Attendance verification for online courses.

[saffie]

The instructions we're given to verify enrollment for financial purposes are basically the ones given at the following page under the New Rule: Documenting Attendance heading.

https://www.nasfaa.org/news-item/2256/Final_Program_Integrity_Rules_Expanded_Definition_of_Required_to_Take_Attendance_for_Return_of_Funds_Calculations

The student needs to engage in some academic activity within the first three weeks of the fall or spring term, otherwise we have to report as "never attended". It's made clear that just logging into an online course is not sufficient.

[downer]

The instructions we're given to verify enrollment for financial purposes are basically the ones given at the following page under the New Rule: Documenting Attendance heading.

https://www.nasfaa.org/news-item/2256/Final_Program_Integrity_Rules_Expanded_Definition_of_Required_to_Take_Attendance_for_Return_of_Funds_Calculations

The student needs to engage in some academic activity within the first three weeks of the fall or spring term, otherwise we have to report as "never attended". It's made clear that just logging into an online course is not sufficient.

That document isn't dated, but it the "new rule" went into effect in 2011, right?

[histchick]

In my experience there's can be a big gap between financial aid regulations and what schools do to comply with them. Maybe things will change soon and schools will insist that faculty build their syllabi around the need to monitor student compliance. But it sure as hell isn't happening this fall.

Maybe not at your place(s), but it is sure as hell is happening at mine.  Not a big deal. Syllabus quiz, or the student is reported as a "no show." 

[downer]

In my experience there's can be a big gap between financial aid regulations and what schools do to comply with them. Maybe things will change soon and schools will insist that faculty build their syllabi around the need to monitor student compliance. But it sure as hell isn't happening this fall.

Maybe not at your place(s), but it is sure as hell is happening at mine.  Not a big deal. Syllabus quiz, or the student is reported as a "no show."

What if the student takes the syllabus quiz but gets most the of the questions wrong? Are they still a no show?

[Hegemony]

Then they're not a no-show, they're a failing student.

[polly_mer]

If the course has regular assignments, which I assume it does, it should be easy enough to see whether the student is doing them. I suppose it's vaguely conceivable that a student is logging in frequently but not doing any assignments, but I've never actually heard of it happening.

As a former director of online education, I assure you it does happen and that's one reason I know that just logging in is not sufficient evidence of participation (not just attendance) for federal financial aid purposes.  Oh, how angry students were when failing at gaming the system for the financial aid and being administratively dropped after ignoring all the email notices.

People have to pay back some financial aid if they drop below full enrollment before a date that's well after the census date, but will still owe the full tuition.  Supportive institutions work really hard to have few students end up in that situation.

[Caracal]

If the course has regular assignments, which I assume it does, it should be easy enough to see whether the student is doing them. I suppose it's vaguely conceivable that a student is logging in frequently but not doing any assignments, but I've never actually heard of it happening.

As a former director of online education, I assure you it does happen and that's one reason I know that just logging in is not sufficient evidence of participation (not just attendance) for federal financial aid purposes.  Oh, how angry students were when failing at gaming the system for the financial aid and being administratively dropped after ignoring all the email notices.

People have to pay back some financial aid if they drop below full enrollment before a date that's well after the census date, but will still owe the full tuition.  Supportive institutions work really hard to have few students end up in that situation.

When I fill out the grades and need to go back and find the date of last attendance for a student who failed, I always wonder what those cut offs are. I usually have a few students who never came after the first week, but more commonly, they show up occasionally until around the middle of the semester, when they vanish entirely

[Golazo]

Of course, there are other possible forms of engagement, like an introduction post, which is what I require. That doesn't require me to grade anything other than complete/not complete.

[Parasaurolophus]

My feeling is that online courses should have required discussion boards (discussing aspects f the course topic) every week, for student engagement. Anyway, mine do.

Same here.


But, you know. Whatever directives come from On High, they're directives you should follow to the letter, even if you violate their spirit.

[polly_mer]

My feeling is that online courses should have required discussion boards (discussing aspects f the course topic) every week, for student engagement. Anyway, mine do.

Same here.


But, you know. Whatever directives come from On High, they're directives you should follow to the letter, even if you violate their spirit.

Only people who are easily replaced, want to keep their jobs, and will be checked for following the directives have to follow directives.

People who are hard to replace can sometimes have more flexibility and may have someone else take on some responsibility (e.g., the results of a syllabus quiz go to the administrators and is not graded).

People who aren't being checked usually have more de facto flexibility, but then have a problem when the checks start and the noncompliance is brought to light.  That's likely going to bite a lot of faculty this fall as the distant ed requirements are enforced on institutions and institutions didn't spend the past six months educating and supporting their faculty about compliant distance education, let alone good online education.

[downer]

As a practical matter, who would do the checking of syllabi and the actual implementation of policies stated in the syllabi? What would be the ratio of checkers to syllabi?

My impression is that there's just too much checking to do for it to be thorough.

The same thing seemed to happen in outcomes assessment. There were all sorts of efforts to implement grand projects. But most people realized that they could do a half-assed job, throwing in some meaningless jargon, and nobody actually ever looked at what they wrote or whether they did what they said they would do. (Which prods me to ask: whatever happened to outcomes assessment? I haven't heard anyone complaining about it for a while now. Has it been renamed?)

[dr_codex]

As a practical matter, who would do the checking of syllabi and the actual implementation of policies stated in the syllabi? What would be the ratio of checkers to syllabi?

My impression is that there's just too much checking to do for it to be thorough.

The same thing seemed to happen in outcomes assessment. There were all sorts of efforts to implement grand projects. But most people realized that they could do a half-assed job, throwing in some meaningless jargon, and nobody actually ever looked at what they wrote or whether they did what they said they would do. (Which prods me to ask: whatever happened to outcomes assessment? I haven't heard anyone complaining about it for a while now. Has it been renamed?)

Last time I checked, it was now called an "Assessment Spiral".

The jokes write themselves.

[the_geneticist]

I regularly get emails asking about the attendance, participation, and current grades for student athletes.  They are typically very attentive students.  It's been more challenging to answer the participation portion since we've been told be cannot require synchronous learning (at least not in Spring or Summer).  Folks here don't realize that online =/= self-paced or asynchronous.  I am trying to gather evidence that the synchronous interactions are VITAL to learning or else some admin person will think they can save money by cutting all our lab TAs and replace us with a canned online module.

[histchick]

In my experience there's can be a big gap between financial aid regulations and what schools do to comply with them. Maybe things will change soon and schools will insist that faculty build their syllabi around the need to monitor student compliance. But it sure as hell isn't happening this fall.

Maybe not at your place(s), but it is sure as hell is happening at mine.  Not a big deal. Syllabus quiz, or the student is reported as a "no show."

What if the student takes the syllabus quiz but gets most the of the questions wrong? Are they still a no show?

I never said it was a tough quiz (I didn't write it, it's standard for online classes).  Think "did you read the syllabus?" with "Yes" and "No" as choices.

[downer]

In my experience there's can be a big gap between financial aid regulations and what schools do to comply with them. Maybe things will change soon and schools will insist that faculty build their syllabi around the need to monitor student compliance. But it sure as hell isn't happening this fall.

Maybe not at your place(s), but it is sure as hell is happening at mine.  Not a big deal. Syllabus quiz, or the student is reported as a "no show."

What if the student takes the syllabus quiz but gets most the of the questions wrong? Are they still a no show?

I never said it was a tough quiz (I didn't write it, it's standard for online classes).  Think "did you read the syllabus?" with "Yes" and "No" as choices.

Then it is isn't so clear that meets the requirement of "active participation" required by the Integrity Rules.  Is an exam where the only questions are "What is your name?" and "Did you read the syllabus" really an exam?

My point was that it will take more oversight of faculty courses to actually meet the requirements of the integrity rules, which look like they rule out meaningless exercises, and I haven't seen or heard of that being implemented by administration at any schools. Some faculty already structure their courses in ways that meet the requirements, but I'm sure many don't.