Hello:
First time posting, long time viewer/reader. I was wondering if anyone ever thought of creating a book from the old discussion posts (from the last forum, or even this one - probably good content to make a novel). I would imagine that permission/privacy would have to be granted and then the semi-anonymity would be lost, but just wondering (don't mean to start any fights or protest! - just wondering) It was so rich with good advice or just plain descriptions of predicaments that academics go through - especially for people beginning their careers in academia. The work-life balance section, and the posts about family, holidays, difficult co-workers was/is very helpful. I saw just recently an academic journal that went to archiving by offering years/volumes to be purchased as books. Anyway, just wanted to point out that the contributions here over the years would make a great book. There was a columnist in my field, who retired a few years back, who used to compose really great pieces about real life in the profession. Has anyone here thought of writing a book (fiction or non-fiction) about the life of a career academic? I am not seeking to do this myself. The reason why I bring this up is that when it was announced that the old platform would be replaced with this, I started to go back and read or reread posts. I felt that I had to do as much as possible before the switch just in case all was lost. So much good stuff. Unfortunately some bad exchanges too, but a really good place to get some insight!
Welcome.
I believe that unfortunately all of the old forum discussions are essentially irretrievable. As far as useful information goes, I've thought that certain topics would actually be great to have condensed.
I'd include:
- Jedi Mind Tricks
- Sane Course Policies That Make Your Life Easier
Those in particular contain some wisdom.
People would not grant permission. Many people didn't make the transition here because they were done with that period of their lives. Some long-standing forumites with thousands of posts asked to have those posts deleted instead of archived with the previous fora. They explicitly cited that they wanted an ephemeral experience and were surprised it had been so long.
As Marshwiggle wrote, certain threads would be worth consolidating and updating to be more current.
However, that's writing effort that will never count for anyone's job. The people who have the experience to do a great job are already fully booked with their real jobs that pay money or are enjoying other parts of retirement.
Getting something into publishable form is much, much more effort than simply banging out even a lengthy post with respectable research.
There was a very good article on the forum about 2 years before it was closed.
I'll have to poke around in my files, I think I saved it, or the link to it.
M.
Quote from: polly_mer on April 16, 2021, 05:49:12 AM
People would not grant permission. Many people didn't make the transition here because they were done with that period of their lives. Some long-standing forumites with thousands of posts asked to have those posts deleted instead of archived with the previous fora. They explicitly cited that they wanted an ephemeral experience and were surprised it had been so long.
As Marshwiggle wrote, certain threads would be worth consolidating and updating to be more current.
However, that's writing effort that will never count for anyone's job. The people who have the experience to do a great job are already fully booked with their real jobs that pay money or are enjoying other parts of retirement.
Getting something into publishable form is much, much more effort than simply banging out even a lengthy post with respectable research.
I would not grant permission. Publishing the posts would most certainly reveal the identities of several forumites,
Quote from: Langue_doc on April 16, 2021, 06:37:44 AM
Quote from: polly_mer on April 16, 2021, 05:49:12 AM
People would not grant permission. Many people didn't make the transition here because they were done with that period of their lives. Some long-standing forumites with thousands of posts asked to have those posts deleted instead of archived with the previous fora. They explicitly cited that they wanted an ephemeral experience and were surprised it had been so long.
As Marshwiggle wrote, certain threads would be worth consolidating and updating to be more current.
However, that's writing effort that will never count for anyone's job. The people who have the experience to do a great job are already fully booked with their real jobs that pay money or are enjoying other parts of retirement.
Getting something into publishable form is much, much more effort than simply banging out even a lengthy post with respectable research.
I would not grant permission. Publishing the posts would most certainly reveal the identities of several forumites,
I wouldn't mind, myself, but then my posts were probably not among the more useful and reprint-worthy.
Here is the article.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-complainers-online-with-the-chronicle-of-higher-education/
I transitioned from the old board to the new board. A number of fun, interesting, intelligent folks did drop off, while a few whiners and complainers and trolls stayed... so the ratio now isn't as good as it was.
And also, once a story has been told, it didn't always bear repeating so a lot of gems from the "Favorite Student Emails" genre disappeared.
Not sure how new people find us now since we are no longer on the CHE site.
Still, good things about the culture of this board have held. The directness and frankness; the willingness to answer questions; and the lively discussion that threads off initial questions continues.
Quote from: ciao_yall on April 16, 2021, 08:30:40 AM
Here is the article.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-complainers-online-with-the-chronicle-of-higher-education/
That article ages worse every time I encounter it. The wrong points are emphasized and the messages that aspiring academics need to encounter are buried.
Quote from: polly_mer on April 16, 2021, 10:50:53 AM
Quote from: ciao_yall on April 16, 2021, 08:30:40 AM
Here is the article.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-complainers-online-with-the-chronicle-of-higher-education/
That article ages worse every time I encounter it. The wrong points are emphasized and the messages that aspiring academics need to encounter are buried.
Yes, but there are names I do enjoy seeing again -- how is it I miss people I've never even met?
I felt as though the writer of the article caught the forum at a very high point, before some of the trolling became stifling and like a constant Hardanger.
I thought they did a lot of careful reading of many of my favorite threads and got the tone just right.
Those values may seem declasse at present, but I suspect they'll come around again.
M.
Thank you all for welcoming me with this first post and for responding! Marshwiggle - I did not realize until you mentioned in your reply to my post that it was announced here in August 2020 that the old site was not going to remain frozen and accessible - such a shame.
Polly-Mer True about the permission + people being "done with that period of their lives". Indeed with 10+ years for some, they are in different stages of their personal life and career - even 1 or 2 died, right? Also correct about labor and $ involved in such a task.
Ciao-Thanks for sharing that - I had not seen that article before now. And to shed light on "how new people find us": https://www.chronicle.com/page/chronicle-forums
Polly_Mer - too funny, your reaction to that news article
I started reading the old one around 2015, so a lot of what I was reading had been already years old, but really good insight and exchange of ideas. Thanks for keeping this going!
Quote from: The Future on April 16, 2021, 09:40:49 PM
Polly_Mer - too funny, your reaction to that news article
I started reading the old one around 2015, so a lot of what I was reading had been already years old, but really good insight and exchange of ideas. Thanks for keeping this going!
I started reading the fora in 2003 when posts from a thread would be printed in the weekly paper CHE as a way to show discussion on a topic. I joined in 2007.
That's one reason I know the shifts in higher ed that have occurred such that much of the detailed older advice is no longer valid, especially related to job searches, acceptable-job-conditions-that-always-surprise-novices, and STFU versus providing a necessary set of new eyes.
Even teaching tips haven't always aged well because they ignore changes in technology and student expectations that are now reasonable, even if they weren't reasonable even ten years ago when newer faculty were in college.
Hey Polly_Mer:
Okay, very good points and explanation of those BUT I still believe that even with some of the outdated or items that did not "age well". There were many things that I think were very important/meaningful no matter what age (like being an academic and dealing with holiday travel, aging parents, difficult co-workers, etc). Yes, the technology and methods have changed a lot in this time 2000-to the present, but I still think to have that whole old Forum intact would be wonderful - agree to disagree - I respect your point of view. By the way in the last year or so when I was reading so many older posts (5+ years and older), it did not bother me about the timeliness of the responses. Even with brand new posts, I do not always agree with some. Since the forum is electronic and was in this electronic storage format it would have even been nice to look at it 20 years from now and see the concern and/or responses to posts. If one was working at a university 100 or 200 years ago, perhaps they would live on campus, there would be more socials, etc. That old forum, in my opinion, not only helped so many share and help each other but also captured/gave a snapshot of the communication of that time period. And everyone can disagree with me and say that it is just dated and perhaps not useful. I do think there was enough there that was just timeless.
Quote from: The Future on April 17, 2021, 08:39:05 AM
Since the forum is electronic and was in this electronic storage format it would have even been nice to look at it 20 years from now and see the concern and/or responses to posts.
Ironically, with constant changes to data and storage formats, electronic documents are the most evanescent. A picture from 100 years ago, or a document from 400 years ago are still readable, but there are data formats from 40 years ago that are inaccessible. (Any idea how you'd read a 5 1/4 inch floppy disc?)
I'd have to fire up my old Compaq, but, yeah.
M.
P.S., Oh, and there are external hard drive readers for both 5" and 3" discs. I have one of each of those, too.
Quote from: mamselle on April 17, 2021, 10:08:42 AM
I'd have to fire up my old Compaq, but, yeah.
M.
P.S., Oh, and there are external hard drive readers for both 5" and 3" discs. I have one of each of those, too.
As in the words of Darth Vader, "Most impressive!"
How about 8 inch floppies (from about a decade before 5 1/4)? (We had those when I was in grad school.)
Quote from: The Future on April 17, 2021, 08:39:05 AM
There were many things that I think were very important/meaningful no matter what age (like being an academic and dealing with holiday travel, aging parents, difficult co-workers, etc).
Current discussion with people who can help now is more valuable than preserving everything. If we're too slow, then you can check on reddit for several other higher ed discussion boards with years and years of those topics.
Books also exist on all those topics, even for academics.
We don't need to hoard everything.
There is also the 'Dear Forums ...': column on the CHE site, which has archived some of the discussions. I'm not sure how much longer they will keep those pages up.
Read the thread topic blearily through half-open eyes and took the "of" for "on."
That would be interesting.
M.
One way around privacy concerns and copyright issues would be to present the bulk of the insights from a god's-eye-view, divorced from usernames (and with slight editing for detail which might out someone on their own). At that point, though, you end up with something closer to Karen Kelsky's book and lose out on some of the fun of a document that grew out of an actual community. You could leaven it with stuff for which you've obtained permission from the members involved, of course, and that would look a lot like the article about the CHE Fora upthread.
Shrug.
I think it's a worthwhile endeavour! But it would be a decent spot of work to make it half-decent.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on April 18, 2021, 01:14:30 AM
I think it's a worthwhile endeavour! But it would be a decent spot of work to make it half-decent.
It would be a huge amount of work and would be competing with so many other adequate existing books and extended websites with articles that still have discussion.
If The Future wants to write the book, then go ahead, but this seems more like a fantasy of how book writing and publishing works than identifying an unfilled niche to help academics or seeing a best-selling entertainment opportunity.
Ah, the floppy disk. I came across some a month or so ago and went on the Amazon site to look for an adapter or external device - yes, these are available. I guess archivists and forensic people would use these. I was unaware of the Reddit site for academics. I think the way I came upon the CHE Forum was by reading an article and there was a link to the Forum by it. Other newspapers (and some still do - like USA Today) have a discussion post section for each article. Anyway, it is nice to hear everyone's thoughts on the preservation/non-preservation of the posts. I recall that there was a tv news piece on there being a cultural historical void because of the disappearance of online content. Yes, if anyone did want to create a book from the Forum posts (fiction or non-fiction) or even use it as a study for a character in a movie or novel, I'm sure there would be ways. I was just wondering what others thought on the very intimate broad snapshot that the Forum gave to the profession as well as the very helpful advice - no matter how dated. My intention in posting this was to have a conversation about the topic - and it does seem like there are varied views on it. Again, thanks for engaging in my first discussion post.