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Cancelling Dr. Seuss

Started by apl68, March 12, 2021, 09:36:21 AM

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Wahoo Redux

I see your point, Marshy, but I do think there is a difference between teaching factual subject matter, no matter how uncomfortable for some, and lionizing slave owners on public land.

I don't know why we cannot teach in equal measure that the Founding Fathers were slaveowners and that they also crafted the beauty of the Constitution, essentially the flip-sides and paradox of American culture, which allows us to talk about them. 
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

onthefringe

Quote from: marshwiggle on May 13, 2022, 09:25:37 AM

It's kind of a rich irony coming from the same people who want to get rid of statues, rename public monuments, etc. in order to "protect people" from having to see those reminders of history.

Yes, history is messy and uncomfortable if presented in its entirety, whether that's in school or in public reminders of it.

It's not to protect people  from seeing reminders of history, it's to stop celebrating shameful aspects of history.

marshwiggle

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 13, 2022, 09:53:22 AM
I see your point, Marshy, but I do think there is a difference between teaching factual subject matter, no matter how uncomfortable for some, and lionizing slave owners on public land.

I don't know why we cannot teach in equal measure that the Founding Fathers were slaveowners and that they also crafted the beauty of the Constitution, essentially the flip-sides and paradox of American culture, which allows us to talk about them.

Taught in the context that slave ownership of one sort or another has been practiced all over the *world and all through history, then admitting that the Founding Fathers were products of their culture is completely reasonable.

As far as statues go, it would be far better (IMHO) to add a plaque to a statue outlining the contradictions about some historical figure than simply removing the statue.

It is absolutely impossible to learn anything from history if everything is just viewed from the lens of the current moment, since the whole idea of progress involves people changing their views and attitudes over time, and in a similar way people who are viewed as "heroes" today will be viewed as "villains" at some point in the future.




(* And contrary to what Roots would have you believe, Africans captured slaves and sold them to others; it wasn't white people chasing Africans in Africa.)
The Atlantic slave trade: What too few textbooks told you - Anthony Hazard
It takes so little to be above average.

Wahoo Redux

Don't quite know what to make of this one, except to note that this class has been taught for years and only recently became a target:

IHE: University could fire writing professor over deviant pornography
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

marshwiggle

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 08:07:11 AM
Don't quite know what to make of this one, except to note that this class has been taught for years and only recently became a target:

IHE: University could fire writing professor over deviant pornography

A couple of things from the article:
Quote
Rallin says the accusations are based on complaints from three students who took Writing the Body in the fall and from one student outside the course. Only one of the complaints has a clear submission date, but all appear to have been written in December, Rallin also says. Yet Soka only verbally informed them (the pronoun Rallin uses) of the complaints at the end of March, halfway through the spring semester.

It's not clear if the student "outside" the course had ever taken it, but complaints from people who have never taken the course shouldn't count. Too many witch hunts have been instigated and/or fueled by people who had not actually been in the course, but were acting on hearsay. Enough already.

Complaints should be dealt with in a timely manner. If there's a concern about an instructor potentially identifying a complainant and retaliating during grading, then as long as complaints are present after final grades are submitted, there's no reason for further delay.

It takes so little to be above average.

downer

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 08:07:11 AM
Don't quite know what to make of this one, except to note that this class has been taught for years and only recently became a target:

IHE: University could fire writing professor over deviant pornography

The course description is
QuoteBodies as sites of meaning, modes of representation, political signifiers, and lived experiences are of central concern to work across the disciplines. Taking as its purview the production, regulation, and circulation of bodies in the context of late capitalism and globalism, this course considers how bodies are politically, socially, sexually, racially, culturally, metaphorically, and historically constituted, and promotes the invention of insurgent forms for reading and writing bodies that do not reinscribe the body in narrative myths and dualistic structures that dominate conventional understandings of bodies.
https://catalog.soka.edu/writing-program/writ-305-3

The idea that the professor's approach is inappropriate, given that course description, is ridiculous. The students signed up for the course. If they didn't know what they were doing, then there's a problem at the university with advising.

The administration should be ashamed and the interim dean who wrote the letter should resign immediately.

If they don't want such a course offered, they should remove it from the catalog.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

dismalist

Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?
That's not even wrong!
--Wolfgang Pauli

Wahoo Redux

#622
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?

You have to ask Fredric Jameson.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

dismalist

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?

You have to ask Fredric Jameson.

He doesn't know why it's "late", either. He just uses the word "late", letting it mean what he pleases.
That's not even wrong!
--Wolfgang Pauli

Wahoo Redux

Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 09:06:56 AM
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?

You have to ask Fredric Jameson.

He doesn't know why it's "late", either. He just uses the word "late", letting it mean what he pleases.

Yeah, but that's his job.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

dismalist

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 09:06:56 AM
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?

You have to ask Fredric Jameson.

He doesn't know why it's "late", either. He just uses the word "late", letting it mean what he pleases.

Yeah, but that's his job.

It's all true by definition, and only by definition.
That's not even wrong!
--Wolfgang Pauli

downer

Thanks for that edifying scholarly exchange.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."—Sinclair Lewis

Wahoo Redux

Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:10:35 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 09:06:56 AM
Quote from: Wahoo Redux on May 16, 2022, 09:00:46 AM
Quote from: dismalist on May 16, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Quotelate capitalism

How do we know it's late?

You have to ask Fredric Jameson.

He doesn't know why it's "late", either. He just uses the word "late", letting it mean what he pleases.

Yeah, but that's his job.

It's all true by definition, and only by definition.

Maybe you and Fredric should fight after school.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

Wahoo Redux

Quote from: downer on May 16, 2022, 10:07:29 AM
Thanks for that edifying scholarly exchange.

I aim to please.
Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.

Wahoo Redux

Come, fill the Cup, and in the fire of Spring
Your Winter-garment of Repentance fling:
The Bird of Time has but a little way
To flutter--and the Bird is on the Wing.