Deciding Something is a Hate Crime

[nebo113]

UVA Incidents:

1.  The first incident took place last month, when rocks were thrown through the window of a building on Dawson's Row that houses the Office for African American Affairs. Campus police investigated and charged a student for the act of vandalism.

In the email sent this week, university officials said that the student was known to Office for African American Affairs staff members and was motivated by factors unrelated to racial bias.

2.The FBI and campus police found the act was done by an alumnus who is a part of a philanthropic organization that conducts random acts of kindness for students.

3.  But university officials said an incident that took place on Sept. 7 appeared to be a hate crime. A person left a noose around the Homer statue. Security footage from the time shows someone climbing a statue, placing a noose around its neck and leaving the scene by foot, according to campus police.

[Wahoo Redux]

I was on a campus that kept suffering racist "graffiti" scratched on various surfaces around campus.  It received a lot of press in the student newspaper, a march on campus, and a denunciation from the chancellor.  Almost certainly it was one student, and probably it was a prank, although I suspect one would not prank in this manner unless one harbored some of the sentiments expressed in the graffiti.  As far as I know, no one was ever caught. 

So, I think this event could count as a "hate crime hoax."  If it was a "hate crime," it was ineffectual as a criminal enterprise except to make people mad.  The graffiti only agitated the anti-racists, although I suppose one could make the argument that the racist underground was emboldened somehow.

What was the campus supposed to do, however? 

Clean it up?

Um, Marshy, my friend, duh.

And?

Does every drawing on a wall, building, etc. of an item of male anatomy indicate entrenched misogyny and "rape culture", or does it often represent an adolescent who thinks it's edgy to draw? (Given that there are ancient artifacts including exaggerated organs, and given that there are cultures where they dress to have that effect, it's not a recent thing, and it's not going to disappear.)

There will always be a small fringe who like to do transgressive things, and they will get off on publicity that it generates. That doesn't reflect society as a whole in any way, shape, or form, but the publicity will encourage the individuals to continue.

The best way to discourage this behaviour is by quietly and consistently cleaning it up just like a spilled garbage can, with no more fanfare.

I kind of thought the same thing.  This was probably some young adult clinging to adolescent urges and getting his (I always thought it was a dude because it just seemed like a young guy's sort of behavior) jollies watching everyone react.

At the same time, what our graffiti artist generated was a real show of support for the few minorities on campus and a complete rejection of racism in a very public way----don't underestimate how important that is.  Racists rarely react to rational discourse.

In regards to your earlier, very subjective post about "liberals" using "hate crimes" for political purposes, I would counter that "conservatives" are far, far more likely to race bait and use denial of racial animus as a political tactic.   That works quite well on a certain segment of the population.  This is why Trump is so popular with some people.  There are countless examples of Republican politicians implying or outright encouraging people to indulge in their stereotypes and bigotries.  This tactic has really invigorated the Left which, I readily concede, is a bit too willing to jump down the rabbit hole.

But that is no excuse to be in denial yourself.

You've heard about the increase in actual racial violence in the last six years, right?

[apl68]

I was on a campus that kept suffering racist "graffiti" scratched on various surfaces around campus.  It received a lot of press in the student newspaper, a march on campus, and a denunciation from the chancellor.  Almost certainly it was one student, and probably it was a prank, although I suspect one would not prank in this manner unless one harbored some of the sentiments expressed in the graffiti.  As far as I know, no one was ever caught. 

So, I think this event could count as a "hate crime hoax."  If it was a "hate crime," it was ineffectual as a criminal enterprise except to make people mad.  The graffiti only agitated the anti-racists, although I suppose one could make the argument that the racist underground was emboldened somehow.

What was the campus supposed to do, however?  Not reacting might have been the better tack, but then overt racism is not overtly challenged.

I really do wonder what would be the wisest course of action in such cases.  I understand the desire to take a zero-tolerance approach and not let any clearly hate-inspired piece of vandalism go un-denounced by the administration and community.  But it has become fairly clear from the way these things keep happening that for some minute group of trolls out there--maybe just one or two or so for any given campus at any given time--provoking these reflexive displays of political theater is its own reward.  They like the attention.  It seems like college communities are letting these few trolls and knuckleheads have far, far more power and attention than they deserve.  Which kind of plays into their hands.

[mahagonny]

In regards to your earlier, very subjective post about "liberals" using "hate crimes" for political purposes, I would counter that "conservatives" are far, far more likely to race bait and use denial of racial animus as a political tactic. 

I couldn't possibly disagree more.

You've heard about the increase in actual racial violence in the last six years, right?

I suppose you figure the George Floyd riots don't count...?

[Wahoo Redux]

In regards to your earlier, very subjective post about "liberals" using "hate crimes" for political purposes, I would counter that "conservatives" are far, far more likely to race bait and use denial of racial animus as a political tactic. 

I couldn't possibly disagree more.

You've heard about the increase in actual racial violence in the last six years, right?

I suppose you figure the George Floyd riots don't count...?

I suppose the Floyd riots are a different sort of criminality.

But what is it with conservatives who must always play the one-up game?  Seriously, I've had so many of these conversations in which conservative commentators cannot stay on topic but must play the victim.  Why?

[mahagonny]

In regards to your earlier, very subjective post about "liberals" using "hate crimes" for political purposes, I would counter that "conservatives" are far, far more likely to race bait and use denial of racial animus as a political tactic. 

I couldn't possibly disagree more.

You've heard about the increase in actual racial violence in the last six years, right?

I suppose you figure the George Floyd riots don't count...?

I suppose the Floyd riots are a different sort of criminality.

But what is it with conservatives who must always play the one-up game?  Seriously, I've had so many of these conversations in which conservative commentators cannot stay on topic but must play the victim.  Why?

We're frightened. Seven hundred police injured, little things like that. When you get hurt by someone who intended to hurt you, you feel the same way, regardless of what someone thinks the sort of criminality was.
BTW, aren't you worried that you wrote 'Floyd riots' instead of 'mostly peaceful protests?' Are your liberal friends going to like that?
Although I notice a few lately who are edging out of the closet and seem ready to admit they are the party of violence.
If I simply tell you I disagree, how is that one-upsmanship? I call it candor.

[nebo113]

A crowd of people with their arm up and one finger pointed in the air frighten me.

[mahagonny]

A crowd of people with their arm up and one finger pointed in the air frighten me.

Well, again, I passed up two chances to vote for DJT, but that falls in the category of 'you're looking for trouble? guess what? You found it.'

How do you promote surgical, irreversible transgender options to other people's children, children with parents who don't want that for their children, and not understand you're playing with fire?

[marshwiggle]

I was on a campus that kept suffering racist "graffiti" scratched on various surfaces around campus.  It received a lot of press in the student newspaper, a march on campus, and a denunciation from the chancellor.  Almost certainly it was one student, and probably it was a prank, although I suspect one would not prank in this manner unless one harbored some of the sentiments expressed in the graffiti.  As far as I know, no one was ever caught. 

So, I think this event could count as a "hate crime hoax."  If it was a "hate crime," it was ineffectual as a criminal enterprise except to make people mad.  The graffiti only agitated the anti-racists, although I suppose one could make the argument that the racist underground was emboldened somehow.

What was the campus supposed to do, however?  Not reacting might have been the better tack, but then overt racism is not overtly challenged.

I really do wonder what would be the wisest course of action in such cases.  I understand the desire to take a zero-tolerance approach and not let any clearly hate-inspired piece of vandalism go un-denounced by the administration and community.  But it has become fairly clear from the way these things keep happening that for some minute group of trolls out there--maybe just one or two or so for any given campus at any given time--provoking these reflexive displays of political theater is its own reward.  They like the attention.  It seems like college communities are letting these few trolls and knuckleheads have far, far more power and attention than they deserve.  Which kind of plays into their hands.

Exactly. It's kind of surprising how little people learned from Trump. To that kind of person, their ego is the flame and attention is oxygen. They don't care that you hate them (or maybe even enjoy it), but they are ecstatic that you can't stop talking about them.

It's like the 2 year old who throws a tantrum in the store; bigger audience, bigger potential reward. Or the 4 year old saying "poop" when company comes over. If pre-schoolers get it, adults (and especially highly educated ones) should be able to grasp it, but unfortunately they don't.

[mahagonny]

I was on a campus that kept suffering racist "graffiti" scratched on various surfaces around campus.  It received a lot of press in the student newspaper, a march on campus, and a denunciation from the chancellor. 

I wouldn't assume, just because he denounced the act, that the chancellor really minds a public stunt that creates the impression to some of the more ignorant progressives (a large group) that the KKK is in their backyard, thus potentially motivating them to vote blue. Not these days. The democrats being worried about losing their senate majority and all. Is Biden's student loan forgiveness a done deal?

Exactly. It's kind of surprising how little people learned from Trump. To that kind of person, their ego is the flame and attention is oxygen. They don't care that you hate them (or maybe even enjoy it), but they are ecstatic that you can't stop talking about them.

It's like the 2 year old who throws a tantrum in the store; bigger audience, bigger potential reward. Or the 4 year old saying "poop" when company comes over. If pre-schoolers get it, adults (and especially highly educated ones) should be able to grasp it, but unfortunately they don't.

A political reason for the stunt seems more likely given the timing.

[nebo113]

Officially flouncing from any thread with Mahoganny in it.  Said poster is a brick wall, so attempting to engage with said poster is simply a waste of time.  Mahog.....Please accept your victory with any gloating you wish to evince

[mahagonny]

Officially flouncing from any thread with Mahoganny in it.  Said poster is a brick wall, so attempting to engage with said poster is simply a waste of time.  Mahog.....Please accept your victory with any gloating you wish to evince

I did post this upthread, so you could decide to consider that it does occur to me from time to time that people on either side of the debate are genuinely frightened. But simultaneously, I am astonished as to how 'progressives' today can speak with such suspicion and bellicosity, and also appear not to understand how they would be seen as waging war.

If any black student or family is frightened by this experience, you have my sorrow and sympathy. I don't say you shouldn't feel that. Hopefully there is no real threat.

[Wahoo Redux]

appear not to understand how they would be seen as waging war.

Pot meet kettle, Mahag.

Or, conversely, the Right feels victimized and complains bitterly whenever someone points out how irrational, volatile, and sectarian it has become.

NBC: Man Accused of Punching 67 Year Old Asian Woman Please Guilty to Hate Crime

[mahagonny]

Professor: why you're linking that I don't know. Horrible incident. A Black man pummels an Asian woman while saying racist slurs. There again though they had  a history together, so who knows exactly, everything that contributed to the violence. It might be different from a pure 'hate crime' wherein someone attacked or threatens strangers because of their obvious or assumed group membership. I'm not getting how that fits in to our discussion.

Republicans 'sectarian?' I don't see it. If you take republican voters' positions on crime, immigration, gun ownership rights, gender and race questions, how college ought to be paid for, inflation, economy, foreign policy, free market capitalism, they're mainstream, not sectarian or fringe. On abortion it's true most Americans believe there should be some rights to access to legal abortion, that doesn't mean they think the Supreme Court is a bunch of partisan lunatics like the democrats say. Ruth Bader Ginsburg did not like the way the things decided. It's up to the states now. She should be cancelled by the left now.
That wider America is more aligned with republicans than with democrats today only becomes apparent when you look at what people actually believe in the USA. Not when you go by what Americans should believe as decreed by the most visible and outspoken among the media, Hollywood, pro sports, late night TV, entertainment culture, academia.

[secundem_artem]

I really can't be bothered to spend any significant time reading short postings about intractable problems.  Nothing ever accomplished.  Agreement never reached.  The status quo prevails.

But from what I have glanced at in this thread, it does appear that some people have not learned much from their 3 months in a time out.