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Started by aside, June 05, 2019, 09:01:13 PM

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mahagonny

Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 09:43:44 PM
I'll be watching your responses to see if that is true.
Great! 

Will you also be avoiding absurd and unsubstantiated claims/speculations about other people's motives?  That would be lovely!

I can't promise you I won't continue to pay more attention to what people do than to what they say.

namazu

Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 09:43:44 PM
I'll be watching your responses to see if that is true.
Will you also be avoiding absurd and unsubstantiated claims/speculations about other people's motives?  That would be lovely!
I can't promise you I won't continue to pay more attention to what people do than to what they say.
Fair enough, but that's not what I asked.

marshwiggle

Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 06:27:52 PM
Consider that there might be more "regulars", and more vibrant, engaging discussions, if people felt they could get a word in edgewise.

...And if every fourth thread weren't hijacked by the same handful of posters flogging their same few dead horses.  It's boorish and unconstructive to derail thread after unrelated thread to rehash the same tired arguments ad nauseam.  Most recently, the "what went wrong with academe and coronavirus" thread seems to have devolved into yet another pointless, off-topic "won't someone think of the adjuncts" vs. "beware the adjunct 'death march'" back-and-forth.  The "COVID and contingent faculty" thread has been overtaken by ad hominems about "failed academics", and so on...

"Civility" and "niceness" should not be invoked as cover to quash principled, honest disagreement.  And I love a well-placed zinger as much as the next guy.  But rudeness (which shows up in things like hijacking threads, calling people out as trolls too quickly or devaluing infrequent contributors, and being needlessly condescending or smarmy or cruelly snarky) does not make for a more vibrant forum.

I don't advocate heavy-handed moderation, and as a moderator on another forum, I appreciate the thankless work that goes into keeping the lights on.  That said, it would be nice if a few people would step back and quit running their mouths fingers every now and then  -- not because their ideas are odious or unworthy of consideration, but because their constant repetition and/or preening is tiresome.  But that might be too much to ask.  Since they occasionally have worthwhile things to say, I'm hesitant to ignore them altogether.  And of course, perhaps those tired arguments constitute the bulk of what remains here because so many other would-be participants have been turned off and left.

I've created a new thread to discuss this.
It takes so little to be above average.

mahagonny

Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 10:13:02 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 09:43:44 PM
I'll be watching your responses to see if that is true.
Will you also be avoiding absurd and unsubstantiated claims/speculations about other people's motives?  That would be lovely!
I can't promise you I won't continue to pay more attention to what people do than to what they say.
Fair enough, but that's not what I asked.

I'm not sure what, specifically, bothers you but it may be this: if I say 'the tenure track hoards money, professional development opportunities, promotion opportunities, policymaking decisions, benefits, recognition in the field and workspace' then nobody's motives look good. Can bad things happen when people with only decent motives are present? Maybe. Does anyone care if the statement is true or not? Maybe. Do somebody's motives come out looking bad? Maybe. If so, whose? Matter of opinion. Will somebody be offended? Certainly. But that's not my problem. My problem is 'tell the truth about how the system works.'

FishProf

"Truth" is a pretty grandiose claim. 
I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.

mahagonny

Quote from: FishProf on April 14, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
"Truth" is a pretty grandiose claim.

Saying it or looking for it?

Quote from: mahagonny on April 14, 2020, 10:21:48 AM
Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 10:13:02 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Quote from: namazu on April 13, 2020, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: mahagonny on April 13, 2020, 09:43:44 PM
I'll be watching your responses to see if that is true.
Will you also be avoiding absurd and unsubstantiated claims/speculations about other people's motives?  That would be lovely!
I can't promise you I won't continue to pay more attention to what people do than to what they say.
Fair enough, but that's not what I asked.

I'm not sure what, specifically, bothers you but it may be this: if I say 'the tenure track hoards money, professional development opportunities, promotion opportunities, policymaking decisions, benefits, recognition in the field and workspace' then nobody's motives look good. Can bad things happen when people with only decent motives are present? Maybe. Does anyone care if the statement is true or not? Maybe. Do somebody's motives come out looking bad? Maybe. If so, whose? Matter of opinion. Will somebody be offended? Certainly. But that's not my problem. My problem is 'tell the truth about how the system works.'

FishProf

Quote from: mahagonny on April 15, 2020, 02:42:15 AM
Quote from: FishProf on April 14, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
"Truth" is a pretty grandiose claim.

Saying it or looking for it?

Quote from: mahagonny on April 14, 2020, 10:21:48 AM


Claiming it.  At which point, one is typically no longer looking for it.
I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.

mahagonny

#142
Quote from: FishProf on April 14, 2020, 10:37:36 AM

Claiming it.  At which point, one is typically no longer looking for it.

How does this suspect outcome compare with total apathy?

QuoteI'm not sure what, specifically, bothers you but it may be this: if I say 'the tenure track hoards money, professional development opportunities, promotion opportunities, policymaking decisions, benefits, recognition in the field and workspace' then nobody's motives look good.

Left out a few things: equipment, course offering opportunities, teaching assistants, office hours.

polly_mer

<unrelated>

I have some bad news for you on the path you're on if one of your personal top values is stability.

I will indeed say, "I informed you thusly", when the time comes and it will definitely be gloating before I help you brainstorm on the next step.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!

FishProf

Quote from: mahagonny on April 15, 2020, 07:25:09 AM
Quote from: FishProf on April 14, 2020, 10:37:36 AM

Claiming it.  At which point, one is typically no longer looking for it.

How does this suspect outcome compare with total apathy?

QuoteI'm not sure what, specifically, bothers you but it may be this: if I say 'the tenure track hoards money, professional development opportunities, promotion opportunities, policymaking decisions, benefits, recognition in the field and workspace' then nobody's motives look good.

Left out a few things: equipment, course offering opportunities, teaching assistants, office hours.

I didn't understand your first response.  Your second is more of the same.

You have a particular experience as an adjunct.  SPADFY.

Acting as if your experience is the only "TRUTH" and your judgement about those you see as antagonists is tiresome and not very useful.  You are alienating the very people who could contribute to a solution (and many who already are).
I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.

mahagonny

#145
Unrelated


This is the kind of whining and foot stomping that gives unions a bad name. Then the people at the bottom of the food chain pay for it when they try to get a cost of living raise or access to health insurance pool.

I have email work to do with students right now on what used to be my day off. Scanning and sending PDF's from yesterday's class that normally would have been paper handouts. Things are tough all over!

mahagonny

#146
Quote from: FishProf on April 17, 2020, 06:33:32 AM

I didn't understand your first response.  Your second is more of the same.


And you are more of the same. You think people should defer to you as a matter of custom.

Quote
Acting as if your experience is the only "TRUTH" and your judgement about those you see as antagonists is tiresome and not very useful.  You are alienating the very people who could contribute to a solution (and many who already are).

I'm sure it is tiresome. I just don't see why your being tired of reading about problems  is a matter of general concern.

QuoteYou have a particular experience as an adjunct.  SPADFY.

Right I expect some places it's better and some it's worse. there aren't too many who log on and say 'sure...fuck the adjuncts. That's how it works, isn't it?'

FishProf

I have never said or suggested ANY of the things you just accused me of - but thanks for making my point.
I'd rather have questions I can't answer, than answers I can't question.

bacardiandlime

Poster starts a thread identical to the one they started before. Like they were hoping for a different answer.

polly_mer

Quote from: bacardiandlime on April 18, 2020, 03:38:19 AM
Poster starts a thread identical to the one they started before. Like they were hoping for a different answer.

Hope springs eternal in many hearts, especially in the face of all evidence and unexpected consensus on probable outcomes.  Those underdog movies are very influential among certain adults.

<unrelated>
Our trips to the grocery store are not great.  We have been unable to get facial tissue for a month.  Meat is iffy, especially if you'd like a particular type at less than several multiples of the normal cost.  Fresh vegetables were iffy under normal conditions this time of year; now, canned is very much preferred as being much less wasteful.  I haven't gone myself, but I don't see any reason why Mr. Mer would be lying about what we can get and why facial tissue has not been bought when he's the allergy sufferer.
Quote from: hmaria1609 on June 27, 2019, 07:07:43 PM
Do whatever you want--I'm just the background dancer in your show!