The mind's eye

[Langue_doc]

I can dream visually and also recall long conversations that happened during dreams. I can also visualize characters and settings when reading books.

[smallcleanrat]

Fascinating conversation. Since I grew up in the age of radio, I heard lots of people long before I ever saw them. Nevertheless I always had a picture in my head of what they looked like. (Of course, if I actually saw them, they never looked at all like what I pictured, but even after that when I heard their voice I'd still often have my original incorrect image of them in my mind.)

Maybe with podcasts and talking books now, some people will still be able to relate.

I kind of wonder if this is why I never really got into reading for pleasure.  My parents and siblings are all avid readers, but I have never really enjoyed it.  I imagine it may be a lot better if there are images that went along with the text.  Same with radio and such.

I always found it odd when people would say someone cast in a movie didn't look like they had imagined from the book.  I never have images of people/places created from reading or listening, so these comments just never clicked for me.

That's interesting. I also don't have a particularly strong ability to mentally visualize things and I've always loved to read.

Although I will admit to supplementing my reading at times with Google image searches if I can't grok the text description (my most recent example was trying to find out what a "sad smile" looks like). When I was younger I used to just gloss over any text that was heavy on sensory descriptions.

I'm in the camp of people who think much more with words than with images. I never got much out of those "imagine yourself on a beautiful beach" exercises.

[sinenomine]

I'm adept with both words and visualizing (I often see words in text in my mind) and freaked out my family years ago when I described in clear detail a vacation rental we stayed at only once and where no photos were taken —- I was a baby when we were there.

[Puget]

I have plenty of vivid memories going all the way back to about the age of three.  They can be dated because we moved to the town where I grew up shortly after I turned four, yet I have quite a few distinct memories of the place where we lived before.  As an adult, I was able to confirm through visits back to the place, and through speaking with my parents, that those very early memories were generally quite accurate.  Within the limits of a child's perception, at least--for instance, what I recall as a wide field between the parsonage where we lived and the church was actually just an ordinary yard.

Three is the average age for first true episodic (event) memories recalled in adulthood, though many people don't have very detailed memories of events before about age 5, and can remain sparse until much later. Some people do have first memories they can recall from age 2, but memories from that young or younger are much more likely to be false memories constructed from seeing pictures/videos and hearing about the events at older ages. These memories can feel absolutely real (and they are real memories, just not of the event itself).

Interestingly, children start forming episodic memories by about 1.5 years, and young children can recall memories from earlier ages, but we lose the ability to recall these memories over time - this is called infantile amnesia. There were many theories about why, but many of them (language, self-concept) were ruled out by the fact that rodents show the same pattern. The current most supported theory is that as the hippocampus continues to develop, it disrupts the ability to retrieve old memories (it would be like if every time new buildings in a city were added, all the addresses changed - the old buildings would still be there, but you would have a hard time finding them).

[RatGuy]

Last term I had a student tell me that since she has no inner monologue, she will often verbalize her thoughts as a way of thinking aloud. She hoped that I didn't think her just being annoying (she wasn't) and I did find her answer interesting.

I believe I've lost the some ability to visualize. On a scale of from nothing(1) to vividly real(5), I'm at a 2ish. Nothing has depth and rarely color. I'm good at spatial orientation but I can barely picture anything on the fly and I can never picture a face. I know I once had this ability, as my reading experiences as a youngster were more concrete.

As some folks said upthread, my dreams are vivid. I do however experience them mostly as a "viewing" rather than an experience; it's as if I'm watching TV rather than actually doing the thing.

I'll also add that my inner monologue is quite loud, and means I get very little peace. When I read, I can hear the voices clearly and can easily "hear" celebrity voices for different narrations and characters. My current favorite voice for a female narrator is Kate Mulgrew.

[apl68]

I'll also add that my inner monologue is quite loud, and means I get very little peace. When I read, I can hear the voices clearly and can easily "hear" celebrity voices for different narrations and characters. My current favorite voice for a female narrator is Kate Mulgrew.

I sometimes "hear" voices like that as well when reading.  Most often when I'm reading fiction, especially in comics form.

[Hegemony]

I know that I have memories from the age of two, and this is why. I remember a little button I had, I mean the kind that has a saying on the front and that you wear like a brooch. Someone had given me the button but my parents wouldn't let me wear it. It was kept in a dish in the bathroom and I would go in there often and say "Is it time yet? Can I wear it yet?" And just be frustrated that they always said, "No, not yet." And then I remember the day the button was finally bestowed on me. Excitement! I could wear the button! I still have the button, and it says "3 YEARS OLD." The day I was finally allowed to wear it was my third birthday, and therefore I know that my memories of not being allowed to wear it yet predated my third birthday.

[ciao_yall]

I know that I have memories from the age of two, and this is why. I remember a little button I had, I mean the kind that has a saying on the front and that you wear like a brooch. Someone had given me the button but my parents wouldn't let me wear it. It was kept in a dish in the bathroom and I would go in there often and say "Is it time yet? Can I wear it yet?" And just be frustrated that they always said, "No, not yet." And then I remember the day the button was finally bestowed on me. Excitement! I could wear the button! I still have the button, and it says "3 YEARS OLD." The day I was finally allowed to wear it was my third birthday, and therefore I know that my memories of not being allowed to wear it yet predated my third birthday.

Yes! Like my very early memories -it's not the same as imagining or reconstructing an event.

Maybe pictures are a reminder but they don't create the memory - it feels different.

There is a picture of me and my younger sister with my dad on the beach. I was 4, she was 3. I remember other things about that trip but she has very vivid memories of us on the beach with him. I think I can remember but it takes more work to recreate those memories versus the ones I know are real living natives of my neural system.

[Parasaurolophus]

Yup, I can 'see' it on the inside. A lot of people I know have reported aphantasia in the last year or so.

I, however, cannot recognize faces. If I'm separated from my partner in a mall, I will actually continue our conversation with any other tall blonde woman in a similar outfit. (To her eternal creepitude, I'm sure.) Until she speaks, at which point my excellent voice recognition kicks in and I apologize profusely.

[Hegemony]

Yes, I also have face blindness. However, I can recognize someone if I've seen a still photo of them — that is, I recognize them as the person depicted in the photo. I'd guess that my mind has interpreted the person in the photo as an object and not as a person.

People in movies, though, are hard to recognize. I was watching a movie with a friend once and one of the characters talked about having lived in Ireland. Later another character was talking about having lived in Ireland. "That's a clue!" I said to my friend. "Two characters and they have both lived in Ireland!" My friend said, "Um, that's the same character."

[sinenomine]

I'm also largely face blind, and rely on voice and context clues. I even have problems identifying people at family gatherings.

[apl68]

I know that I have memories from the age of two, and this is why. I remember a little button I had, I mean the kind that has a saying on the front and that you wear like a brooch. Someone had given me the button but my parents wouldn't let me wear it. It was kept in a dish in the bathroom and I would go in there often and say "Is it time yet? Can I wear it yet?" And just be frustrated that they always said, "No, not yet." And then I remember the day the button was finally bestowed on me. Excitement! I could wear the button! I still have the button, and it says "3 YEARS OLD." The day I was finally allowed to wear it was my third birthday, and therefore I know that my memories of not being allowed to wear it yet predated my third birthday.

I have a vague seeming memory-image, probably from before my third birthday, of seeing my (paternal) grandfather and great-grandfather sitting together in front of what I remember as my grandmother's house.  They both died, not far apart, before I ever had a chance to know them.  That's the closest thing to an actual memory I have of them.  Dad says it's a plausible one, as they liked to sit out in front of the house like that.

[apl68]

Puget, are there any studies you know of regarding possible changes to memories and childhood memories due to changes in the mass-media environment?  When I was a kid, I recall reading that most people dreamed in black and white most of the time.  Dreaming in color was fairly rare.  This matched my own experience, as I recall only very rarely noticing colors when I was dreaming.  I was in my late teens before I have a definite recollection of noticing color in my dreams.

Over the years, I've noticed color in my dreams a bit more often.  I seem to recall reading somewhere that reports of dreaming in color are more common now than they used to be, and that there has been speculation that the monochrome dreams of decades ago were an anomaly caused by a long period when people's visual imagery was dominated by black and white movies and TV.  If there's any truth to that, I wonder what other sorts of changes the media may be making to our dreams and memory imagery?

[Parasaurolophus]

Yes, I also have face blindness. However, I can recognize someone if I've seen a still photo of them — that is, I recognize them as the person depicted in the photo. I'd guess that my mind has interpreted the person in the photo as an object and not as a person.

People in movies, though, are hard to recognize. I was watching a movie with a friend once and one of the characters talked about having lived in Ireland. Later another character was talking about having lived in Ireland. "That's a clue!" I said to my friend. "Two characters and they have both lived in Ireland!" My friend said, "Um, that's the same character."

Oh, I'm so bad with photographs. For old school photos, I can't even recognize myself.

Movies and TV are hard, too. Whenever a character has different hair/is wearing a hat, I'm screwed!

[Hegemony]

I should clarify what I said about photos. What I mean is that if someone shows me a photo of, say, Clara Guggleheimer (I am making that name up), and says, "You need to find Clara Gugglehemier at the airport later, study this photo so you can recognize her," I can study the photo and recognize Clara at the airport.

If I know Clara in life and then you show me a photo of her and say "Who's this?", I can't guarantee I'll recognize her in the photo. Photos of myself, no way.
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