I'm starting to think about the fall.
These days we don't just use a textbook (if we do) but also have all sorts of publisher materials online and available in various formats.
But we forget our passwords, old material expires, new textbooks come out with associated materials, and publishers change the platforms they use. So getting ready for the semester has a whole other layer of preparation.
I've already been online to request access to access to instructors' material for the new edition of a textbook I use. That ended in an error message with a phone number to call. So I called, and eventually Josh answered. He was polite enough but he sounded bored. He seemed fine in giving me access to the materials. I'm still waiting for the promised email link. I guess I will wait a day and then try again if I still have no access.
How do you keep on top of all this?
Only one of my courses uses a textbook, and I use an open-source text. Pretty much the only reason I even have a textbook for this class is so that students can have a lot of problem sets and an answer key. I just can't bear the flogging of publisher software and all that other crap that comes with the other textbooks. Besides which, I've noticed that those textbooks have fewer problem sets, and they cover less ground, because they're all designed to flog the stupid software.
For every other class, I just post articles or chapters from different sources.
For most classes, I don't use a textbook. For the one that I do, I use a textbook only, no course packs or additional online materials. I really dislike the extensive fees to students for those resources, most of which require extra work for me and for my students. And I don't want a second platform. I want it all in the school's LMS; I hate when students have to access different sites for different materials and assignments and grades.
A few years back I went to a small paperback from which I do weekly post/responses. It was about 80% cheaper than a typical text. And....I still have all the imagery from those years where I had access to the publisher's materials. :)
When I taught, I used a textbook but allowed students to use previous editions if they wanted to. They were close enough to the current edition and super cheap online.
The online materials always stunk so I never used them anyway.
Yeah, I steer clear of anything online, and allow students to buy any edition of the textbook. Just what textbook publishers hate. Oh well.
Quote from: Hegemony on August 05, 2019, 01:33:36 PM
Yeah, I steer clear of anything online, and allow students to buy any edition of the textbook. Just what textbook publishers hate. Oh well.
Yeah. The sales rep was sooooooo trying to mansplain me how
their online vocabulary quizzes are
designed to build
Critical Thinking (tm).
Because... pedagogy.
As a means of controlling costs for my students, for the most part I use coursepacks I have developed and constantly update. I don't make any money from doing so; the students buy them from the bookstore for the cost of copying plus the bookstore's markup. They pay a tenth or less of what published textbooks cost in my field, and I have placed all of the online materials needed into our CMS. I have had years to develop these materials, though, and it would be overwhelming to try to do them from scratch all at once.
I don't use them; I build my own -- lecture notes that I've written, academic journal articles the students can access through the university library, links to mass media content (The New Yorker, Al Jazeera, etc.), and occasionally a mass market paperback that will cost students ~ $10. There are also an increasing number of well-written OER texts in my field(s). I would never subject an undergraduate to a terribly-written textbook and online ancillaries costing $50-$250.
It seems like nobody uses textbooks any more, apart from me! (And even I occasionally don't use them.)
Yet the publishers are still in business. How is this possible?
I use them in math and I use the online homework. I teach primarily lower-level and developmental math, and I think that the gain from having homework that is automatically marked (for computational things) outweighs the cost of the software. I do try and choose lower-cost items when possible, and if possible bundle course sequences (Where a student would not take the first unless their degree program requires both) to save overall.
Quote from: kiana on August 05, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
I use them in math and I use the online homework. I teach primarily lower-level and developmental math, and I think that the gain from having homework that is automatically marked (for computational things) outweighs the cost of the software. I do try and choose lower-cost items when possible, and if possible bundle course sequences (Where a student would not take the first unless their degree program requires both) to save overall.
That is one advantage. For the formal course I teach, though, the homework grading comes at an additional cost (and it's pretty substantial). I think a few people have developed some open-source platforms that can do the same work, but I haven't investigated them. I'll have to talk to my buddy about it when he gets back from foreign parts.
So I just have Moodle grade those assignments. It's not the most flexible grading platform for the subject, and it takes a little time to figure out how to set up the questions for it, but it's good enough for my purposes. And it means that students don't end up conflating the software's bizarre language and properties with actual elements of the formal content they're learning.
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 05, 2019, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: kiana on August 05, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
I use them in math and I use the online homework. I teach primarily lower-level and developmental math, and I think that the gain from having homework that is automatically marked (for computational things) outweighs the cost of the software. I do try and choose lower-cost items when possible, and if possible bundle course sequences (Where a student would not take the first unless their degree program requires both) to save overall.
That is one advantage. For the formal course I teach, though, the homework grading comes at an additional cost (and it's pretty substantial). I think a few people have developed some open-source platforms that can do the same work, but I haven't investigated them. I'll have to talk to my buddy about it when he gets back from foreign parts.
So I just have Moodle grade those assignments. It's not the most flexible grading platform for the subject, and it takes a little time to figure out how to set up the questions for it, but it's good enough for my purposes. And it means that students don't end up conflating the software's bizarre language and properties with actual elements of the formal content they're learning.
Yes. When I taught math I just loaded a bunch of multiple choice questions into Moodle. Took a while the first time but then it pretty much ran itself.
Quote from: downer on August 05, 2019, 02:46:58 PM
It seems like nobody uses textbooks any more, apart from me! (And even I occasionally don't use them.)
Yet the publishers are still in business. How is this possible?
Selling standardized tests and the companion software to K-12.
I'm increasingly trying to move toward a combination of open-source and self-authored materials in my classes because of pressure from textbook publishers to assign their proprietary web resources. Such web-based platforms are not at all necessary in my field.
Another thing I'm trying this upcomimg semester in one of my classes is to put a handful of older edition on reserve at the library that students can check out as a reference if they are so inclined. This works, because we'll cover most textbook material in class, and students can refer back to the book if they need something clarified.
Quote from: pepsi_alum on August 09, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
Another thing I'm trying this upcomimg semester in one of my classes is to put a handful of older edition on reserve at the library that students can check out as a reference if they are so inclined. This works, because we'll cover most textbook material in class, and students can refer back to the book if they need something clarified.
I used to always keep a copy of the textbook on reserve at the library. It was great for students who could not afford the text or for those who lost their book midway through the semester. But now our library won't allow it. We are not permitted to put any textbooks on reserve because - according to the librarian - the publishers have pushed back so much that the school won't allow it.
Quote from: Grinch on August 10, 2019, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: pepsi_alum on August 09, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
Another thing I'm trying this upcomimg semester in one of my classes is to put a handful of older edition on reserve at the library that students can check out as a reference if they are so inclined. This works, because we'll cover most textbook material in class, and students can refer back to the book if they need something clarified.
I used to always keep a copy of the textbook on reserve at the library. It was great for students who could not afford the text or for those who lost their book midway through the semester. But now our library won't allow it. We are not permitted to put any textbooks on reserve because - according to the librarian - the publishers have pushed back so much that the school won't allow it.
Since when do the publishers tell the libraries what they can keep in their collections?
Quote from: ciao_yall on August 10, 2019, 03:32:40 PM
Quote from: Grinch on August 10, 2019, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: pepsi_alum on August 09, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
Another thing I'm trying this upcomimg semester in one of my classes is to put a handful of older edition on reserve at the library that students can check out as a reference if they are so inclined. This works, because we'll cover most textbook material in class, and students can refer back to the book if they need something clarified.
I used to always keep a copy of the textbook on reserve at the library. It was great for students who could not afford the text or for those who lost their book midway through the semester. But now our library won't allow it. We are not permitted to put any textbooks on reserve because - according to the librarian - the publishers have pushed back so much that the school won't allow it.
Since when do the publishers tell the libraries what they can keep in their collections?
Yeah, that seems odd to me too. In addition to "reserves," my uni has a textbook loan program, with multiple copies of (mostly) gen-ed texts available for 3-hour, library use only. I have no idea how popular it is, but it seems like an idea whose time has come.
Quote from: Phydeaux on August 10, 2019, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: ciao_yall on August 10, 2019, 03:32:40 PM
Quote from: Grinch on August 10, 2019, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: pepsi_alum on August 09, 2019, 09:03:15 PM
Another thing I'm trying this upcomimg semester in one of my classes is to put a handful of older edition on reserve at the library that students can check out as a reference if they are so inclined. This works, because we'll cover most textbook material in class, and students can refer back to the book if they need something clarified.
I used to always keep a copy of the textbook on reserve at the library. It was great for students who could not afford the text or for those who lost their book midway through the semester. But now our library won't allow it. We are not permitted to put any textbooks on reserve because - according to the librarian - the publishers have pushed back so much that the school won't allow it.
Since when do the publishers tell the libraries what they can keep in their collections?
Yeah, that seems odd to me too. In addition to "reserves," my uni has a textbook loan program, with multiple copies of (mostly) gen-ed texts available for 3-hour, library use only. I have no idea how popular it is, but it seems like an idea whose time has come.
It would seem like the school's and library's traditional right of first purchaser to lend would cover all of this. If a university or library administration gave into publisher pressure and forced the library to stop putting textbooks on course reserve, they shouldn't have.
What could a publisher threaten a university library with? Do textbook publishers give libraries deals they might refuse to continue? I can imagine that with some university presses that sell to libraries, but the big textbook publishers just make textbooks and online packages for students to buy.
Our library has, for years, refused to accept desk copies for placement on reserve. Their explanation is that since the text is marked 'for instructor use only, not for resale' it was given to me by the publisher and isn't my property to loan.
I should try to put one on reserve that isn't so marked and report back...
Quote from: Thursday's_Child on August 12, 2019, 09:56:39 AM
Our library has, for years, refused to accept desk copies for placement on reserve. Their explanation is that since the text is marked 'for instructor use only, not for resale' it was given to me by the publisher and isn't my property to loan.
Okay, I can see a librarian being such a stickler as to let that be an issue. Though I like to think that most of us would be more sensible than that.
But you're not reselling, you're loaning it to students.
A gift becomes the property of the recipient.
[Sings]: "It's your book. You-can-put-it-on-closed-reserve-if-you-wanna!"
M.
Quote from: waterboy on August 05, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
A few years back I went to a small paperback from which I do weekly post/responses. It was about 80% cheaper than a typical text. And....I still have all the imagery from those years where I had access to the publisher's materials. :)
So you're promoting copyright violation to your students?
I'm no fan of the big publishers, but pirating the work of your fellow colleagues is kind of shitty.
Sorry, I'm missing something.
Where is the work of fellow colleagues being copied in this scenario?
M.
Quote from: pedanticromantic on August 14, 2019, 06:28:45 AM
Quote from: waterboy on August 05, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
A few years back I went to a small paperback from which I do weekly post/responses. It was about 80% cheaper than a typical text. And....I still have all the imagery from those years where I had access to the publisher's materials. :)
So you're promoting copyright violation to your students?
I'm no fan of the big publishers, but pirating the work of your fellow colleagues is kind of shitty.
Here.
Right, but those publishers were paid for those materials, and they paid the developers, unless they withheld rights and are being paid royalties.
I'm very concerned for musicians who didn't hold onto their rights in these settings, and never received much, if anything, for their compositions.
But for the paid developers of materials who have already been paid for them, not so much.
M.
Quote from: mamselle on August 14, 2019, 05:34:20 PM
Right, but those publishers were paid for those materials, and they paid the developers, unless they withheld rights and are being paid royalties.
I'm very concerned for musicians who didn't hold onto their rights in these settings, and never received much, if anything, for their compositions.
But for the paid developers of materials who have already been paid for them, not so much.
M.
But it is copyrighted material being shared without permission.
But the PowerPoints and such are intended to be shared. And they've already been paid for.
Believe me, I'm fierce about misuse of intellectual property (you can ask the editing client whose work I returned undone last week because of flagrant plagarism how mad it makes me), but this isn't the same thing.
I bought a music book years ago. Last week, I pulled it out to use for a student for sight-reading practice.
I bought some sheet music decades ago. A couple months back, I pulled it out and started practicing it again.
Do I owe the composer or publisher something now? I'm not copying or re-printing it, just re-reading it.
I loan a friend a book bought 30 years past. I read one a friend loaned me. Same thing.
Same issues, I think.
M.
I was under the impression, from the comment about weekly posts/responses, that waterboy was referencing materials from course packs or other intellectual material that publishing produce to sell. If it is something that students pay to access, copying the material and providing it to students for free is a copyright violation.
To use your examples, pulling out sheet music later for your personal use is fine and doesn't require additional payments. But copying that same sheet music and giving free copies to students to use would be wrong.
Quote from: Hegemony on August 05, 2019, 01:33:36 PM
Yeah, I steer clear of anything online, and allow students to buy any edition of the textbook. Just what textbook publishers hate. Oh well.
Yes but it is a complete nightmare managing all the possible editions especially if you are assigning questions/problems from the textbook or partial chapters as reading assignments...:(
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on August 05, 2019, 07:02:52 PM
Quote from: kiana on August 05, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
I use them in math and I use the online homework. I teach primarily lower-level and developmental math, and I think that the gain from having homework that is automatically marked (for computational things) outweighs the cost of the software. I do try and choose lower-cost items when possible, and if possible bundle course sequences (Where a student would not take the first unless their degree program requires both) to save overall.
That is one advantage. For the formal course I teach, though, the homework grading comes at an additional cost (and it's pretty substantial). I think a few people have developed some open-source platforms that can do the same work, but I haven't investigated them.
MyOpenMath https://www.myopenmath.com (https://www.myopenmath.com) is an option for online homework that is free.
Lumen Learning https://lumenlearning.com/courses/ (https://lumenlearning.com/courses/) also offers several math texts that include their online homework manager.
Unfortunately, both are limited to lower-level math courses.