The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: the_geneticist on July 07, 2023, 08:06:17 AM

Quote from: marshwiggle on July 07, 2023, 05:38:27 AM

Quote from: Hegemony on July 06, 2023, 04:54:24 PMNever teach synchronous online. Only teach asynchronous.

Synchronous online teaching is like a movie made by recording live theatre. It has neither the immediacy of the live performance, nor the polish of the movie which comes from more freedom around sets, costumes, editing, etc.

Just. Say. No.

Can I steal this metaphor?  Think I'll be needing to use it in the not-so-distant future.

I'd be willing to offer a *small* online lab if I can have $$ to send a "lab kit" to each student, TAs for grading, and several months to build the course.  And it would be asynchronous, but not self-paced.

During COVID, I found a vendor who custom created kits for my course for about $100 each which the students purchased and then kept after the course. That worked pretty well. (Since there was no textbook for the course, that cost wasn't out of line with what they'd spend if there was a required text.)

I need a quick reality check: Is anyone else receiving online student comments about students not having time to check D2L email . . . for their online courses?

I've tried apps like Remind and GroupMe, but students would not respect time limitations (as in they would text at 3:00 in the morning multiple times expecting an immediate reply).

I know email is kind of old school, but WTF?

Quote from: fishbrains on July 09, 2023, 03:46:48 PMI need a quick reality check: Is anyone else receiving online student comments about students not having time to check D2L email . . . for their online courses?

I've tried apps like Remind and GroupMe, but students would not respect time limitations (as in they would text at 3:00 in the morning multiple times expecting an immediate reply).

I know email is kind of old school, but WTF?

It's not just you. I'm really getting tired of teaching online. A student emailed me because stu forgot to take the past two quizzes. I post reminders, they have an online calendar and it's in the syllabus. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I also have students who don't know how to use their email...

Quote from: evil_physics_witchcraft on July 09, 2023, 04:31:11 PM

Quote from: fishbrains on July 09, 2023, 03:46:48 PMI need a quick reality check: Is anyone else receiving online student comments about students not having time to check D2L email . . . for their online courses?

I've tried apps like Remind and GroupMe, but students would not respect time limitations (as in they would text at 3:00 in the morning multiple times expecting an immediate reply).

I know email is kind of old school, but WTF?

It's not just you. I'm really getting tired of teaching online. A student emailed me because stu forgot to take the past two quizzes. I post reminders, they have an online calendar and it's in the syllabus. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I also have students who don't know how to use their email...

It's a hole with no bottom. The more measures you take to save them from themselves, the more they're going to expect to be rescued.

It's like global thermonuclear war; the only winning move is not to play.

In this post-covid era, are schools/ school adminsicritters now essentially expecting profs to accept such demands?

Quote from: kaysixteen on July 10, 2023, 07:29:08 PMIn this post-covid era, are schools/ school adminsicritters now essentially expecting profs to accept such demands?

Yes.  Because, at least at my place, students have absolutely no problem texting/emailing the president/VP/dean/chair or all of the above at the same time to complain about their lack of a true Burger King experience. And none of those people could give a rosy, red crap.  It's the end times.

Quote from: Antiphon1 on July 10, 2023, 08:49:42 PM

Quote from: kaysixteen on July 10, 2023, 07:29:08 PMIn this post-covid era, are schools/ school adminsicritters now essentially expecting profs to accept such demands?

Yes.  Because, at least at my place, students have absolutely no problem texting/emailing the president/VP/dean/chair or all of the above at the same time to complain about their lack of a true Burger King experience. And none of those people could give a rosy, red crap.  It's the end times.

And the above-mentioned admincritters promptly send off emails to faculty insisting that they cave in to these demands, however unreasonable. I once had an admincritter--not the chair--demand that I comply with a student's mid-semester request that I change the grading policy that was explicitly stated in the syllabus because Stu thought it was so u.n.f.a.i.r! Now we have to make our "horses" drink in addition to leading them to the water all because admincritters tell the students that their professors will "work with them" rather than advising them to read their syllabi, come to class, and complete their assignments.

Quote from: Antiphon1 on July 10, 2023, 08:49:42 PM

Quote from: kaysixteen on July 10, 2023, 07:29:08 PMIn this post-covid era, are schools/ school adminsicritters now essentially expecting profs to accept such demands?

Yes.  Because, at least at my place, students have absolutely no problem texting/emailing the president/VP/dean/chair or all of the above at the same time to complain about their lack of a true Burger King experience. And none of those people could give a rosy, red crap.  It's the end times.

I actually had this happen last semester. Stu finally admits to cheating and emails the University President asking for mercy. Thankfully, the Pres declined stu's request. Really egregious...

I am working with a "new to me" lab TA. 

They.
Are.
So.
Slow.
At.
Everything.

The training/prep meetings are typically <2 hours because TAs are typically much faster than undergraduate students at following protocols.  Not this one.  And grad stu didn't even do it correctly.  We are going to have a chat about "this is why you can't be on your phone during this meeting".

Freshpeeps, I know you are eager to enroll, but there is a procedure to follow to transfer in your AP etc. scores and evaluate if course you took elsewhere can count for the the prerequisite you are asking me to wave. I know you got pre-enrollment period emails explaining those procedures, which you could have completed before registration opened. No, I'm not going to take your word for it and over-ride the requirement for you in the system. No, telling me how you've been waiting your whole life to learn this topic won't sway me. Follow the procedure, then the system will let you enroll. This class has a super high cap that's never reached anyway.

And the above-mentioned admincritters promptly send off emails to faculty insisting that they cave in to these demands, however unreasonable. I once had an admincritter--not the chair--demand that I comply with a student's mid-semester request that I change the grading policy that was explicitly stated in the syllabus because Stu thought it was so u.n.f.a.i.r! Now we have to make our "horses" drink in addition to leading them to the water all because admincritters tell the students that their professors will "work with them" rather than advising them to read their syllabi, come to class, and complete their assignments.
[/quote]

And once a faculty member does "work with the student" in a one-off arrangement, the door is open for complaints of bias if every other student doesn't get the same deal.

Quote from: Langue_doc on July 11, 2023, 05:44:30 AM

Quote from: Antiphon1 on July 10, 2023, 08:49:42 PM

Quote from: kaysixteen on July 10, 2023, 07:29:08 PMIn this post-covid era, are schools/ school adminsicritters now essentially expecting profs to accept such demands?

Yes.  Because, at least at my place, students have absolutely no problem texting/emailing the president/VP/dean/chair or all of the above at the same time to complain about their lack of a true Burger King experience. And none of those people could give a rosy, red crap.  It's the end times.

And the above-mentioned admincritters promptly send off emails to faculty insisting that they cave in to these demands, however unreasonable. I once had an admincritter--not the chair--demand that I comply with a student's mid-semester request that I change the grading policy that was explicitly stated in the syllabus because Stu thought it was so u.n.f.a.i.r! Now we have to make our "horses" drink in addition to leading them to the water all because admincritters tell the students that their professors will "work with them" rather than advising them to read their syllabi, come to class, and complete their assignments.

And once a faculty member does "work with a student" the door is open for every other student to initiate a bias complaint with HR if the same deal is not offered to everyone in a class.

And "new to me" TA and I also need to talk about the fact that they are making extra work for themselves & the students.
Yes, you should take attendance.  No, you should not use time in class to create an "attendance assignment" for them to complete.  WHY?!?
Yes, you need to grade their worksheets.  You should use the answer key.  It's OK to give full points for an answer that is "good enough" when other students gave answers that were better.  Do not make up reasons to take off points!
Yes, you should give a brief overview of where to find reagents/equipment/safely dispose of things.  No, do NOT "go through the protocol with them".  They are expected to read it before class.  You reading it to them will make them LESS prepared next time since they won't bother to read in advance. Trust me on this one.  Or not.  Just don't do it!

Quote from: evil_physics_witchcraft on July 09, 2023, 04:31:11 PM

Quote from: fishbrains on July 09, 2023, 03:46:48 PMI need a quick reality check: Is anyone else receiving online student comments about students not having time to check D2L email . . . for their online courses?

I've tried apps like Remind and GroupMe, but students would not respect time limitations (as in they would text at 3:00 in the morning multiple times expecting an immediate reply).

I know email is kind of old school, but WTF?

It's not just you. I'm really getting tired of teaching online. A student emailed me because stu forgot to take the past two quizzes. I post reminders, they have an online calendar and it's in the syllabus. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I also have students who don't know how to use their email...

Hmm, I can't say I really end up having to deal with any fallout from this stuff. Stuff like reading quizzes are always pretty low stakes in my classes, and I drop a couple of them. When students ask if they can make them up, I just tell them that. If there's really a good reason, I'll make an exception but it comes up pretty rarely. I get the occasional student making unreasonable or ridiculous requests, but they aren't the ones who ever complain to anyone.

Quote from: Caracal on July 13, 2023, 05:09:31 AMHmm, I can't say I really end up having to deal with any fallout from this stuff. Stuff like reading quizzes are always pretty low stakes in my classes, and I drop a couple of them. When students ask if they can make them up, I just tell them that. If there's really a good reason, I'll make an exception but it comes up pretty rarely. I get the occasional student making unreasonable or ridiculous requests, but they aren't the ones who ever complain to anyone.

I do the same thing,, dropping x number of low-stakes quiz items.  I find a few students will blow off assignments up to (or exceeding) x, and THEN want a break because [EVENT] really justifies getting a break.

OK Kiddo, you can use your freebie for [EVENT], but you'll have to eat the zero on the other trivial misses.

Some of my students can't fathom dropping their lowest grade ALWAYS helps them. I've had some say "but I don't want to drop a B on a quiz, that's a good grade!"

Quote from: FishProf on July 13, 2023, 07:30:30 AM

Quote from: Caracal on July 13, 2023, 05:09:31 AMHmm, I can't say I really end up having to deal with any fallout from this stuff. Stuff like reading quizzes are always pretty low stakes in my classes, and I drop a couple of them. When students ask if they can make them up, I just tell them that. If there's really a good reason, I'll make an exception but it comes up pretty rarely. I get the occasional student making unreasonable or ridiculous requests, but they aren't the ones who ever complain to anyone.

I do the same thing,, dropping x number of low-stakes quiz items.  I find a few students will blow off assignments up to (or exceeding) x, and THEN want a break because [EVENT] really justifies getting a break.

OK Kiddo, you can use your freebie for [EVENT], but you'll have to eat the zero on the other trivial misses.

Some of my students can't fathom dropping their lowest grade ALWAYS helps them. I've had some say "but I don't want to drop a B on a quiz, that's a good grade!"

Oh god, I had a student who complained that their 100 on a quiz was being dropped. They just couldn't understand how this worked.