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Academic Discussions => General Academic Discussion => Topic started by: hester on December 24, 2022, 03:49:51 PM

Title: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 24, 2022, 03:49:51 PM
Hello,

  Taught a class as a last minute hire. Dept chair gave me vibe they didn't want to hire me and ran ads for my replacement throughout term.
Term ends a few students don't like grades and appeal.
I was essentially fired (been replaced) yet I'm being expected to go through appeal process.

In your opinion, at what point does contractual obligation end.

I'm not sure if I'll even have a college email much longer.

Thanks for feedback.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: downer on December 24, 2022, 04:37:12 PM
Once you get your last pay check, you don't need to check your email again.
There is no obligation on your part to communicate any further. It's the chair's problem.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 24, 2022, 06:12:35 PM
If your faculty handbook states that you should be available for such matters to be settlled, then technically you should be. But in reality, they cant fire you twice and already are trash for a recommendation. But, IMHO,
if they need your help with anything (probably not if everything is on LMS), then just give them what they need.
Beyond that, any real work should and will be done by the current faculty. So be cooperative, but do nothing else.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Wahoo Redux on December 24, 2022, 07:40:58 PM
Ef'em.

Start looking for an employer that appreciates you. 

I just finished what is (probably) my last semester of teaching because of budget cuts.  I am no longer even checking email.

Best of luck out there.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: research_prof on December 25, 2022, 01:00:50 AM
What does your offer letter (or any other communication that you received from the university) say? For example, when I resigned, I received an email about 10 days before the semester ends (I had resigned at the beginning of the semester with an effective date before the next semester begins) from admins with a letter changing my resignation date to an earlier date that was convenient for the university. So, right after this date, I switched my affiliation on LinkedIn and my website to my new university.

Universities do what works for them the best (backdating resignation dates, etc.). Do what's best for you. After the official end date of your appointment, you are under no obligation to do anything for this university (it is pure volunteering work).
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 25, 2022, 08:56:06 AM
The OP is an adjunct, the resignation dates are unlikely to be very significant, save for maybe computer and library access (although with modern availability of services, this probably doesnt matter as much as even 10 years ago).

Anyway, as i suggested before, very limited cooperation on getting the grade info if they even need it is really all you should do.

By the way, most offer letters, especially for adjuncts, say nothing. Details are in faculty handbooks, college by laws, course catalogs, etc.. i know its a weird quirk of academia to expect everyone to read thos crud, but thats the way it is.

In any case if you choose to f off, they cant fire you twice.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 25, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Thanks for the feedback. The replies are what I expected. It makes one wonder the role of an adjunct has on campus. We really shouldn't be communicating with students if we are no longer teaching or in adjunct limbo ( still have an email but no courses).
Requests about grades and LOR's should be limited.

Maybe explain to students you are no longer teaching and not sure if administration wants me in contact with students.

I don't see this as ignoring responsibilities. It's more of a CYA in the event admin does in fact tell you stop communicating.

I heard of an adjunct/ advisor in limbo. This person was still offering guidance to students about course flows / required courses.

They never got around to officially firing said person. A dean emailed adjunct formally demanding they stop communicating and then the email account was finally shut off.

This person felt like a creepy fool. Adjunct thought they were being of service. " I serve the students not the institution".

That's a nice and altruistic way of looking at things until you get threatened with a cease and desist notice.

I guess I'm jaded from seeing these things.

It's apparent adjuncts work for school and should not be heavily engaged with students or the campus.

I've seen adjuncts do committee work trying to ingratiate themselves into fabric of school. They end up with no courses but still obligated to be on campus a few hours each week for events. One adjunct in this situation told me the dept chair asked why they were on campus in front of a bunch of faculty. It was beyond embarrassing. This adjunct tried to politely explain that were helping with career services/ internships. DC in the most socially tone deaf manner replied " I just hired a ft person for that role. Why are you involved?" This exchange was in front of 25 or so people ( industry employers and faculty this adjunct brought in for event) Im sure we all have these stories.



In closing, a fair amount of cynicism does help to protect ourselves while adjuncting.

Thanks again for the support!
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 25, 2022, 10:35:43 AM
If students contact you about their final grades, you can explain as much as you care to. If they protest, send them a link to the appeals process, assuming there is one, and then just be done with it unless the school contacts you. If they (students) contact you in a year, either dont reply or just tell them that at this point theyd have to contact the registrar or whomever deals with this crud.

LORs are totally up to you. Many of folks write LORS for people after either the writer or the job/student candidate has left the original school. Keep any contact to just discuss whether or not you are doing the LOR. I dont think a school can really stop you from ALL contact unless it was an expressed term of your termination or non renewal.
But be sensible. If you contact any student, dont discuss why you left or opinions on school policy.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Langue_doc on December 25, 2022, 12:40:23 PM
Requiring adjuncts to work in any capacity after the end of their contract is probably a violation of labor laws. You shouldn't even need to check your email. If you do need to communicate with students, just let them know that you are no longer an employee of that institution so will not be checking your email or will be available to discuss their grades.

You are no longer on the payroll, so do not volunteer your time! Forward all student requests and complaints (other than LORs) to the chair.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 25, 2022, 01:30:48 PM
You are correct about labor laws. Never thought of that.

If they ask me to do a task, it's arguably illegal. We are the Uber drivers of higher Ed.

Thanks for that line of thinking!
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: marshwiggle on December 25, 2022, 03:15:05 PM
Quote from: Ruralguy on December 25, 2022, 10:35:43 AM
If students contact you about their final grades, you can explain as much as you care to. If they protest, send them a link to the appeals process, assuming there is one, and then just be done with it unless the school contacts you. If they (students) contact you in a year, either dont reply or just tell them that at this point theyd have to contact the registrar or whomever deals with this crud.

LORs are totally up to you. Many of folks write LORS for people after either the writer or the job/student candidate has left the original school. Keep any contact to just discuss whether or not you are doing the LOR.

Just one point: Sometimes institutions to whom LORs are sent want them on university letterhead. In that case, you're out of luck. (Or rather, the student is.)
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 25, 2022, 05:10:18 PM
The LOR thing is minor. Its unlikely to come up much, and if it does, its totally optional.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 25, 2022, 05:17:42 PM
Its not illegal for them to ask for work product from your time there even if it requires a bit of effort to dredge up an old set of grades or what have you. You ate under no obligation to do anything but that. You can brush off old students, and no faculty will be in contact. If a student protests a grade, chair may ask you  for a justification, but they might not bother for the same reasons you gave...you dont work there, so why should they bother you?
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on December 25, 2022, 05:57:58 PM
You have no obligation to the school or department or the students once you have finished your duties for the semester. This includes submitting final grades to the registrar, and depending on the school, may include submitting your final gradebook and final exam to the department or other such thing. At some schools I have taught, all adjuncts were required to copy or print out the  course gradebook, which listed exam grades, etc. Other schools don't care and do not require anything besides the final grades.

At my school, the role of the professor (any professor--full-time or adjunct) in a grade appeal is to explain and justify the grade. After that it goes to the chair, and after that, the dean (and after that to the appropriate senate committee, then the provost, etc.)

If I were a chair and a student contested a grade in a course taught by a former adjunct, I might reach out to the former adjunct and ask if he could provide a one-paragraph explanation/justification for the grade. I would couch it as a request, making clear it is not required, etc. This is also, to some degree, a matter of courtesy to the professor. Of course, if I thought the professor was totally off base I might just make an executive decision and grade the student's work myself.

For what it is worth, this is the same view I would have for a former full-timer as well. Once somebody is no longer working, they are no longer working. Although, sometimes it doesn't hurt to ask for help if necessary.

Of course, you have no obligation to even open any email sent to you form a former employer. If you really do not care about ever teaching there again, or the chair's opinion of you, just ignoring the situation might be the best thing.

Before my current job, I taught as an adjunct at more than a dozen schools over about 20 years. By definition, each of these has ended (or will end) at some point or another. I usually set the automatic messaging on my campus email to say something like I am no longer working here, and advise them to contact the department chair for any questions.

(At the same time, in my more than 20 years of teaching, I have never had a formal grade complaint. So having two in one semester seems to indicate something--perhaps about the culture of the school.)
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Langue_doc on December 25, 2022, 06:42:00 PM
Quote from: hester on December 25, 2022, 01:30:48 PM
You are correct about labor laws. Never thought of that.

If they ask me to do a task, it's arguably illegal. We are the Uber drivers of higher Ed.

Thanks for that line of thinking!

I'll send you a PM either tomorrow or on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 26, 2022, 06:10:05 AM
Hi,

  Funny you mentioned culture at college.
Every interaction I had with staff on campus was less than pleasant.

There were emails from fac Senate about bad morale and everyone hating each other.

  The students in this class did not perform well and the few complaints stated I was ruining their 4.0 gpa.

Wearing earbuds and texting in a class the entire time, bombing tests does not warrant a 4.0 gpa.

I think there is a very bad culture from top to bottom there.

It's interesting how bad morale impacts students morale.

Just my observation
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 26, 2022, 07:29:40 AM
I doubt students are wearing earbuds and complaining about grades because some faculty are at odds.
If you were staying, you could see how common these behaviors are at your college, but at this point it only matters as a comparison. As you teach elsewhere you may want to see if you need to adjust your teaching methods.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 26, 2022, 08:36:10 AM
I think some faculty give grades away as  passive aggressive behavior.

Students accustomed to solid A's and yes wearing earbuds. I consider myself an easy grader.

My overall point being is how bad faculty morale spills down to students.

That's all.

Thanks
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: the_geneticist on December 26, 2022, 07:25:15 PM
Quote from: hester on December 24, 2022, 03:49:51 PM
Hello,

  Taught a class as a last minute hire. Dept chair gave me vibe they didn't want to hire me and ran ads for my replacement throughout term.
Term ends a few students don't like grades and appeal.
I was essentially fired (been replaced) yet I'm being expected to go through appeal process.

In your opinion, at what point does contractual obligation end.

I'm not sure if I'll even have a college email much longer.

Thanks for feedback.

The Chair can handle any grade appeals without you.  No need to be available
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 27, 2022, 09:11:45 AM
Yes, a brief conversation or nothing at all is most likely. Dont sweat it. Sorry that your faculty has issues and that students are a bit inattentive. Its very common even among the most popular professors who also teach them a lot.
You just have to try to involve them more, but even so, some will still try to ignore you.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Caracal on December 28, 2022, 06:58:50 AM
Quote from: hester on December 25, 2022, 09:52:25 AM
Thanks for the feedback. The replies are what I expected. It makes one wonder the role of an adjunct has on campus. We really shouldn't be communicating with students if we are no longer teaching or in adjunct limbo ( still have an email but no courses).
Requests about grades and LOR's should be limited.




In closing, a fair amount of cynicism does help to protect ourselves while adjuncting.

Thanks again for the support!

Some cynicism is helpful, too much and you're going to end up killing your own morale and hurt your chances of future employment. There's a tricky balancing act here, because you are absolutely right that there's always a danger of being taken advantage of. Here's how I think of some of the things you mentioned.

1. I agree completely about grade appeals. I would write the chair a shortish email explaining the situation with the student appeal and including any relevant documentation and email correspondence you can easily get ahold of. In that email just make clear in a polite way that you don't have time to be involved further in the appeal process.

2. LOR are a bit different. You definitely are not required to write letters. However, I think of this as a sort of professional obligation to students that goes beyond employment. Retired instructors write letters. It is completely normal for people to write letters for students at a previous institution after they have gotten a new job. If you actually don't have time to write the letters, or you are getting flooded with requests, by all means start saying no, but if its just a letter here and there for a student at a former institution and you can do it, I think you should.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: fizzycist on December 31, 2022, 04:50:47 AM
If you are an adjunct and only taught one semester, I don't see any obligation to write letters of rec. It's hard to imagine a scenario where a student has absolutely nobody else to go to for a letter besides an adjunct who they took a single class with. And how much substance could really be in the letter anyway? Dept chairs, undergrad advisors, and TT faculty can easily pick up these responsibilities.

Of course if there are a couple students you had a strong connection with and you want to help them out then by all means go for it.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on December 31, 2022, 07:11:10 AM
I am not sure what "obligation" a former adjunct has to write letters of rec, but that's because I don't think it is very likely that somebody who taught one semester at a school, and apparently did not really fit in (for whatever reason) is going to get a lot of requests to write letters.

I taught intro level courses as an adjunct at a school for four years and never got one request. Mainly, I think, because students ask professors they are more familiar with and who teach courses in their major. I teach full-time and get several requests per semester, mainly because I teach upper-level courses, and often have had students in multiple courses over two or three years. Still, the students in my introductory courses almost never ask for letters (until they become students in my upper-level courses).

To be honest, if you've taught as an adjunct for one semester, assuming there was no major scandal, by this time next year nobody's going to remember you. That's the nature of being an adjunct.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Wahoo Redux on December 31, 2022, 10:01:09 AM
I did get requests for letters as an adjunct and as a NTT, probably because I taught smaller classes and I was friendly with the students.  Very few students even know that there are "adjuncts," "lecturers," "VAPs," or whatever----everyone is just "professor" to them. 

I never had a problem with writing letters, even when off the clock.  Letters don't take very much time and I always figured I was just doing a nice young person a favor. 
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 31, 2022, 10:35:26 AM
i think they are aware that some professors are part time/short term appointments, but I precise titles, and how that's really different from tenure track, no, they don't really know or care unless they've been studying academia for some reason (want to go to grad school in a small field, etc.) or maybe if a favorite prof. gets *denied* tenure, then some wake up to that (they do know what getting fired means).
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 31, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Very valid points about LORs.

I do agree adjuncts have a reasonable obligation to write them.

  Getting back to main point of this thread. How much work is an adjunct obligated to do after semester ends and it's clear they are not invited back to teach.

  Some Dept chairs really have an abusive view of adjuncts.
  As of today, I'm still helping students with grade appeals I e processing the forms. Yet, dept won't acknowledge my request of what their obligations are of me if I'm no longer teaching. Am I expected to sit through appeal hearings?

It makes me appreciate the dean's / chairs who are easy to develop working relationships with.

Thanks
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on December 31, 2022, 12:20:44 PM
I think we've pretty clearly stated that your "obligations" are pretty much "none," other than
perhaps supplying your dept. chair with, say, specific graded papers, if they exist, and only if you have them.
But even in that regard, you would only do so if asked, and the chances you'll be asked are small.
You will almost certainly not be asked to be in person at a hearing. In fact, for grade appeals, my school doesn't even do an in person hearing at all, though that wording might be used in documentation. Basically, the student explains why he/she thinks the grade is unfair, and provides evidence if there is any. The Dean who receives this then goes to the Chair, and Chair looks at evidence and sees if anything has merit. If so, then there's an attempt to re-grade or whatever.  The dean would also ask the original professor for some sort of rebuttal or acquiese to new grade.

Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on December 31, 2022, 02:00:47 PM
Thanks all.

Part of this was a bit venting but mostly seeking guidance.

  I really appreciate all of you taking the time !

Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: the_geneticist on December 31, 2022, 05:46:41 PM
Quote from: hester on December 31, 2022, 11:35:29 AM
Very valid points about LORs.

I do agree adjuncts have a reasonable obligation to write them.

  Getting back to main point of this thread. How much work is an adjunct obligated to do after semester ends and it's clear they are not invited back to teach.

  Some Dept chairs really have an abusive view of adjuncts.
  As of today, I'm still helping students with grade appeals I e processing the forms. Yet, dept won't acknowledge my request of what their obligations are of me if I'm no longer teaching. Am I expected to sit through appeal hearings?

It makes me appreciate the dean's / chairs who are easy to develop working relationships with.

Thanks

No need to participate more than you've already done.  A grade appeal isn't a legal trial, you have no obligation to appear.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 01, 2023, 07:54:42 AM
Also, why are you helping the students? if you think that in the end they are correct, just change the grade yourself.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on January 01, 2023, 08:10:33 AM
I don't they are correct.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 01, 2023, 08:47:33 AM
Then dont help them. If any one asks, just send them a link that describes the process or say that at ths point, talk to Chair or Dean.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on January 01, 2023, 10:12:44 AM
One obligation that a former employee does NOT have is to regularly check their previous email. When I have stopped teaching at a school, for whatever reason, I set the auto reply to something like: "Thanks for emailing me. I am not currently teaching at College University. For all questions relating to College University please contact Professor Dr. Chair at email@collegeunivesity.edu. If your email is not about College University, please contact me at jerseyjay@personalemail.com." The last part is optional and I only include it because people sometimes email me about my research or something like that. Then I never check my email again.

Presumably, the chair has your personal contact information and may contact you. If you have no relationship with the school (i.e., you never want to teach there again), you are under no obligation to do anything, as has been established. If the chair was unhappy with you, for whatever reason, they may not even contact you. Or they may contact you as a professional courtesy.

If they were to contact me in that position, I would probably respond:

"Based on my professional judgement and using the criteria on my syllabus, I assigned John Smith the grade of C. He earned a 75 percent on the homework, a 73 per cent on the midterm, a 76 per cent on the final."

After that, I wouldn't care. The chair could change the grades of all the students in my class, and that'd be fine with me, because I have no attachment (emotional or material) to the school anymore.

Personally, while I find this thread interesting, I think that the OP has already spent more time on this than it is worth.

Of course, there are some schools I have taught for years, have had a good experience, like my colleagues, may want to teach again, and may want to use as a reference. In those cases, I would be more more inclined to interact. But even there, up to a limit.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 01, 2023, 10:47:19 AM
What Jerseyjay said!
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: hester on January 01, 2023, 11:06:22 AM
Yes, I agree with your points and how much time I've spent on this thread.

I would like to point out this is a flaw with adjuncting.

When Dept chairs want to play games " hire for one course then dump" , there are ramifications.

Adjuncts like to be invested where they teach and admin need to be aware of problems (like I am facing)arising from churning adjuncts.

Thanks
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: downer on January 01, 2023, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: hester on January 01, 2023, 11:06:22 AM
I would like to point out this is a flaw with adjuncting.

When Dept chairs want to play games " hire for one course then dump" , there are ramifications.

Adjuncts like to be invested where they teach and admin need to be aware of problems (like I am facing)arising from churning adjuncts.


That's old news.

It is odd that you are still worrying this issue. Time to move on. Probably time to stop working as an adjunct.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Langue_doc on January 01, 2023, 02:19:22 PM
Quote from: downer on January 01, 2023, 01:14:15 PM
Quote from: hester on January 01, 2023, 11:06:22 AM
I would like to point out this is a flaw with adjuncting.

When Dept chairs want to play games " hire for one course then dump" , there are ramifications.

Adjuncts like to be invested where they teach and admin need to be aware of problems (like I am facing)arising from churning adjuncts.


That's old news.

It is odd that you are still worrying this issue. Time to move on. Probably time to stop working as an adjunct.

+1. Let it go. Admins are well aware of the problem. It's the adjuncts who seem to think that putting in hours after the end of their contract will somehow earn them brownie points. Let it go; you are no longer on the payroll.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 01, 2023, 04:19:20 PM
The 4 factors important for retaining a contingent faculty member:

1. need (enrollments, role of course for requirements)
2. funding
3. instructor performance (evals, complaints, etc.)
4. what are the alternatives? (overloads for TT staff, dumping course for a semester, etc.)
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: kaysixteen on January 01, 2023, 05:22:06 PM
Any chance that if the OP does not respond to a request from the chair to do actual work  on this grade appeal problem, that the chair would be able to blackball the OP going forward?
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on January 01, 2023, 10:13:35 PM
What the OP describes as "a flaw" in the adjunct system is, in fact, the main feature of the adjunct system: that a school is able to hire a professor to teach a course for a set wage and have no more obligations to the professor. I started my adjunct career in the late 1990s and this was the situation then, and it remains the situation now.

Of course, if the school has no more obligation to the (former) adjunct professor, the professor has no more obligation to the school, either. That said, schools may try to pressure or cajole (vague possibility of full-time employment, implied continued part-time employment, guilt about service to students, etc.) employees to do more than they have to.

In my experience, most schools do not try to cycle through adjunct professors as quickly as possible. All things being equal, it is better for the school to have a stable cadre of dependable instructors. That said, some schools do not hesitate to not schedule a part-timer a second semester if they don't like the part-timer (for whatever reasons, legitimate and not).

As to kaysixteen's question--no doubt the chair will "blackball" the OP from being hired in the department again; in fact, this sounds like it has already happened. Beyond that, who knows? If there are various schools in the area, chances are this is not a big deal for the OP. Twenty years ago I was an adjunct in Boston, and it was quite easy to move from one school to another; I had two schools that were my "regular" schools and would teach a semester here or there somewhere else. Of course, if the field or the area is really small, then this could be a bigger deal.

(I remember that at my current school, where I teach full-time, the administration tried to centralize a list of part-time professors since evidently some people had been fired in one department and then walked across campus and got a job in another department, without anybody realizing this for a while. My school is in a large metropolitan area with lots of schools that pay the same or better, so it cannot really be too choosy. I don't think they ever did create a central list.)

My bottom line is: if the OP taught one semester at a school and then stopped, so long as they have done all the duties required, they have no more legal obligations to the school. Assuming that the school has fulfilled its obligations (mainly in pay), then they have no more  legal obligations to the OP.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: kaysixteen on January 01, 2023, 10:26:40 PM
Why would it be a problem if dept B hired an adjunct that dept A across the hall had chosen to sack?   Doesn't dept B have that right?
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 02, 2023, 05:39:04 AM
I suppose they have the right (though only if they have hiring power, as at a large university). At a smaller school, many other chairs would know about problems with the adjunct and the hiring Dean surely would. Theyd only let an adjunct bounce around if there was legitimate need in the other dept. and there were no performance issues.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: marshwiggle on January 02, 2023, 07:16:58 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on January 01, 2023, 10:26:40 PM
Why would it be a problem if dept B hired an adjunct that dept A across the hall had chosen to sack?   Doesn't dept B have that right?

Since hiring of part-time faculty is, by definition, on short term contracts, then a person is almost never "sacked", i.e. fired before the end of a contract. They are simply not re-hired. There's absolutely no reason one department's decision not to re-hire someone should have any authority over any other department. (Although, presumably if the "new" department knew about the person's having been employed by the "old" department they might want to know how that went. Still, there's no reason that kind of discussion would be required.)
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 02, 2023, 07:53:52 AM
But how many of us are interchangeable cogs?  Maybe an English prof. can teach intro comp? Maybe some physical scientists can do *some* level of math or comp sci.  Some language people can do multiple languages. So, theoretically, this can happen, but we only see a couple of adjuncts every so often falling into that sort of situation, and ONLY if they have a good reputation (though, oddly, one of those got by us in the last couple of years, and it was because the person was excellent in his "home" field, but not so great in the others he distributed into).
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: marshwiggle on January 02, 2023, 08:19:16 AM
Quote from: Ruralguy on January 02, 2023, 07:53:52 AM
But how many of us are interchangeable cogs?  Maybe an English prof. can teach intro comp? Maybe some physical scientists can do *some* level of math or comp sci.  Some language people can do multiple languages. So, theoretically, this can happen, but we only see a couple of adjuncts every so often falling into that sort of situation, and ONLY if they have a good reputation (though, oddly, one of those got by us in the last couple of years, and it was because the person was excellent in his "home" field, but not so great in the others he distributed into).

This strikes me as about as common as the idea of a student submitting the same paper in two different courses and/or disciplines; it's theoretically possible, but it's going to be pretty rare that the requirements will be similar enough for it to work.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: kaysixteen on January 02, 2023, 10:42:26 AM
I do see that point, but speaking as someone who has adjuncted in four different types of depts (albeit only at three schools total), I am familiar with how this can be done, even without the adjunct's having multiple advanced degrees.  In addition to the multiple langs spoken example mentioned above, various points suggest themselves here:

1) the English prof teaching comp is probably doing this in an, ahem, English dept.   Only very big unis are likely to have separare rhetoric-style depts where this would be taught outside of the Engl dept
2) many scientists could teach basic college-level math classes
3) various schools have things like world civ and other sorts of interdisciplinary core course requirements, often at least relatively easily taught by professors from various depts
4) and I am a classicist.   Many classicists do a wide variety of things-- heck, a grad school prof I had labeled classics as the 'first area study'-- and many classics depts themselves have tenured members who are not, ahem, actually PhDs in classics, but rather might have a PhD in things like philosophy, history, art, linguistics, etc.  I am sure that there are other disciplines where similar broad-based hiring occurs
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 02, 2023, 12:22:41 PM
Well, yes, there are various ways this can be accomplished, I acknowledged that (and listed some of the same examples---and by the way, your number 1 is not correct, though your western civ. type example is good example, and at least a few schools do that, maybe many). My point was that even though its possible, its not particularly common. In any case, one recent case I know of this did indeed become problematic due to varying quality over the subject areas. But that was a case of *positive performance* leading us to let them go into various other areas similar to some of your examples. But then when they started in the other areas, performance in other areas was poor at worst and fair at best even though quality in "home" remained excellent.

But putting this into conclusions that would serve you, I'd say , yes, you can probably try to go to other depts. at same college (as an adjunct) if the original dept. doesn't need you any longer. However, expect rejection if performance in initial dept. was seen to be poor for some reason.  Generally speaking, AFTDJ, but don't hold out hope if things didn't end well for you in a particular gig (aside from just being dropped due to financial issues or enrollment issues that had nothing to do with you).
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on January 02, 2023, 02:47:44 PM
Obviously, if Dept. A wants to hire somebody who has taught in Dept. B, that's their right. And as has been said, few adjunct professors are actually "fired" instead of just not reappointed. That said, the chair of Dept. A might want to know if Dept. B did not reappoint somebody for a specific reason. If I remember correctly, the person in question had been accused of something concrete (harassment?) that probably would have disqualified them from teaching in another department. (I do not remember the details, and I do not remember whether these were just allegations or whether there had been some evidence.)

I teach in a small university. Nonetheless, there are several ways that somebody could teach in more than one department. For a while Western Civilization was required for all students, and it was run out of the history department, but used people with other humanities degrees, also. Somebody with a comparative lit degree could theoretically teach in the modern language department or the English department. As a full timer, I have taught classes in three different departments at different times.

My main point is that if the OP annoys the chair in one department at one school, this is not likely to make them unhirable as an adjunct elsewhere--maybe even in the same school. For that matter, in a few years, it is likely that there will be a new chair and the OP might even be able to get rehired in the same department.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Caracal on January 03, 2023, 08:29:45 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on January 02, 2023, 10:42:26 AM
I do see that point, but speaking as someone who has adjuncted in four different types of depts (albeit only at three schools total), I am familiar with how this can be done, even without the adjunct's having multiple advanced degrees.  In addition to the multiple langs spoken example mentioned above, various points suggest themselves here:

1) the English prof teaching comp is probably doing this in an, ahem, English dept.   Only very big unis are likely to have separare rhetoric-style depts where this would be taught outside of the Engl dept
2) many scientists could teach basic college-level math classes
3) various schools have things like world civ and other sorts of interdisciplinary core course requirements, often at least relatively easily taught by professors from various depts
4) and I am a classicist.   Many classicists do a wide variety of things-- heck, a grad school prof I had labeled classics as the 'first area study'-- and many classics depts themselves have tenured members who are not, ahem, actually PhDs in classics, but rather might have a PhD in things like philosophy, history, art, linguistics, etc.  I am sure that there are other disciplines where similar broad-based hiring occurs

People in interdisciplinary fields are going to have more options, classics included. I know that as a historian, there aren't many other departments who would hire me. I teach historically minded gen ed classes, but the history department is in charge of staffing those. I teach all kinds of things that are sometimes cross listed in other departments, but I couldn't teach an intro course in Religious Studies or American Studies. I don't have the disciplinary training for that. Not all of the people in those departments could teach intro history courses, but I would bet some could-some of them might even have been trained as historians.

Really, the only think I can do is writing courses, something I do have some experience and training in, but even that really depends on the philosophy and organization of the writing program at a school. I'm only going to be considered qualified at a place that is "writing across the disciplines" focused and has people from lots of disciplines teaching writing.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Caracal on January 03, 2023, 09:05:23 AM
Quote from: jerseyjay on January 01, 2023, 10:13:35 PM


In my experience, most schools do not try to cycle through adjunct professors as quickly as possible. All things being equal, it is better for the school to have a stable cadre of dependable instructors. That said, some schools do not hesitate to not schedule a part-timer a second semester if they don't like the part-timer (for whatever reasons, legitimate and not).



Yes, that's been my experience. There really isn't much supervision of adjuncts and it isn't a desirable enough job to have much in the way of real hiring procedures. Usually the only that happens is that the chair has a short conversation with a potential adjunct. They might ask a few questions about how teaching philosophy and ideas, but if you've gotten to that point, you'll usually be hired if you seem like a qualified person more or less in full possession of their faculties. If an adjunct gets ok evaluations, the chair doesn't hear anything alarming about them, and there aren't many complaints, then they're likely to keep getting rehired as long as they have funding, and courses they need someone to teach.

People who live in Boston, New York etc. sometimes think that's the way it works everywhere, but in most places, there really are not many people with doctorates interested in picking up classes for low wages and you don't have a ready supply of ABDs around to pick up the slack. If the choice is between continuing to hire someone you know is competent and doesn't cause drama, and getting rid of them and hiring someone who could turn out to be a loon, that's a pretty easy decision.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: jerseyjay on January 03, 2023, 09:50:50 AM
Having been hired as an adjunct at more than a dozen places over twenty years, the process usually is that I send the chair (or whoever hires adjuncts) a copy of my CV, they decide that I look like a possible fit for a section, they call me. Sometimes I get offered the job after a phone conversation; sometimes it leads to an actual meeting with the chair before being offered a job. After that, the chair might talk to me in the hall if we run into each other, but so long as no long as there are no complaints, I am usually offered another course for the coming semester.

Once or twice there was an actual interview, involving a committee. Sometimes the chair has contacted my references. But both of these are rare.

The closer the start date of the semester, the faster and looser the process is. I have been offered sections of courses based only on my CV and a quick conversation with the departmental secretary two days before the semester starts. Of course, this is also based on a CV with extensive experience.

In fact, the most important factor is teaching experience, not degree pedigree. At my current job, the chair was once so desperate for somebody to teach a section of an introductory course, they were happy to hire somebody with a PhD in a different field. (This person had extensive teaching experience and the field was sort of adjacent: think somebody with a PhD in Chinese literature teaching an introductory course in Chinese history.) This person ended up teaching part-time for several years.

On the other hand, the chair once hired somebody with only a master's and a semester's experience at a local CC to teach an introductory course. There were several student complaints and the chair simply did not renew this person for the next semester. This person still emails the secretary--four years later--every semester asking if there is a free course for the next semester.

At most places I have taught, if an adjunct makes it through the first semester with no complaints, they will usually be offered a second course.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 03, 2023, 09:54:48 AM
Yes, especially in the sciences, its very difficult to hire adjuncts. Even longer term VAPs are getting harder to fill.

But in fields here in which its easier to find adjuncts, a number of them are spouses of other faculty. Others are recent graduates of a program in which current Chair or Director of dept. or program in question knows someone, etc. and so forth. Most stay for as long as they care to so long as there aren't issues with teaching, enrollment, or lack of funding.
On occasion, some have been able to convert to VAPs (higher paying) , or even apply for and get a tenure track job (I know that's rarer than a unicorn at most schools).  We even have a formal process for converting status of adjuncts to a longer term NTT, but semi-permanent status (higher pay, better benefits if teaching full load). They can do that after equivalent of a few years at full load.  But an adjunct who does a bad job teaching or who is no longer needed by a dept. doesn't really have any rights. They just have to go, BUT even in those cases, we try to find other options. So, I think we do about as well by adjuncts as anyone could expect. I wish we could do even better (rights to sabbatical after a few years, etc.) , but administration thinks we are already doing too much for adjuncts/NTT positions.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Mobius on January 05, 2023, 01:12:34 PM
We can't find adjuncts unless we let them teach online. It makes course scheduling tricky when faculty departures leave holes in subfields. I'm not going to teach classes in one specific subfield because, frankly, I don't want to and can choose other courses to teach. We are having to sub out courses until our major requirements are revised.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: kaysixteen on January 05, 2023, 05:44:25 PM
Granted, classics ain't a growth field, and I am living in eastern New England, where several PhD programs in Classics exist, etc., but I am wondering whether it really is true, taken as a whole nationwide, that there is a dearth of PhDs willing to adjunct nowadays?  What is the evidence that this is the case?  I average maybe one assignment every three years nowadays, and to do this, I have had  to adjunct in three separate disciplines....  of course, student grade complaints cost me jobs at two of the three unis I worked at...  ah welll...I still wonder about the shortage, however.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 05, 2023, 06:28:53 PM
Heck, we have an across the board dearth of people willing to take our *tenure track* positions. I get that this doesn't *prove* a national dearth in adjuncts, but we have a dearth in everything!
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Caracal on January 06, 2023, 06:17:50 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on January 05, 2023, 05:44:25 PM
Granted, classics ain't a growth field, and I am living in eastern New England, where several PhD programs in Classics exist, etc., but I am wondering whether it really is true, taken as a whole nationwide, that there is a dearth of PhDs willing to adjunct nowadays?  What is the evidence that this is the case?  I average maybe one assignment every three years nowadays, and to do this, I have had  to adjunct in three separate disciplines....  of course, student grade complaints cost me jobs at two of the three unis I worked at...  ah welll...I still wonder about the shortage, however.

Nationwide, probably not, but unlike the full time academic job market, the adjunct market is local. Who would move to take an adjuncting position? Where you live, there are several PHD programs in your discipline in a fairly small area, which means that there are ABDs looking to teach for both money and experience. People who finish their degrees and don't get full time jobs are also often going to be hanging around.

On the other hand, I live in an urban area with plenty of colleges, but there isn't a PHD granting institution in my discipline within a 100 miles. If you end up here looking for adjunct work, it's probably because you're a trailing partner and there just aren't enough of those to go around and you see lots of people with just a terminal masters adjuncting.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Ruralguy on January 06, 2023, 07:05:57 AM
I'm in a small college town that is lucky to have two colleges, another community college a short drive away, and a significant number of colleges and universities within about 1-2 hours away. Still, in many fields it would be impossible for a trailing spouse to find work in this town, and very likely not in the region just mentioned. Of course, if the spouse can teach comp or Spanish, then they can probably find work. 
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Mobius on January 07, 2023, 11:52:49 AM
Quote from: kaysixteen on January 05, 2023, 05:44:25 PM
Granted, classics ain't a growth field, and I am living in eastern New England, where several PhD programs in Classics exist, etc., but I am wondering whether it really is true, taken as a whole nationwide, that there is a dearth of PhDs willing to adjunct nowadays?  What is the evidence that this is the case?  I average maybe one assignment every three years nowadays, and to do this, I have had  to adjunct in three separate disciplines....  of course, student grade complaints cost me jobs at two of the three unis I worked at...  ah welll...I still wonder about the shortage, however.

I can imagine there are just more people who have M.A.s and Ph.D.s in the humanities in a small geographic area. Same reason competition for academic jobs is fierce compared to rural Nebraska.
Title: Re: Dept chair being unreasonable with adjunct?
Post by: Caracal on January 08, 2023, 05:28:55 AM
Quote from: Ruralguy on January 06, 2023, 07:05:57 AM
I'm in a small college town that is lucky to have two colleges, another community college a short drive away, and a significant number of colleges and universities within about 1-2 hours away. Still, in many fields it would be impossible for a trailing spouse to find work in this town, and very likely not in the region just mentioned. Of course, if the spouse can teach comp or Spanish, then they can probably find work.

Yeah, I can't really assess how normal the situation where I live is. I'm in a pretty populated region, there are a number of schools around here, but no phd programs in my discipline and a number of bigger schools in the area make pretty extensive use of adjuncts. When I lived somewhere where the big school in the area had a phd program, it was a much tighter market since grad students there did a lot of the teaching at that school and snapped up adjunct positions at other schools.