the BLM protesters, ANITFA, etc. are justified in breaking the law, then you strengthen Trump's claim that is is OK when he does it.)

My comments are in reference to today, not last night.

writingprof is correct except for:

No police in riot gear
No pepper spray
No gas
No arrests
No batons

I'm calling for police in riot gear. I'm calling for pepper spray. I'm calling for gas. I'm calling for arrests. I'm calling for batons. This is not whataboutism.

One can condemn today's mobs unequivocally while also explaining the cultural trends that have given rise to them. Or, anyway, a smart person can. You'll get there one day.

[Sun_Worshiper]

It's a disgrace, and today's rioters should be imprisoned or shot.

(Also, this is happening in large part because of the way the George Floyd protests were treated by the Left, your media allies, and your elected representatives. If Fox News broke out a "fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron this afternoon, it would only be poetic justice.)

Does the whataboutism never stop?

Don't try to blame the left or BLM for this anti-democratic insurrection based on made up fraud, egged on by the President, his family, and his authoritarian allies in the Congress. Right wingers own this.

No, writingprof is correct. If rioting is condoned if it is for a supposedly "good cause", then every angry person is going to claim that their cause is right. If the rule of law is upheld consistently, then no-one gets to think they ought to be justified.

(The whole point about Trump contesting the election is that he won't accept the law when he doesn't like the result. If you claim the BLM protesters, ANITFA, etc. are justified in breaking the law, then you strengthen Trump's claim that is is OK when he does it.)

My comments are in reference to today, not last night.

writingprof is correct except for:

No police in riot gear
No pepper spray
No gas
No arrests
No batons

I'm calling for police in riot gear. I'm calling for pepper spray. I'm calling for gas. I'm calling for arrests. I'm calling for batons. This is not whataboutism.

One can condemn today's mobs unequivocally while also explaining the cultural trends that have given rise to them. Or, anyway, a smart person can. You'll get there one day.

And yet you are not smart enough to engage in a discussion without resorting to insults. Based on our conversations on this forum, I don't think much of you as a political analyst, so maybe don't go patting yourself on the back for being such a smart person.

[spork]

Cultural trend:

Crowds of predominantly white men fly into DC yesterday.  Today, after Trump gives a speech encouraging them, they storm the Capitol while wearing MAGA hats and carrying Trump flags, as certain members of Congress are repeating Trump's lies.

Curfew starts momentarily. I doubt many, if any, will be arrested.

[Sun_Worshiper]

It's a disgrace, and today's rioters should be imprisoned or shot.

(Also, this is happening in large part because of the way the George Floyd protests were treated by the Left, your media allies, and your elected representatives. If Fox News broke out a "fiery but mostly peaceful protests" chyron this afternoon, it would only be poetic justice.)

Does the whataboutism never stop?

Don't try to blame the left or BLM for this anti-democratic insurrection based on made up fraud, egged on by the President, his family, and his authoritarian allies in the Congress. Right wingers own this.

No, writingprof is correct. If rioting is condoned if it is for a supposedly "good cause", then every angry person is going to claim that their cause is right. If the rule of law is upheld consistently, then no-one gets to think they ought to be justified.

(The whole point about Trump contesting the election is that he won't accept the law when he doesn't like the result. If you claim the BLM protesters, ANITFA, etc. are justified in breaking the law, then you strengthen Trump's claim that is is OK when he does it.)

Do you really think Trump and his supporters would have done things differently if BLM had never happened? Trump has been promising not to respect the electoral process since before he was even elected.

[dismalist]

Odd, Trump fights what can at best be called a rear guard action; the Democrats control the Senate https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2021-01-06/democrats-win-u-s-senate-as-ossoff-tops-perdue-in-georgia-sweep; and we continue shadow boxing with reality as though nothing has changed.

Maybe Trump is indeed all the Democrats have.