The Fora: A Higher Education Community

The bottom dropped out on me this morning as I was walking to work.  If it had started only 20 minutes later I'd have made it to work safely.  Twenty minutes earlier and I'd have known to drive instead.  As it is, my legs and feet are pretty well soaked.  I'm just glad I made it okay through the thunder and lightning, which I would not have chanced if I'd known it was that imminent. 

Looks like pretty much nothing but rain, rain, and more rain in the extended forecast.  Coming on top of everything we've already had, I'm afraid we're going to be looking at a real problem for the local economy, and possibly some flooding in places.

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 02, 2024, 09:10:09 AM

Quote from: apl68 on May 02, 2024, 07:45:35 AMWonder whether those non-students spotted among the demonstrators are actually "professional agitators" from out of town, or simply local lewd fellows of the baser sort taking an opportunity to blow off some steam by joining a protest?  Either way, if the protest's organizers can't keep such people from co-opting their protest for their own purposes, they'd do well to reconsider the wisdom of these demonstrations.

I was on a "liberal" campus during the first Gulf War when we only had, like, a week to protest.  The students managed not to damage anything, but I became convinced that their motivation was not pacificism but the excitement and adventure of the protest.  I was a bit older than most undergrads, so while I went to see the show I wasn't terribly impressed. 

What we ended up with were a number of elderly hippies stoking on the disruption. I'm sure someone has done scholarship on this aspect of American college life, and I just wonder how much protest is genuine and how much is the perception on students' part that this is how they are supposed to object and express themselves.  Certainly it is okay to support Gaza in this situation and call on Israel to behave in a civilized manner (without being accused of antisemitism), I just wonder how much actual good it does for students to wreck their own campuses.

I remember an editorial cartoon from the Rodney King riots. It showed a big white guy in front of a smashed store window with a television on his shoulder, and he was shouting "Justice for Rodney King!" I thought that about summed it up.

During the George Floyd riots in 2020, it was the same thing with the looters; no-one gave a flip whether the stores where white- or black-owned. They were just thieves who wanted free stuff.

I would imagine at any sort of protest, from any part of the political spectrum, many (if not most) of the most violent agitators have little or no connection to the cause, but just want to steal and destroy.

Brown's administration negotiated dispersal on the condition that they put a divestment proposal to the Trustees. That seems like a pragmatic agreement. I expect the trustees will vote no on the proposal. Probably in the summer when the students are more widely dispersed.

Approximately 30% of the so-called protestors were not affiliated with the university; it isn't clear how they were able to enter campus which has been closed to students and employees.

QuoteLocks, Chains, Diversions: How Columbia Students Seized Hamilton Hall
Some of those arrested during the pro-Palestinian demonstration were outsiders, who appeared to be unaffiliated with the school, according to an analysis of Police Department data.

QuoteBut the takeover of Hamilton Hall was a new turning point. The university decided to call in the police to clear the building — drawing both harsh criticism and praise, and raising new questions about who, exactly, was behind the growing unrest.

The people who took over the building were an offshoot of a larger group of protesters who had been camping out on campus in an unauthorized pro-Palestinian demonstration. On Tuesday night, more than 100 of them — people inside the hall along with others outside on campus and those beyond Columbia's gates — were arrested.

QuoteOn Thursday, Mayor Adams and Edward A. Caban, the police commissioner, released a statement saying that of the 112 people arrested at Columbia, 29 percent were not affiliated with the school. That percentage was similar to the findings of a Times analysis of a Police Department list of people who were arrested that night.

At City College, north of Columbia in Manhattan, 170 individuals were arrested, and about 60 percent of them were not affiliated with the school, the statement said.

According to the Times analysis, most of those arrested on and around Columbia's campus appeared to be graduate students, undergraduates or people otherwise affiliated with the school.

At least a few, however, appeared to have no connection to the university, according to The Times's review of the list. One was a 40-year-old man who had been arrested at antigovernment protests around the country, according to a different internal police document. His role in the organization of the protest is still unclear.

QuoteThe day after New York City police officers stormed into the building through a second-floor window and rooted out the protesters from Hamilton Hall, new details emerged about both the takeover of the building and the operation to reclaim it. The details revealed a 17-hour-long student occupation that was destructive and damaging to property, amateurish, but in some respects, carefully organized.

As for the demands, initially the protests were in support of Gaza. The current demands call for divesting from companies that support Israel. Scroll down several paragraphs for a list of demands and why universities are unable to comply with these.

QuoteThe difficulty administrators face stems in large part from one of the demands that student protesters are making: that schools end financial ties with companies supporting Israel. Students at Columbia and elsewhere also want universities to publicly disclose all of their investments, to ensure accountability for divestment.

For universities, considering those demands raises a host of problems, both logistical and political, that may make acquiescing nearly impossible.

Subsequently the demands included divesting from a long list of companies including Google and Airbnb.

QuoteIn a written proposal submitted last December, activists at Columbia listed a number of companies they wanted the school to divest from, including Google, which has a large contract with the Israeli military, and Airbnb, which advertises listings on Israeli settlements in the West Bank. It also named the university's indirect holdings in companies like Caterpillar, a maker of armored bulldozers for the Israeli government, which Columbia owns in an exchange-trade fund managed by BlackRock, the world's largest asset manager.

Divesting from Israel is illegal in NY:

QuoteIn addition, most states, including New York, also have laws that bar public institutions from divesting from Israel, or ban them from entering into contracts with companies that call for boycotts of Israel, to guard against the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement that targets Israel. Opponents see the movement as antisemitic for singling out the world's only Jewish-majority state.

There are also technical reasons that divestment would be more difficult now than it was following protests in decades past.

I just found out that a former colleague attended a Puddles Pity Party concert.

Primary sources may be outside your scope, but our library has an online archive, Creation of Israel: British Foreign Office Correspondence on Palestine and Transjordan, 1940-1948 (Module 43), that you might find useful. More info: https://proquest.libguides.com/historyvault/israel1940

Quote from: Volhiker78 on May 02, 2024, 06:57:01 PMI went to my 45th Reunion and had a good time.  I'm introverted but made an effort to talk to people that I knew and also introduce myself to people I didn't know.  I think 🧐 general rules like staying away from hot topics (politics) in conversations,  watching your alcohol intake, and not expecting too much in regards to emotional connections apply. 

45th makes sense for an academic. No academic wants to attend their 10th reunion, because who wants to say that they are still in school.

I went to my 45th Reunion and had a good time.  I'm introverted but made an effort to talk to people that I knew and also introduce myself to people I didn't know.  I think 🧐 general rules like staying away from hot topics (politics) in conversations,  watching your alcohol intake, and not expecting too much in regards to emotional connections apply. 

Quote from: Parasaurolophus on May 02, 2024, 10:59:52 AMMore on T1, will finish reading for my referee report.

Did a good chunk of the first, managed the second by the skin of my teeth.

The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution.