Author Topic: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why  (Read 1162 times)

mahagonny

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mahagonny

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2020, 02:54:10 PM »
Here's a place where they don't capitalize it, and it's in a transcription of a speech given by a black man. I guess if lower case 'b' does not get banished, it will serve to signify which party the editor belongs to.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/08/26/jack_brewer_im_fed_up_with_the_way_media_portrays_trump_what_he_has_done_for_black_community.html

dismalist

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2020, 03:46:29 PM »
The article lacks symmetry, completely. On its own arguments, at the end, "White" should be capitalized.

Both English and German [plus a few small geographically nearby language relatives] have had their ups and downs with capitalization. It started off in the 15th century [printing press?], and was not confined to nouns, as it is in modern German. Instead, important words were capitalized in both languages.

That's why "Black" is capitalized and "white" is not.

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spork

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2020, 04:03:56 PM »
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

You seem to be very fixated on race. Are you black? Or Black? Did a black or Black person get a job that you didn't get?
It's terrible writing, used to obfuscate the fact that the authors actually have nothing to say.

financeguy

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2020, 07:06:19 PM »
It's not that he is fixated. The entire country/media/education system seems to be. My entire drive an hour ago had someone discussing race on the news as related to Wisconsin. The last couple days I've heard people openly stating that the president is NOT a racist at a the convention. Prior to that I heard nothing but discussion about the race of a VP candidate. (Should it be a woman of color? Is this particular one "African American" or just "Black?"  Is that good/bad or enough to silence people that think it would be bad if white?) If you're not hearing this or something similar all the time, I would like space in that bubble.

Btw, any white person who is of moderate experience has probably applied for enough jobs that they've "not gotten" quite a few. (Doesn't the average academic apply for 2-300 if in a competitive field like English or History? At least 50 or so in other fields?) It's quite likely that someone of another race got some of those jobs and at least possible that in some of those situations race was the reason. Since transparency is not one of the features of race based preferences, you never really know. The fact that so many people wonder if that is or is not the case is probably not good for the unsuccessful applicant, society as a whole, the person who did get the job or the groups to which either belong.

mahagonny

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2020, 07:24:30 PM »
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

You seem to be very fixated on race. Are you black? Or Black? Did a black or Black person get a job that you didn't get?

I am, as the author would say, lilly white. Fair skin, blond hair ( now grayish) easily sunburned. I'm the guy who could travel to Jamaica and the vendors could take one look at me and tell how many days ago the plane landed. Too much sunburn, leave him alone, he's already spent his money.
Certain black Americans and many white progressives in my schools and in the media appear, en masse, to want me to do something about racism, specifically, white against black racism. They've put the ball in my court. Although I guess I could just keep my mouth shut and try to avoid trouble. But there's a part of me that is inquisitive and a part of me that can be roused. Maybe, like a polecat. Also I'm interested in words, grammar, style, etc.
Although it might be best to make the thread about ideas, and less about individual forumites.
I may appear to be fixated on race on this forum, but this forum is only one piece of my life. I'm interested in what academics have to say about race, but I also wonder how they fit into the problem of the USA having such strife with issues about race, still.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 07:39:11 PM by mahagonny »

mouseman

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2020, 08:52:29 PM »
Although I guess I could just keep my mouth shut

This is not a bad idea in cases in which you not only have almost no knowledge of the topic, but what you think that you know is wrong.
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mahagonny

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2021, 05:38:33 AM »
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

You seem to be very fixated on race. Are you black? Or Black? Did a black or Black person get a job that you didn't get?

You seemed to be fixated on me and not the topic. You're commenting on the commenters, not the discussion.

Here's an interesting examination by John McWhorter:  https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/why-im-not-writing-black

"In the end, calling for “Black” will, to a large extent, make non-black people toe a line, capitalizing that b with a look two parts concern, one part genuflection and a dollop of fear."

Yes. It's activism. It conveys a sense that something is being rectified. Otherwise, the campaign would decree that white would get capitalized too. It's an attempt to put one camp's activism into everyday language where it can't be refuted.

Although I guess I could just keep my mouth shut

This is not a bad idea in cases in which you not only have almost no knowledge of the topic, but what you think that you know is wrong.


<expletive deleted>
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 12:04:01 AM by Parasaurolophus »

mamselle

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2021, 06:10:51 AM »
https://www.cjr.org/analysis/capital-b-black-styleguide.php

You seem to be very fixated on race. Are you black? Or Black? Did a black or Black person get a job that you didn't get?

You seemed to be fixated on me and not the topic. You're commenting on the commenters, not the discussion.

Here's an interesting examination by John McWhorter:  https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/why-im-not-writing-black

"In the end, calling for “Black” will, to a large extent, make non-black people toe a line, capitalizing that b with a look two parts concern, one part genuflection and a dollop of fear."

Yes. It's activism. It conveys a sense that something is being rectified. Otherwise, the campaign would decree that white would get capitalized too. It's an attempt to put one camp's activism into everyday language where it can't be refuted.

Although I guess I could just keep my mouth shut

This is not a bad idea in cases in which you not only have almost no knowledge of the topic, but what you think that you know is wrong.


<expletive deleted>

Your final response is totally inappropriate.

Reported.

M.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 12:04:19 AM by Parasaurolophus »
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apl68

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2021, 07:19:01 AM »
Mahagonny, I came onto this thread intending to engage with you on the subject in a sympathetic manner.  I understand the annoyance caused by the aggressive power grabs of the Language Police of recent years.  And yet, as I and others have tried to point out to you before, it's just not worth getting so obsessively worked up over.  You need to calm down, for your own good and that of those around you.

And your last post is a case in point.  That was absolutely uncalled for.  You're acting like a troll, and if you don't understand that, I don't know what anybody can say to help you to see it.
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mahagonny

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2021, 07:33:57 AM »
Mahagonny, I came onto this thread intending to engage with you on the subject in a sympathetic manner.  I understand the annoyance caused by the aggressive power grabs of the Language Police of recent years.  And yet, as I and others have tried to point out to you before, it's just not worth getting so obsessively worked up over.  You need to calm down, for your own good and that of those around you.

And your last post is a case in point.  That was absolutely uncalled for.  You're acting like a troll, and if you don't understand that, I don't know what anybody can say to help you to see it.

You know, more and more I am thinking, why bother. This forum is incapable of discussing current affairs. The mob either intentionally disrupts the discussion or someone tries to make a spectacle of the poster who is not far left instead of engaging on the questions. It's not surprising in a way. The COVID-era shift to the far left by the democrats has meant that while excesses like indoctrination of schoolchildren and other unhealthy fixations on race are obviously bombing with wider America, it's increasingly obvious that this pernicious intellectual junk has come from academia. So people here are just going to wait till it plays out and act like nothing happened.
And I would disagree that it's not worth getting worked up over. If nothing makes you fight, you don't have morals.
I would expect that these 'progressive' ideas are winning in a venue like this one, but they are losing in wider America. Yet there are serious practical concerns for academics today who are offended by far-left agenda such as how are they going to deal with the social justice (on steroids) (as defined by one party in a two party nation) 'training' in the fall?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 07:59:50 AM by mahagonny »

Parasaurolophus

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2021, 08:01:20 AM »
I'm far left, with an emphasis on far. But make no mistake: most of the posters here aren't (including some you've interacted with in this very thread, who definitely aren't).
I know it's a genus.

mahagonny

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2021, 09:08:42 AM »
I'm far left, with an emphasis on far. But make no mistake: most of the posters here aren't (including some you've interacted with in this very thread, who definitely aren't).

Oh, I always look forward to what finance guy and dismalist write. Spork and Mouseman are clearly just trying to be pests, and mam'selle is doing her goody two shoes 'I'm a pillar of the fora community' thing. They are all well left of center when they're being more serious. Your ideas are sometimes outrageous to me but at least you go to the trouble and courtesy to state them.

The left has recently moved farther to the left, sharply, while the right has moved rightward, only slightly. So says this writer.

https://jabberwocking.com/if-you-hate-the-culture-wars-blame-liberals/

The academy is barely recognizable to me at this point. whereas the 'diversity' staff used to be there to boost consumption of 'scholarly' research, shield the administration from lawsuits and occasionally waste our time with their platitudes and boring presentations, they are now the 'diversity, inclusion and equity' staff. They are noticeably aggrandized and looking seriously at overhauling curriculum, grading, etc. If this forum is serious about student learning outcomes it will get busy, like soon, and begin delving into these issues.
The sweeping changes in K-12 for fall and associated controversy/pushback from parents' groups are likewise neglected herein. In the news front and center and should be.

ETA: more...https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-you-e5f
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 09:24:09 AM by mahagonny »

Sun_Worshiper

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2021, 11:29:30 AM »
Mahagonny, I came onto this thread intending to engage with you on the subject in a sympathetic manner.  I understand the annoyance caused by the aggressive power grabs of the Language Police of recent years.  And yet, as I and others have tried to point out to you before, it's just not worth getting so obsessively worked up over.  You need to calm down, for your own good and that of those around you.

And your last post is a case in point.  That was absolutely uncalled for.  You're acting like a troll, and if you don't understand that, I don't know what anybody can say to help you to see it.

You know, more and more I am thinking, why bother. This forum is incapable of discussing current affairs. The mob either intentionally disrupts the discussion or someone tries to make a spectacle of the poster who is not far left instead of engaging on the questions. It's not surprising in a way. The COVID-era shift to the far left by the democrats has meant that while excesses like indoctrination of schoolchildren and other unhealthy fixations on race are obviously bombing with wider America, it's increasingly obvious that this pernicious intellectual junk has come from academia. So people here are just going to wait till it plays out and act like nothing happened.
And I would disagree that it's not worth getting worked up over. If nothing makes you fight, you don't have morals.
I would expect that these 'progressive' ideas are winning in a venue like this one, but they are losing in wider America. Yet there are serious practical concerns for academics today who are offended by far-left agenda such as how are they going to deal with the social justice (on steroids) (as defined by one party in a two party nation) 'training' in the fall?

Mahagonny, if you want people to engage with you then do the following: (1) Create an interesting thread that asks a thoughtful question about a topic that people care about; (2) provide evidence to show that this is not something trivial or anecdotal, as opposed to shallow talking points unaccompanied by evidence; (3) instead of attacking or getting hyperdefensive with everyone who disagrees with you, provide thoughtful responses that engage with the evidence that they offer. This thread fails on all three points, which is probably why nobody feels like engaging it in a serious way.


spork

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Re: 'Black' with a capital 'B' Always, and Why
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2021, 11:57:51 AM »
DNFTT
It's terrible writing, used to obfuscate the fact that the authors actually have nothing to say.