Can endless dealing with very bad students cause mental issues to professors?

Started by hamburger, May 02, 2020, 10:54:53 AM

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hamburger

Quote from: the_geneticist on May 06, 2020, 09:55:51 AM
Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 06:19:53 AM
Quote from: Caracal on May 06, 2020, 05:58:45 AM
Quote from: mahagonny on May 05, 2020, 11:19:07 PM

I'm going to try again 'cause I keep thinking about you.
In your first two sentences you state a very simple common problem that is real. The students don't remember your instructions.
If you stopped there and worked on the problem methodically you'll get better results. Don't delve into conclusions about their thought processes, why they are in the your country, etc. This is distracting you and feeding a theory of polarization and cross-purposes.
. You have a simple problem.
Etc.

This is  where Hamburger always gets stuck. It isn't a unique problem, you see it all the time here. I've done it myself plenty of times. It can be easy to forget that as the instructor you actually are in charge of the class. You can choose which problems to address and what not to address. In this case as Mahagonny says, it might be that phrasing your instructions in a different way, or reminding students students repeatedly, both in class, and via the CMS would cut down on some of these issues.

Since you're in charge, you can also choose how to respond when students don't do the thing they are supposed to do. Again, the point is to just avoid getting in to your feelings about it all. Your response to students who want to turn something in late can be to tell them they can't, or you can just say "ok, do it by tomorrow and I'll accept it." Either way you just do the same thing every time it happens and don't spend a lot of time speculating about your students' character and motives.



Actually I was on several academic hiring committees ranging from selection of Assistant Professors to Associate Professors in one top university. At that time, the department head (a big bully) was always the SCC. With voting which none of us saw the results, the selections looked fair on the surface but he picked whoever he liked regardless of expert opinions of colleagues from the corresponding fields. I remember he used "dinners in a hotel" to encourage participations in after hours meetings with applicants. It was like a show.

Strip away the comments about fairness and bullying, and that's basically how a search is conducted!  It is normal for non-voting members to not learn the results of the faculty vote.  It is normal to meet with applicants "after hours" over dinner.  Also, the final decision on hiring is not up to the chair, it's the dean or some other person in upper admin.
But seriously, agonizing over how a search is run does not matter for you since you aren't getting interviews.  That means you aren't making the short list of qualified candidates for the position.  No recent publications = no R1 or R2 or R3 interviews.  No passion for teaching = no SLAC interviews. 
And your obvious chip on the shoulder about wanting respect simply for having a Ph.D is really off-putting.  Your students don't care about your degree, they care about your teaching skills.  It's your class, you are in charge because you were hired to teach the class.
Anyway.  How's the non-academic job search going?
I hope your job skills are amazing because your people skills are clearly lacking.

I was a voting member. I and my colleagues who were also voting members did not get to see the votes. One time we were interviewing candidates in my area. I was the only one in my area and one applicant could not answer several questions I asked. Yet, he was selected by the department head.

Regarding to people skills. If I like the person, I have people skills with him or her. If I dislike the person, no matter how much effort I spend on pretending that I like that person, everybody knows I dislike that person. I am not a good actor. That is why all these years, people advised me to stay in academia rather than in industry.

Anyway, the focus now is not on the students nor previous jobs. It is on how to get interviews.

mahagonny

Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 11:14:51 AM

Regarding to people skills. If I like the person, I have people skills with him or her. If I dislike the person, no matter how much effort I spend on pretending that I like that person, everybody knows I dislike that person. I am not a good actor. That is why all these years, people advised me to stay in academia rather than in industry.


I can't imagine why anyone would recommend that unless they are talking to someone who's got full prof tenure already. Even then, interacting with someone in such a way wherein you don't mind their knowing you don't like them is just plain weird and wouldn't be acceptable to most profs. Teaching in college today is very much a world in which you must not be disliked. It's acting. Of course, people on this forum and just about everywhere else, who are on the tenure track, talk about tenure as though it's the norm. It's not, It's the exception.
'Acting is all about sincerity. If you can fake that, you've got it made.' - George Burns, who succeeded
'You can tell people the truth, but only if you can make people laugh.' - someone who 'gets' George Burns


eigen

You seem to have bought into and internalized two ideas that I think are damaging to you getting jobs:

1) Academia is a perfect meritocracy, and
2) What matters most is subject matter expertise.

For research active positions, subject matter expertise is good, but vision and results are more important. These are conveyed in your detailed plans for innovative future research, backed up by a history of successfully funded grants and published papers. Having past success with no future plan will make you less competitive, and having a future plan without past success won't be good either.

For teaching positions (or teaching focused positions), you need to be able to cohesively convey a vision for the kinda of teacher you are in the classroom, a good knowledge of current (and cutting edge) pedagogy in your field, and be able to back it up with peer evaluations and student outcomes showing that you are a successful teacher. Being able to talk about how you analyze, adapt and adjust your teaching based on student and peer feedback is also really important.

For positions even at many PUIs these days, you will need to show that you are an effective researchers and an excellent teacher, as well as showing that you are a team player who will be a good contributor to working on committees (service) across the institution.

You seem to rely a lot (in your posts here) on having an "elite" PhD, but that's not one of the criteria I've ever seen treated as really important in faculty hiring. Sure, it may get your application looked at more closely (foot in the door), but if you can't back it up with trajectory after your PhD.... It doesn't really matter much, from my experience.

Elite PhDs usually help because they give you a network (and letters from well known people) and access to the support needed to launch a successful academic career. Not because the name of the institution itself will get you a job.
Quote from: Caracal
Actually reading posts before responding to them seems to be a problem for a number of people on here...

the_geneticist

Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 11:14:51 AMRegarding to people skills. If I like the person, I have people skills with him or her. If I dislike the person, no matter how much effort I spend on pretending that I like that person, everybody knows I dislike that person. I am not a good actor. That is why all these years, people advised me to stay in academia rather than in industry.

Anyway, the focus now is not on the students nor previous jobs. It is on how to get interviews.

You don't need to "pretend to like" everyone.  You need to treat everyone with respect or at least some detached sort of polite disinterest.  Be polite to folks even if they are not polite to you.  Any sort of obvious liking of some people and disliking of others means you are setting yourself up for failure (think of future collaborators, committee work, etc.  No one wants to work with someone who is that biased.). Strive for being consistent and fair.

As far as getting interview, I don't know what to tell you.  Either you don't have the skill set they want or your lack of people skills is obvious in your cover letter.  Maybe have someone proof read?  Or look for jobs that are mostly independent with little teamwork. 

hamburger

Thanks all for the helpful suggestions. I noticed that when I got annoyed, I typed things that were not what I intended to type.  It gets worse over time. What is wrong? Is it due to stress or some mental issue? Is it another sign of burning out due to the teaching job?

polly_mer

Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 03:01:09 PM
Thanks all for the helpful suggestions. I noticed that when I got annoyed, I typed things that were not what I intended to type.  It gets worse over time. What is wrong? Is it due to stress or some mental issue? Is it another sign of burning out due to the teaching job?

That's normal stress and, yes, that's an indication that you should put energy into finding another job.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

downer

Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 03:01:09 PM
Thanks all for the helpful suggestions. I noticed that when I got annoyed, I typed things that were not what I intended to type.  It gets worse over time. What is wrong? Is it due to stress or some mental issue? Is it another sign of burning out due to the teaching job?

When you are asking strangers on a pseudonymous internet forum whether you have mental issues, you can be sure you have lost your way.

Seek professional help from someone competent to help.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

hamburger

Quote from: polly_mer on May 06, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 03:01:09 PM
Thanks all for the helpful suggestions. I noticed that when I got annoyed, I typed things that were not what I intended to type.  It gets worse over time. What is wrong? Is it due to stress or some mental issue? Is it another sign of burning out due to the teaching job?

That's normal stress and, yes, that's an indication that you should put energy into finding another job.

Thanks. At least I am not crazy.

I heard from a reliable source that my CC has financial issue. Are foreign students going home due to the pandemic?

Haven't been contacted to teach for the summer term. Most colleagues who have a full-time position do not seem to be happier or less stressful. It is a dead-end. People from the Business school and ELS teacher are hired to be heads of departments in STEM. I know somebody working as a student advisor during the day and teaching as a "professor" in the evening. She does not even has a degree from university. Meanwhile, they don't like to give people with a PhD enough hours to be part of the union and get health benefits.  Many senior colleagues have told me that the CC only cares about profits and cutting costs. Even students know about it.


mahagonny

Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 04:13:37 PM
Quote from: polly_mer on May 06, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
Quote from: hamburger on May 06, 2020, 03:01:09 PM
Thanks all for the helpful suggestions. I noticed that when I got annoyed, I typed things that were not what I intended to type.  It gets worse over time. What is wrong? Is it due to stress or some mental issue? Is it another sign of burning out due to the teaching job?

That's normal stress and, yes, that's an indication that you should put energy into finding another job.

Thanks. At least I am not crazy.

I heard from a reliable source that my CC has financial issue. Are foreign students going home due to the pandemic?

Haven't been contacted to teach for the summer term. Most colleagues who have a full-time position do not seem to be happier or less stressful. It is a dead-end. People from the Business school and ELS teacher are hired to be heads of departments in STEM. I know somebody working as a student advisor during the day and teaching as a "professor" in the evening. She does not even has a degree from university. Meanwhile, they don't like to give people with a PhD enough hours to be part of the union and get health benefits.  Many senior colleagues have told me that the CC only cares about profits and cutting costs. Even students know about it.

See, not to rub it in, but here your reasoning isn't right. By your own admission your students aren't doing well in your course. So it's obvious that's why others are getting the assignments.
Of course, adjuncts have to compete with each other for a few morsels and it sucks. But that's standard practice. If your teaching were more successful, you'd get more sections. Maybe you'll be able to do something about it. Good luck!
One more idea: if after trying some of these improvements on your checklist, your teaching goes better, let them hear from you.