So, I was at a nearby CC while they were having a local voter registration drive. All sorts of local groups were included.
Got to chatting with the gentleman who told me he was Chair of the local Republican Party.
"So," I asked, "Are there a lot of you here in this county?"
CRP: Nope, we're a minority but we try!
We chatted in a friendly non-partisan way about politics, my Dad being a Kennedy Republican, etc. Anyway, there was a young man (YM) standing with him so I asked him why he was a Republican.
YM: I just want to be myself and express myself and I feel like as a Republican I can do that.
He appeared to be of Latinx/Pacific Islander descent but I wasn't sure. I decided not to try and unpack that R's have been trying to chase people who look like him and his parents out of the country but hey...
Me (to CRP): So what are the priorities of the local County Republican Party?
CRP: We are very concerned about transgenderism and kids getting surgery and hormone blockers!
Me: Well, that doesn't really happen with young children, and it's pretty rare with teens and young adults as well.
CRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
CRP: According to Bill Maher, only 1% of Boomers identified as gay. Today it's like 20%. I think they are just being brainwashed into "coming out" because it's fashionable.
Me: Or, they are just more comfortable coming out, or exploring that identity?
CRP: Maybe but that's the wrong reason.
Really? That is the priority of California Republicans? Geez, no wonder they are such a small minority in this state! If that's all they can get excited about...
Rightly or wrongly, identity and cultural issues are more urgent and visible to many people than fiscal policies or questions of foreign aid. I think Ciao's response is probably part of the reason that many side with the Republicans on these issues.
Person on the street: "I am very worried about these things."
Democratic party: "Worried? About those trivialities? Are you kidding? When the truth and obvious paths are very clear and any other view is so clearly wrong? And we're already on the side of right, so I don't know why you're even thinking about these things for one second. And these things don't matter anyway! That's why we're intransigent in our policies about them. Go away and come back to the Democrats when you're a grown-up."
Dismissive, contemptuous, inflexible. The Democrats are going to lose a lot of support with this approach. And I say that as a lifelong Democrat.
These are the issues energizing a large segment of the Republican base, even if they aren't likely to be among the most salient issues for voters nationwide or even statewide in most places.
I'm old enough to remember when the bogeyman du jour was critical race theory, black lives matter, political correctness, gay marriage, evolution...
They've latched on to trans people for the moment, but their moth-brains will move on to some other existential bogeyman before too long.
Meanwhile, Texas, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, etc. lead the nation in consumption of trans porn, and the right wing corners of the intarwebz are obsessed with "sissification".
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 23, 2023, 08:27:31 PMI'm old enough to remember when the bogeyman du jour was critical race theory, black lives matter, political correctness, gay marriage, evolution...
They've latched on to trans people for the moment, but their moth-brains will move on to some other existential bogeyman before too long.
Meanwhile, Texas, Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri, etc. lead the nation in consumption of trans porn, and the right wing corners of the intarwebz are obsessed with "sissification".
Exactly. They latch onto emotionally resonant issues (cutting off 6-year-old boys' penises because the kid suddenly wants to be a girl!) as a distraction then hope to keep voters in a constant state of outrage.
Outrage is exhausting.
CRT is over already? That was fast.
Quote from: Hegemony on September 23, 2023, 01:34:26 PMRightly or wrongly, identity and cultural issues are more urgent and visible to many people than fiscal policies or questions of foreign aid. I think Ciao's response is probably part of the reason that many side with the Republicans on these issues.
Person on the street: "I am very worried about these things."
Democratic party: "Worried? About those trivialities? Are you kidding? When the truth and obvious paths are very clear and any other view is so clearly wrong? And we're already on the side of right, so I don't know why you're even thinking about these things for one second. And these things don't matter anyway! That's why we're intransigent in our policies about them. Go away and come back to the Democrats when you're a grown-up."
Dismissive, contemptuous, inflexible. The Democrats are going to lose a lot of support with this approach. And I say that as a lifelong Democrat.
To be clear, I was paraphrasing. I kept the conversation light and friendly, and later even introduced the guy to my husband when he came to meet me.
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 23, 2023, 12:08:59 PMCRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
If this is serious, then it's absolutely
terrifying that teachers (and others, like medical professionals), would be in favour of "gender-affirming" medical treatment with lifelong consequences.
Anything non-reversible, ( which includes anything medical), shouldn't be undertaken without serious long-term objective evaluation of how deeply this goes. Not doing so is professional malpractice.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 24, 2023, 11:53:06 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 23, 2023, 12:08:59 PMCRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
If this is serious, then it's absolutely terrifying that teachers (and others, like medical professionals), would be in favour of "gender-affirming" medical treatment with lifelong consequences.
Anything non-reversible, ( which includes anything medical), shouldn't be undertaken without serious long-term objective evaluation of how deeply this goes. Not doing so is professional malpractice.
Happily, name and pronoun use are 100% reversible!
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 24, 2023, 11:53:06 AMAnything non-reversible, ( which includes anything medical), shouldn't be undertaken without serious long-term objective evaluation of how deeply this goes. Not doing so is professional malpractice.
And doctors don't and haven't done this?
Don't read too much into any given reason as to why someone aligns with one party when you ask them that question on the spot. I find it is more of a culture and tribal identity thing.
Quote from: Anselm on September 24, 2023, 06:41:13 PMDon't read too much into any given reason as to why someone aligns with one party when you ask them that question on the spot. I find it is more of a culture and tribal identity thing.
I agree. I framed the question as "What are the priorities of the local county party?"
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 24, 2023, 11:53:06 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 23, 2023, 12:08:59 PMCRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
If this is serious, then it's absolutely terrifying that teachers (and others, like medical professionals), would be in favour of "gender-affirming" medical treatment with lifelong consequences.
Yes. Isn't it horrible when, unbeknownst to the parents, a teacher sends a 6-year-old boy to the school nurse to have his penis cut off because he was pretending to be Belle when all the kids were playing Beauty and The Beast?
Hate it when that happens.
Happened twice last week.
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 25, 2023, 08:40:34 AMQuote from: marshwiggle on September 24, 2023, 11:53:06 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 23, 2023, 12:08:59 PMCRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
If this is serious, then it's absolutely terrifying that teachers (and others, like medical professionals), would be in favour of "gender-affirming" medical treatment with lifelong consequences.
Yes. Isn't it horrible when, unbeknownst to the parents, a teacher sends a 6-year-old boy to the school nurse to have his penis cut off because he was pretending to be Belle when all the kids were playing Beauty and The Beast?
Hate it when that happens.
Happened twice last week.
If the teacher is not
actually running a role-playing game in the classroom, then the teacher should not be using pronouns for children that differ from those correct for the child's sex*. The teacher should help children understand the difference between fantasy and reality, so that everyone clearly distinguishes between statements made during something like a role-playing exercise and those made in normal conversation.
*Since the teacher cannot distinguish between role-playing and gender dysphoria, the teacher should not pretend to diagnose the latter, anymore than they should try to diagnose any sort of medical condition a student may or may not have. And like any medical condition, without a registered medical diagnosis, the teacher should not assume one exists.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 25, 2023, 08:55:03 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 25, 2023, 08:40:34 AMQuote from: marshwiggle on September 24, 2023, 11:53:06 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 23, 2023, 12:08:59 PMCRP: And teachers are allowed to hide from parents when their kids are "transitioning!"
Me: I'm not sure how teachers are expected to discern normal role-playing games and identity experiments from something to tell parents to be concerned about.
If this is serious, then it's absolutely terrifying that teachers (and others, like medical professionals), would be in favour of "gender-affirming" medical treatment with lifelong consequences.
Yes. Isn't it horrible when, unbeknownst to the parents, a teacher sends a 6-year-old boy to the school nurse to have his penis cut off because he was pretending to be Belle when all the kids were playing Beauty and The Beast?
Hate it when that happens.
Happened twice last week.
If the teacher is not actually running a role-playing game in the classroom, then the teacher should not be using pronouns for children that differ from those correct for the child's sex*. The teacher should help children understand the difference between fantasy and reality, so that everyone clearly distinguishes between statements made during something like a role-playing exercise and those made in normal conversation.
*Since the teacher cannot distinguish between role-playing and gender dysphoria, the teacher should not pretend to diagnose the latter, anymore than they should try to diagnose any sort of medical condition a student may or may not have. And like any medical condition, without a registered medical diagnosis, the teacher should not assume one exists.
So, now teachers have to go and approve, on the playground, who plays which role in a game? Because apparently kids don't understand the concept of 'pretend'?
I, for one, applaud this brave new regimen of pulling down the kids' pants at the beginning of the year, just so that teachers will get it right. Maybe if they get a good look at his penis, people will stop thinking my son is my daughter.
I run a parent-and-tot singalong. One day, a four year-old came in and told us she was a lion. We all indulged her, but I see now we did irreparable harm and she's destined to become a furry.
True story:
My sister is a pediatrician. A pair of twins joined her practice.
One day, one twin, aged 3 or 4, asked "Mommy, why don't I have a penis?" Because, you're a girl. "No, I'm a boy, and my name is Jack."
So the parents decided to just go with it.
When the kids came in for their check up, Jack pulled my sister aside. "Doctor E, you are aware that I don't have a penis, right?"
Not sure what Jack is up to now.
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 25, 2023, 08:58:00 AMQuote from: marshwiggle on September 25, 2023, 08:55:03 AMIf the teacher is not actually running a role-playing game in the classroom, then the teacher should not be using pronouns for children that differ from those correct for the child's sex*. The teacher should help children understand the difference between fantasy and reality, so that everyone clearly distinguishes between statements made during something like a role-playing exercise and those made in normal conversation.
*Since the teacher cannot distinguish between role-playing and gender dysphoria, the teacher should not pretend to diagnose the latter, anymore than they should try to diagnose any sort of medical condition a student may or may not have. And like any medical condition, without a registered medical diagnosis, the teacher should not assume one exists.
So, now teachers have to go and approve, on the playground, who plays which role in a game? Because apparently kids don't understand the concept of 'pretend'?
The teacher is responsible for what language they and students use
in their classrooms. The playground isn't their problem, (and that's not what parents are worried about).
Quote from: Parasaurolophus on September 25, 2023, 09:04:15 AMI, for one, applaud this brave new regimen of pulling down the kids' pants at the beginning of the year, just so that teachers will get it right. Maybe if they get a good look at his penis, people will stop thinking my son is my daughter.
That information wasn't required as part of the student's registration? I guess times have indeed changed.
QuoteI run a parent-and-tot singalong. One day, a four year-old came in and told us she was a lion. We all indulged her, but I see now we did irreparable harm and she's destined to become a furry.
If the leaders
require all of the other kids and adults to go along with it, it's getting out of hand.
Quote from: ciao_yall on September 25, 2023, 09:12:26 AMTrue story:
My sister is a pediatrician. A pair of twins joined her practice.
One day, one twin, aged 3 or 4, asked "Mommy, why don't I have a penis?" Because, you're a girl. "No, I'm a boy, and my name is Jack."
So the parents decided to just go with it.
When the kids came in for their check up, Jack pulled my sister aside. "Doctor E, you are aware that I don't have a penis, right?"
Not sure what Jack is up to now.
I would assume that if your sister had to actually examine "Jack"'s genitals, she would have used the proper terms to explain what she was doing, and would similarly do so in any medical reports, rather than using whatever terminology "Jack" requested.
Quote from: marshwiggle on September 25, 2023, 09:23:05 AMQuote from: ciao_yall on September 25, 2023, 08:58:00 AMQuote from: marshwiggle on September 25, 2023, 08:55:03 AMIf the teacher is not actually running a role-playing game in the classroom, then the teacher should not be using pronouns for children that differ from those correct for the child's sex*. The teacher should help children understand the difference between fantasy and reality, so that everyone clearly distinguishes between statements made during something like a role-playing exercise and those made in normal conversation.
*Since the teacher cannot distinguish between role-playing and gender dysphoria, the teacher should not pretend to diagnose the latter, anymore than they should try to diagnose any sort of medical condition a student may or may not have. And like any medical condition, without a registered medical diagnosis, the teacher should not assume one exists.
So, now teachers have to go and approve, on the playground, who plays which role in a game? Because apparently kids don't understand the concept of 'pretend'?
The teacher is responsible for what language they and students use in their classrooms. The playground isn't their problem, (and that's not what parents are worried about).
A parent sees what their child is wearing to school, what toys they ask for, with whom, and how they play, with their friends. I can't believe for a second that a parent wouldn't have a clue that their child was exploring gender identity one way or the other, and needed the school to tell them what was going on.
And kids are sensitive to the opinions of other kids, and how they will likely react if they choose to use a different name, pronouns or bathrooms. They will do what feels right to them and if their peers are accepting, great! If not, they will probably lie low or choose when/how to share their thoughts about their gender identity.
What? My little girl, who leaves the house every day in a frilly dress and pigtails, is changing into a secret stash of jeans/t-shirts, telling everyone HIS name is Jack and using the boy's bathroom?