Author Topic: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25  (Read 12438 times)

Bbmaj7b5

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #270 on: April 11, 2021, 05:27:01 AM »

I agree. In fact, I would say most people probably agree. That's what my mother taught me half a century ago, and that's what generations of people have been taught. The frustrating reality now if that the loudest voices of wokeness will claim that the Golden Rule isn't enough*. Being "non-racist" isn't sufficient; you must be "anti-racist". Those loudest voices of wokeness could be ignored as extremists were it not for the media and many academics who encourage them. Still, I believe that most people will indeed continue to try and apply the Golden Rule even as the extremists call them nasty names. My hope is that enough of the younger generation growing up in this see identity politics for the toxic, illogical, and counter-productive mess that it is and reject it. I've seen several smart, articulate young people from all kinds of "identities" who express this, which is encouraging.

From my perspective, I think the real problem is that far too many people--including, but not limited to, people on the right--seem to think that racism requires some kind of nasty, racist intention. And that belief isn't just obviously false, it's awfully self-serving.

So, for example, if black people in the US are committing violent crime against white people at a higher rate (given their percentage of the population) than white people commit violent crime against black people, even though there may be no clear evidence of racial animus involved in the assaults, muggings, break-ins, home invasions, rapes and homicides, then white people are suffering the effects of racism, by your definition, and you and your anti-racism allies are very concerned about this? Because if they are, I'm still waiting to hear about it.
[on edit] Or for example if it turns out that democratic party's campaign platform of building up the black victimhood narrative is actually harmful to the morale and self esteem of black America, that would also be racism, even without malicious intent? And it wouldn't be difficult at all to understand it as selfish.
These things are not even considered by the anti-racism movement. It's all just manifesto and blind fervor.

The 'anti-racist' movement doesn't look remotely like a serious effort to study and reduce the effects of racism, even when considered in the broader definition. While it intends to tap into our respect for principles of right and wrong as they apply to race. And as regards its conquest of academia through the diversity staff and expanding their role, and the resulting intimidation of anyone who doesn't 100% buy it, it's nothing but a power play. That's why I don't take it seriously. No, worse than that, that's why I consider it a menace.

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Anselm

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #271 on: April 11, 2021, 07:01:51 PM »
Can anyone estimate when this trial will end? 
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marshwiggle

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #272 on: April 12, 2021, 05:31:06 AM »
Here's a perspective from last summer:
The Untold Truth About Police Brutality

It even includes suggestions for how to improve the lives of disadvantaged people near the end.
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nebo113

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #273 on: April 12, 2021, 06:14:26 AM »
Another black man killed by police in Twin Cities.  National Guard called out.  When will this end.

mahagonny

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #274 on: April 12, 2021, 06:17:47 AM »
Another black man killed by police in Twin Cities.  National Guard called out.  When will this end.
Here's a perspective from last summer:
The Untold Truth About Police Brutality

It even includes suggestions for how to improve the lives of disadvantaged people near the end.

Here's a partial list of people who have given the exact same news and advice about the calamity caused by the dissolution of the black family:
Glenn Loury
Barack Obama
Shelby Steele
John McWhorter
Derrick Z. Jackson
Candace Owens
Walter E. Williams
Larry Elder
Thomas Sowell

And so there's one more name to add to the list. Why would the media listen to her when they've ignored all of the above and many more, not to mention their own day-to-day observation?
See, if black America improves their lives through individual action and responsibility, they become more conservative. Conservativism being a by-product of responsible living. And the democratic party loses voters.

lightning

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #275 on: April 12, 2021, 04:42:20 PM »
Another black man killed by police in Twin Cities.  National Guard called out.  When will this end.
Here's a perspective from last summer:
The Untold Truth About Police Brutality

It even includes suggestions for how to improve the lives of disadvantaged people near the end.

Here's a partial list of people who have given the exact same news and advice about the calamity caused by the dissolution of the black family:
Glenn Loury
Barack Obama
Shelby Steele
John McWhorter
Derrick Z. Jackson
Candace Owens
Walter E. Williams
Larry Elder
Thomas Sowell

And so there's one more name to add to the list. Why would the media listen to her when they've ignored all of the above and many more, not to mention their own day-to-day observation?
See, if black America improves their lives through individual action and responsibility, they become more conservative. Conservativism being a by-product of responsible living. And the democratic party loses voters.

I agree. In fact, I would say most people probably agree. That's what my mother taught me half a century ago, and that's what generations of people have been taught. The frustrating reality now if that the loudest voices of wokeness will claim that the Golden Rule isn't enough*. Being "non-racist" isn't sufficient; you must be "anti-racist". Those loudest voices of wokeness could be ignored as extremists were it not for the media and many academics who encourage them. Still, I believe that most people will indeed continue to try and apply the Golden Rule even as the extremists call them nasty names. My hope is that enough of the younger generation growing up in this see identity politics for the toxic, illogical, and counter-productive mess that it is and reject it. I've seen several smart, articulate young people from all kinds of "identities" who express this, which is encouraging.

From my perspective, I think the real problem is that far too many people--including, but not limited to, people on the right--seem to think that racism requires some kind of nasty, racist intention. And that belief isn't just obviously false, it's awfully self-serving.

So, for example, if black people in the US are committing violent crime against white people at a higher rate (given their percentage of the population) than white people commit violent crime against black people, even though there may be no clear evidence of racial animus involved in the assaults, muggings, break-ins, home invasions, rapes and homicides, then white people are suffering the effects of racism, by your definition, and you and your anti-racism allies are very concerned about this? Because if they are, I'm still waiting to hear about it.
[on edit] Or for example if it turns out that democratic party's campaign platform of building up the black victimhood narrative is actually harmful to the morale and self esteem of black America, that would also be racism, even without malicious intent? And it wouldn't be difficult at all to understand it as selfish.
These things are not even considered by the anti-racism movement. It's all just manifesto and blind fervor.

The 'anti-racist' movement doesn't look remotely like a serious effort to study and reduce the effects of racism, even when considered in the broader definition. While it intends to tap into our respect for principles of right and wrong as they apply to race. And as regards its conquest of academia through the diversity staff and expanding their role, and the resulting intimidation of anyone who doesn't 100% buy it, it's nothing but a power play. That's why I don't take it seriously. No, worse than that, that's why I consider it a menace.

Guitar is a lovely hobby. You should pick it up.

Bbmaj7b5 makes a great suggestion, but if guitar doesn't do it for you, Mahagonny, fixing up old sports cars is also a lovely hobby--so is gardening or amateur landscaping.

apl68

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #276 on: April 13, 2021, 01:07:24 PM »
The officer responsible for the shooting in Minnesota has now resigned.  It's good that she didn't dig in her heels and put up a big fight.  Descriptions of the video of the incident indicate that it really was a grotesque mistake, so she may not face prosecution.  There will undoubtedly be litigation, though.

The department really needs to take a close look at what happened here, to prevent something like it happening again.  It can't be just shrugged off as an unfortunate incident.
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marshwiggle

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #277 on: April 13, 2021, 01:47:19 PM »
The officer responsible for the shooting in Minnesota has now resigned.  It's good that she didn't dig in her heels and put up a big fight.  Descriptions of the video of the incident indicate that it really was a grotesque mistake, so she may not face prosecution.  There will undoubtedly be litigation, though.

The department really needs to take a close look at what happened here, to prevent something like it happening again.  It can't be just shrugged off as an unfortunate incident.

Does her resignation mean she won't have legal representation provided by her union? That could make any litigation lead to bankruptcy.

As you say, it is concerning that drawing a gun and drawing a taser could be so similar, even given everything happening in the heat of the moment.
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mahagonny

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #278 on: April 14, 2021, 06:28:00 AM »
The officer responsible for the shooting in Minnesota has now resigned.  It's good that she didn't dig in her heels and put up a big fight.  Descriptions of the video of the incident indicate that it really was a grotesque mistake, so she may not face prosecution.  There will undoubtedly be litigation, though.

The department really needs to take a close look at what happened here, to prevent something like it happening again.  It can't be just shrugged off as an unfortunate incident.

Does her resignation mean she won't have legal representation provided by her union? That could make any litigation lead to bankruptcy.

As you say, it is concerning that drawing a gun and drawing a taser could be so similar, even given everything happening in the heat of the moment.

Do I hear you saying the presence of a union could be good, for anything but selfish, incompetent people? Well, golly.

But I think she could have had representation but chose not to, which was the right choice, given the embarrassment that should come from claiming she should keep her job. Of course the police are stressed out right now and they are human beings but you can't defend keeping a person who commits a blunder like that on the force working on the street.
For those of us who read what the crazy right has to say, just to keep our ear to the ground, this:
https://spectator.org/daunte-wright-shooting/

Parasaurolophus

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #279 on: April 14, 2021, 07:45:28 AM »


As you say, it is concerning that drawing a gun and drawing a taser could be so similar, even given everything happening in the heat of the moment.

I'll defer to people with experience, but prima facie this doesn't seem especially plausible to me. Presumably, you carry the two weapons on different sides of your body to reduce potential confusion. The gun-like tasers I've seen have all been bright yellow, presumably so you notice what you've drawn. Also, and crucially, my understanding is that tasers don't have a trigger safety, whereas pistols obviously do.

That's a fair few safety precautions to blow through on your way to a tragic mistake. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it seems pretty unlikely to me, and thus a claim that ought to be regarded with a high degree of suspicion until it can be established.
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mahagonny

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #280 on: April 14, 2021, 10:43:26 AM »


As you say, it is concerning that drawing a gun and drawing a taser could be so similar, even given everything happening in the heat of the moment.

I'll defer to people with experience, but prima facie this doesn't seem especially plausible to me. Presumably, you carry the two weapons on different sides of your body to reduce potential confusion. The gun-like tasers I've seen have all been bright yellow, presumably so you notice what you've drawn. Also, and crucially, my understanding is that tasers don't have a trigger safety, whereas pistols obviously do.

That's a fair few safety precautions to blow through on your way to a tragic mistake. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it seems pretty unlikely to me, and thus a claim that ought to be regarded with a high degree of suspicion until it can be established.

So we should be considering the possibility that Officer Kim Potter was hoping to quit her job suddenly in disgrace and receive death threats?

Parasaurolophus

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #281 on: April 14, 2021, 11:27:28 AM »

So we should be considering the possibility that Officer Kim Potter was hoping to quit her job suddenly in disgrace and receive death threats?

We shouldn't rush to buy the narrative that it was a tragic accident that could have happened to anybody.
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mahagonny

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #282 on: April 14, 2021, 11:47:29 AM »

So we should be considering the possibility that Officer Kim Potter was hoping to quit her job suddenly in disgrace and receive death threats?

We shouldn't rush to buy the narrative that it was a tragic accident that could have happened to anybody.
I don't believe there a narrative like that, not 'happening' to someone as in, you are sitting there and you are struck by lightning. Each party did certain things which prompted the other party to do things, including, quite possibly, mistakes. When the police say it was an accident I take them to mean she didn't want to shoot the victim with a bullet. I can't see any reason to doubt it. Although I have heard they are less likely to use lethal force on black suspects than white.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 11:57:15 AM by mahagonny »

apl68

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #283 on: April 14, 2021, 01:07:48 PM »
Prosecutors have now charged the ex-officer with manslaughter in the second degree.  They appear to be assuming culpable negligence.  Which this shooting certainly sounds like.
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nebo113

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Re: The murder of George Floyd in Minneapolis, MN last Monday, May 25
« Reply #284 on: April 15, 2021, 05:59:35 AM »
I know I'm gonna regret asking, mahog, but who is they and what's your source?

Although I have heard they are less likely to use lethal force on black suspects than white.