I started a new job last month as full-time NTT faculty member at an R1. The job seems to be going okay so far, but there is one very striking feature about the culture here: I almost never see my colleagues. We're a small department to begin with, we only have 3 faculty meetings per semester, and most faculty aren't in their offices beyond their 2 posted office hours per week. Even the chair seems to work from outside of the office most of the time. There is one colleague whom I see on a regular basis because we both work on Major Service Thing as part of our contractual job duties. On most days, that colleague and the department's administrative assistant are the only people I see besides the students in the classes I teach.
I recognize this isn't necessarily a problem and that a lot of academics would be envious of a workplace where they can be completely undisturbed for hours at a time. But what I don't like about it is that I'm not feeling connected to the university at all. It's almost like we're the Independent Federation of Autonomous Basketweaving Scholars rather than the Department of Basketweaving. I get along well with the one colleague whom I see regularly, but most of our conversations are about Big Service Thing and nothing else.
I'm curious to know how common this is. This is the first time since grad school that I've been at an R1, so perhaps this is normal for this type of school. But it feels very weird. Is there anything else I ought to be doing to make sure I'm connected?
Sounds like heaven to me.
Hell really is other people.
Are people in your department productive in research? If they are just cranking away on papers and proposals most of their time anyway it probably doesn't really matter where they are typing their words.
Does your department have clear guidelines for tenure/promotion? One concern from lack of interaction with my colleagues would be not getting the story on what is important, and making connections with the people who are going to be voting on these things.
But mostly having no faculty around and having a culture where that is OK is great from a purely selfish viewpoint, which is a valid viewpoint to consider.
In my experience R1s are all about publishing research and getting grants, and just about everything else is of secondary importance.
Do I recall correctly, Pepsi_alum, that you like people and function more happily in a more social context?
If so, maybe this offers a couple of opportunities:
1) An excuse to set aside 2 hours per week, maybe down time between 2 unavoidable meetings or something, in which you walk around the campus (pick a new spot each time) and read the bulletin boards, visit the little "local" coffee shops or refectories for tea or a snack, and just people-watch.
Maybe talk to someone if they initiate, or suggest something about the weather in passing, but just court your new environment. Get to know it as a friend.
Go outside your department to check out a recital here or a play there, if groups present them. Become familiar with parts of the campus while you can....pretty soon, you may not even have time to wonder about where everyone else is.
2) See if, conversely, you need to "dial back" on the contact hours you expect with others. I can go looking for chatter when I really need to hole up and do more writing, and I've come to realize this both represents a drive for approval that I might do well to delay until I have something done worth approving, and a bit of anxiety about taking some of my work to a deeper level that I'm avoiding by connecting with others instead.
These don't have to be polarized, but it's a chance to check and see within yourself how those thingscwork--or don't--and how your new situation offers new opportunities for re-configuring your modus operandus.
I've done the "wander around the new place" thing in a couple situations and found myself enriched by it....it may not work for all, just an idea.
M.
When I was NTT faculty, I felt quite isolated also.
The TT faculty mostly interacted with their graduate students and research colleagues (who frequently are at other universities). I think this is normal behavior. Time is a professor's most precious resource. I actually feel bad about "wasting my time" at this moment writing here, ha ha. Okay, I'm stopping.
So, what fast_and_bulbous said.
Some cultures are warm and inviting, while others are more distant.
I've worked in closed-door cultures with a lot of contact, and open-door cultures that were positively toxic. Ask around to see how much face time and interaction is expected, and if someone asks you for coffee or lunch, drop everything and go. It could be business as usual, but it could also be a sign of deep division in a small unit. Once you find out which, you'll know how to play your new role. If you make a friend outside the department, they could give you some history.
I'm the meantime, be friendly and don't worry about it obsessively.
It might indicate a culture problem of some sort. It could also just be about the kind of school and location. I know that at the large public school I teach at, few faculty live very close to the school and it isn't easy to get off or on campus. Once you're there, everything is crowded and there aren't many places to go. As a result, people tend to be in their offices on their teaching days, but not there on other days. At smaller liberal arts schools, faculty often live near campus, it is easy to walk to various coffee shops and faculty schedules tend to be filled up with events and student meetings. So, people might be less camped out in their offices than at my school, but they tend to be in and out more.
Not sure where your place falls in this, although I will say that when I've been at places where lots of people were barely ever there, that usually was connected to larger problems of checked out faculty and low morale.
Quote from: pepsi_alum on September 29, 2019, 01:36:54 PM
I started a new job last month as full-time NTT faculty member at an R1. The job seems to be going okay so far, but there is one very striking feature about the culture here: I almost never see my colleagues. We're a small department to begin with, we only have 3 faculty meetings per semester, and most faculty aren't in their offices beyond their 2 posted office hours per week. Even the chair seems to work from outside of the office most of the time. There is one colleague whom I see on a regular basis because we both work on Major Service Thing as part of our contractual job duties. On most days, that colleague and the department's administrative assistant are the only people I see besides the students in the classes I teach.
I recognize this isn't necessarily a problem and that a lot of academics would be envious of a workplace where they can be completely undisturbed for hours at a time. But what I don't like about it is that I'm not feeling connected to the university at all. It's almost like we're the Independent Federation of Autonomous Basketweaving Scholars rather than the Department of Basketweaving. I get along well with the one colleague whom I see regularly, but most of our conversations are about Big Service Thing and nothing else.
I'm curious to know how common this is. This is the first time since grad school that I've been at an R1, so perhaps this is normal for this type of school. But it feels very weird. Is there anything else I ought to be doing to make sure I'm connected?
Why don't you start a union bargaining unit? SEIU and UAW are available. It fills a void in social academic life.
Tell me. Tell me! I want a job there.
Quote from: lightning on October 01, 2019, 08:36:04 AM
Tell me. Tell me! I want a job there.
I was thinking something similar, only more along the lines of: I could only wish that I never saw my colleagues (only sort-of kidding...)
I see what it is now. I think I misread the situation. I thought that you wanted more socializing for the fun and healthiness of it. But it sounds more like you think your future at this school depends on your doing the normal required thing, as regards socializing. As for it feeling strange to be so unconnected to the school, both in the experience of working and being available to students and informed about the department, and also the social aspect, it's absolutely a given for me to be used to that strange feeling. But then I am part time, so I'm even further out in orbit, away from the hub of the universe. It seems to me the full time non-TT person occupies an odd place between the interloper and the pillar of the community. I notice them getting more friendly with me lately.
Oh, that's so funny that you posted this question, as I was literally thinking about that precise issue today. I think that architecture often works against the ability to cultivate normal social interactions. We're located in an old building with narrow hallways that turn in all kinds of directions, so you don't even see people down the hall walking around much. I'm lucky that my program has built in some professional development meetings pretty regularly, but so far I've been too busy to attend any of them.
I have definitely found that, with one exception, the R1 departments I have trained in or taught in have been rather isolated places where people really didn't interact much. The one place that was an exception clearly had the blessing of architectural space: all of the faculty had offices on the same L-shaped floor with nice wide hallways, with the main administrative suite at the "corner" of the L -- so people couldn't really hide that much from one another. It's only looking back on that experience now that I thinking about how that department was different.
Hang in there! It's only been one month, and I suspect you will gradually develop some ties with some of the more outgoing members of the department.
I also feel isolated when I'm on campus in my department. Rewards in academia are for research productivity which in my field often comes with isolation, and so sociability is not highly rated. I find this very disappointing, since I have high social needs. My fantasies about working at a university would be that it was a candy store of ideas and exciting conversations. I guess I've also seen too many British movies showing offices in Oxford filled with attractive decanters of liquor in wood paneled cabinets, and longed for a conversation about basketweaving while swirling my high end liquor in a cut crystal glass in my office.
However: my solutions were to invite people over. I discovered that outside of work, my colleagues were (eventually) perfectly willing to come to a dinner party, etc. I also discovered other departments: people in other departments are much more interested in my research than my own colleagues, and so I have meeting, lunches and social time with them. It requires more work and organization than I'd like: I'd prefer to just walk down the hall. But, I've gotten my needs met.
Quote from: Caracal on October 01, 2019, 07:56:08 AM
It might indicate a culture problem of some sort. It could also just be about the kind of school and location. I know that at the large public school I teach at, few faculty live very close to the school and it isn't easy to get off or on campus. Once you're there, everything is crowded and there aren't many places to go. As a result, people tend to be in their offices on their teaching days, but not there on other days. At smaller liberal arts schools, faculty often live near campus, it is easy to walk to various coffee shops and faculty schedules tend to be filled up with events and student meetings. So, people might be less camped out in their offices than at my school, but they tend to be in and out more.
Not sure where your place falls in this, although I will say that when I've been at places where lots of people were barely ever there, that usually was connected to larger problems of checked out faculty and low morale.
Yes, the faculty on our campus rarely interact and it is because of some unpleasantness with positions being cut, competitiveness between schools for extremely limited resources. I feel like people don't interact because they don't trust each other in the present environment. I find it extremely sad and lonely even when I am on our campus.
I also work at an R1, and I experience a lot of isolation. I'm in a humanities field, and everyone prefers to work from home when they can. Our department has suffered from fragmentation and internal competition for decades, which makes it hard for us to work together across disciplinary fields. That said, I have welcomed the isolation as a means of escaping from some of the more toxic personalities and situations in our department, which were seriously affecting my mental state. We now have a new chair, and some of the more toxic personalities have retired. I would welcome a change in our working environment, but I will be surprised if anything substantial happens.
Quote from: pepsi_alum on September 29, 2019, 01:36:54 PM
I started a new job last month as full-time NTT faculty member at an R1. The job seems to be going okay so far, but there is one very striking feature about the culture here: I almost never see my colleagues. We're a small department to begin with, we only have 3 faculty meetings per semester, and most faculty aren't in their offices beyond their 2 posted office hours per week. Even the chair seems to work from outside of the office most of the time. There is one colleague whom I see on a regular basis because we both work on Major Service Thing as part of our contractual job duties. On most days, that colleague and the department's administrative assistant are the only people I see besides the students in the classes I teach.
This is how it is where I work. Find people in other departments, which may have a different culture. Another thing would be to form a campus NTT or NTT&TT writing group so you can get to know other people in the same boat as you and connect with others that way.
Be sure to build a social life outside of work so the isolation at work doesn't get to you--and use that isolated time to publish your way to somewhere that is the right fit for you.
It's not typical, but more typical for R1s, and I do want to know where you are because I want to apply there next time there is an opening, unless you are in a very expensive region or a very warm region. Despite being tenured, I almost think the freedom and lack of administrative nagging of renewable FT NTT at an R1 would be a dream to me. It's what I originally wanted. Basically, that does sound like a dream.
I thought I'd check into say that I'm starting to feel better about the situation. I still don't see my colleagues often, but I'm beginning to develop a better understanding of them and their work habits. Most people are collegial and I don't sense any major conflicts or tensions lurking beneath the surface. I think what's going on is that junior untenured faculty are so busy writing/publishing that it's easier for them to work from home or in the field. The tenured faculty are so accustomed to this mindset that they've continued these habits post-tenure and have remained productive researchers as a result, which is what the university wants. The handful of people who do use their offices regularly are the ones work the most closely with our students (both undergrad and grad).
A college professor choosing to not work on the the college grounds...
That is singularly depressing to me.
Quote from: Aster on October 16, 2019, 10:02:37 AM
A college professor choosing to not work on the the college grounds...
That is singularly depressing to me.
On the one hand, I agree with you. But from a research productivity perspective, sometimes being away from the office is a good thing - too many interruptions on campus.
But that is a very skewed perspective. I did enjoy visits from students and interactions that were spontaneous while I was faculty, and that is part of being part of a department, as is the service with all the committee work etc. But the many interruptions that regularly occurred in the office would keep me from getting "deep" research work done - the kind of work that requires solid attention for hours. Being able to get that at home or even in a library or whatever is pretty nice and in fact the system in many places (R1 for sure) rewards this kind of "selfish" behavior with research productivity über Alles.
I tried to get R1 research done at an R2.5 but couldn't without pissing everyone at R2.5 off due to my singular focus that came at the expense of other things I "should have" been doing more. Staying home for four consecutive days while chair allowed me to put together a presentation that was my ticket out of there and into R1 land where I currently reside (much happier).
Just closing your office door and working alone isn't really much different than just being in a different building anyway.
R2 - Pretty much the same here. I only see my colleagues when they teach and have office hours. I have one colleague I have lunch with pretty regularly. I see the department chair and the office assistant. The dean. That is it. I work on research in my office. I like to leave home for relaxation.
R2 - low research productivity despite the letterhead which claims we are an "Urban Research University." As I posted elsewhere I may go several months or even an entire semester without seeing some of the people I know are FT faculty. We have peak hours----essentially 10am-2pm----when there tends to be activity and interaction, otherwise I work in a ghost-town office.
Part of this is the internet; we no longer need office hours to communicate privately with our students.
Part of this is adjunctification; a great many of my colleagues teach 1 to 3 classes as part-timers, have no service, rarely hold office hours, and leave immediately after teaching.
Part of this is disenfranchisement; no one seems to hold any great grudges here, but peeps are not particularly involved or interested in the campus----some morale issues.
Part of this is attrition; the administration is slowly letting the department die: whenever someone loses a tenure bid, there is a failed search, or someone retires (and immediately moves away from our economically depressed community), the line is gone; we are literally losing people.
We ended up with a small cadre of people from the department, most of whom are nearing retirement, and we hang out from time to time. We have had trouble meeting people from other departments. It's a little sad.
On the other hand, no one bugs me if I cut out of office hours early (students rarely visit and email frequently) and I can concentrate on my grading and writing----so my sadness is largely assuaged by not having to deal with other people. B'sides, when we go out the conversation naturally turns to bitching about work, so there's that to miss too...
Maybe try getting on a pub trivia team or joining the community theater or volunteering at a museum?
My college also has low faculty morale. It's not circling the drain, but the water is shallow.
On Fridays, I hardly see any other professors at all in my building. It is mostly just me, one or two department heads, a few adjuncts, and a couple of high-performance new professors. One-third to one-half of those professors will end up leaving my college for a better offer within 4 years.
Everyone else on Fridays is just gone. A bunch are off moonlighting for other colleges, a few do real estate on the side, but I don't know where the bulk of the faculty are. We aren't allowed to swap physical office hours with virtual office hours, but I get the impression that many are doing it anyway.
All that said, I get an enormous amount of work done on Fridays with nobody being here to bother me. Fridays are my most productive day of the week for service and scholarly activity.
Quote from: Aster on October 22, 2019, 06:05:46 AM
My college also has low faculty morale. It's not circling the drain, but the water is shallow.
On Fridays, I hardly see any other professors at all in my building. It is mostly just me, one or two department heads, a few adjuncts, and a couple of high-performance new professors. One-third to one-half of those professors will end up leaving my college for a better offer within 4 years.
Everyone else on Fridays is just gone. A bunch are off moonlighting for other colleges, a few do real estate on the side, but I don't know where the bulk of the faculty are. We aren't allowed to swap physical office hours with virtual office hours, but I get the impression that many are doing it anyway.
All that said, I get an enormous amount of work done on Fridays with nobody being here to bother me. Fridays are my most productive day of the week for service and scholarly activity.
Sounds like you have a chance of being one of those who will leave soon for a better offer. Working at a place that is so far from thriving is pretty depressing. Get out!
I almost never see my colleagues either, except for at department and committee meetings. (I'm at a master's-granting, comprehensive blahblah.) There used to be more activity in our department, but things have changed. The policy/practice has been that you have to be on campus 4 days a week; there's no requirement about the number of hours on those days, of course. No one really monitors this, I don't think. I think that some of my colleagues have office hours online and the proportion of those who teach two days a week to those who teach three days a week is about 60-40. On Fridays, the department is a ghost town; on Mondays and Wednesdays it's a little better. The people who are present in the department seem to get the short end of the stick in terms of having to address issues that students have, which seems unfair. And I don't think it leaves a good impression on students who never see any faculty's doors open.
Our department had some "difficulties" a few years back, and I think there are still some residual bad feelings. Our campus in general has had recent turmoil - our pres and other admins left or retired last year, overall and department enrollment is down - so there's a lot less chatting in hallways and morale probably isn't as high as it once was. Ugh.
I agree. It sounds like heaven to me too!.
My faculty office is located in a brand new building that has a state of the art furniture and equipment, and a few faculty members are in their offices. I LOVE IT because I can plan my time and get a lot done with no interruption except when a student wants to come and see me in my office. Often times I also have a very well equipped kitchen all to myself.
Quote from: fast_and_bulbous on September 29, 2019, 02:21:32 PM
Sounds like heaven to me.
Hell really is other people.
Are people in your department productive in research? If they are just cranking away on papers and proposals most of their time anyway it probably doesn't really matter where they are typing their words.
Does your department have clear guidelines for tenure/promotion? One concern from lack of interaction with my colleagues would be not getting the story on what is important, and making connections with the people who are going to be voting on these things.
But mostly having no faculty around and having a culture where that is OK is great from a purely selfish viewpoint, which is a valid viewpoint to consider.
In my experience R1s are all about publishing research and getting grants, and just about everything else is of secondary importance.
Quote from: DrSomebody on October 03, 2019, 12:16:32 AM
I almost think the freedom and lack of administrative nagging of renewable FT NTT at an R1 would be a dream to me. It's what I originally wanted. Basically, that does sound like a dream.
This is largely true from my experience. I teach more, am paid a bit less, found myself on several committees, but my stress level is easily a third of the TT faculty and I have a good deal more free time despite the additional grading. It's hardly "a dream," but being FT NTT has its advantages.