The Fora: A Higher Education Community

From the article:

QuoteThe thirteen undergraduate programs being cut are Arts Administration, Biblical/theological studies, Chemistry B.A., Chemistry B.S., Graphic design, Mathematics B.A., Mathematics B.S., Applied mathematics, Philosophy, Political science, Pre-law, Spanish and Theater.

    •    Bachelor's degree completion program Computer information systems is being cut, as well as graduate and seminary level programs M.A. in sports administration and M.A. in theology, Old Testament.

    •    The 88 students currently enrolled in those programs will be offered the classes and resources they need to complete their degrees on time.

88 students over 16 majors?!?!! Yeah, that's dire.

However, I'm not surprised at the programs getting cut. Some degree programs are the ones that everyone knee-jerks to cutting, and we all know which ones those are. Some degree programs are just too difficult to maintain enrollments, because most of the students at a place like Fresno Pacific are simply not up to the task, like in Chemistry & Math. "Easy" high enrollment/low overhead programs, including the faux-STEM programs, which attracted the marginal students who otherwise would flunk out or not come at all, are finding out that their degrees don't help them very much--the word is out. _______ administration programs have always been a joke, but they were able to fool many, for many years (it's easy to fool those who want to get an "admin" degree without taking Accounting, Math, Stats, & Analytics). Yeah, the word is out on those sports admin and arts admin programs, as well. As for Christians not wanting to study Theology. . . . well, most Christians aren't really interested in scholarly study of Christianity, ministry, and the Bible (not to mention that Latin is no longer required as part of a Theology major in many places--and the thought of them really wanting to read primary documents at all, just makes me cackle).

Quote from: lightning on November 12, 2023, 07:32:43 AMFrom the article:

QuoteThe thirteen undergraduate programs being cut are Arts Administration, Biblical/theological studies, Chemistry B.A., Chemistry B.S., Graphic design, Mathematics B.A., Mathematics B.S., Applied mathematics, Philosophy, Political science, Pre-law, Spanish and Theater.

    •    Bachelor's degree completion program Computer information systems is being cut, as well as graduate and seminary level programs M.A. in sports administration and M.A. in theology, Old Testament.

    •    The 88 students currently enrolled in those programs will be offered the classes and resources they need to complete their degrees on time.

88 students over 16 majors?!?!! Yeah, that's dire.

Especially when you consider the overlap of several of those programs, such as "Mathematics B.A., Mathematics B.S., Applied mathematics", that total number of students would potentially represent single-digit enrollments in some of them.

 

QuoteHowever, I'm not surprised at the programs getting cut. Some degree programs are the ones that everyone knee-jerks to cutting, and we all know which ones those are. Some degree programs are just too difficult to maintain enrollments, because most of the students at a place like Fresno Pacific are simply not up to the task, like in Chemistry & Math. "Easy" high enrollment/low overhead programs, including the faux-STEM programs, which attracted the marginal students who otherwise would flunk out or not come at all, are finding out that their degrees don't help them very much--the word is out. _______ administration programs have always been a joke, but they were able to fool many, for many years (it's easy to fool those who want to get an "admin" degree without taking Accounting, Math, Stats, & Analytics). Yeah, the word is out on those sports admin and arts admin programs, as well.

"Admin" is like "Studies"; the latter is used in place of "Science" for programs where "Basketweaving Studies" is code for "Basketweaving Science" but without any math.

Quote"Admin" is like "Studies"; the latter is used in place of "Science" for programs where "Basketweaving Studies" is code for "Basketweaving Science" but without any math.

I think the most sinister of them all is Arts Admin. Imagine a math-phobic person who couldn't make it through a business admin program because they can't pass Accounting or Calculus, but they're also not good enough to perform in the arts. If you were on the BOD for a non-profit performing arts organization, would you want to hire someone with an Arts Admin degree??!!??

The Bible itself is indeed a 'primary document'-- what other primary documents that you suggest Christians are not eager to read, do you think they ought to be reading?

Quote from: kaysixteen on November 12, 2023, 06:00:22 PMThe Bible itself is indeed a 'primary document'-- what other primary documents that you suggest Christians are not eager to read, do you think they ought to be reading?

I'm not a theology professor, but I can't imagine not examining writings from the early Christian Church. Boethius? Cassiodorus?

Yes, of course the Bible is a primary document, but I'm thinking beyond that because to base a 4-year curriculum solely on one book . . . . yeah, well . . . I suppose it would help retention!!! Ha ha.

Quote from: kaysixteen on November 12, 2023, 06:00:22 PMThe Bible itself is indeed a 'primary document'-- what other primary documents that you suggest Christians are not eager to read, do you think they ought to be reading?

When Luther wrote that every man is his own priest, it was meant as an inducement to study, not a pass on ignorance.

Zeroth, I am going to disregard those denominations/churches that have contempt for tradition and scholarship.  If a church thinks that they don't have anything to learn from 1800+ years of folks reading the Bible and making arguments about what it means, I don't have anything to say to them.

First, I would suggest that, if one is actually studying Christianity seriously, one should be familiar enough with Greek to make sense of translational issues for the New Testament.  (I suppose someone in certain Catholic circles could get away with Latin only, and there are a few people in crazy land who consider the King James the inspired version and everything else a pre-translation, but see point zero.)

After that, it's going to depend on which Christian tradition you prefer or are part of, but everyone should read some of the Church Fathers up to Augustine.  Lutherans should read Luther, Calvinists should read Calvin, and Catholics should read Aquinas and maybe Ignatius.  Methodists are lucky; they can read Wesley without learning another language.  The various denominations springing from the Radical Reformation have their own literature, though it tends to be less systematic.  All the various newfangled nondenominational folks are secretly one of the above theologically speaking (though I appreciate their desire to be structurally different and independent); some of them just ignore it to avoid studying.

Okay - I'm a universalist, so I don't have any prescriptions for a particular canon.  But for each person there is going to be *something* out there that will be useful to them, and they should look for it and read it.

Quote from: kaysixteen on November 12, 2023, 06:00:22 PMThe Bible itself is indeed a 'primary document'-- what other primary documents that you suggest Christians are not eager to read, do you think they ought to be reading?

John Donne?
William Wordsworth?
Paradise Lost
Last Temptation of Christ?
C.S. Lewis?
Richard Dawkins?
Christopher Hitchens? 

If Fresno Christian stops teaching the old testament, students can still take it at Fresno State. What keeps Fresno Christian competitive with Fresno State for kids in the SJV? Fresno State has a 97% acceptance rate, so they can get in. It is cheaper. Their philosphy department teaches a lot of religion courses, so they could have one every semester if they want that education.

Quote from: lightning on November 12, 2023, 07:32:43 AMFrom the article:

QuoteThe thirteen undergraduate programs being cut are Arts Administration, Biblical/theological studies, Chemistry B.A., Chemistry B.S., Graphic design, Mathematics B.A., Mathematics B.S., Applied mathematics, Philosophy, Political science, Pre-law, Spanish and Theater.

    •    Bachelor's degree completion program Computer information systems is being cut, as well as graduate and seminary level programs M.A. in sports administration and M.A. in theology, Old Testament.

    •    The 88 students currently enrolled in those programs will be offered the classes and resources they need to complete their degrees on time.

88 students over 16 majors?!?!! Yeah, that's dire.

However, I'm not surprised at the programs getting cut. Some degree programs are the ones that everyone knee-jerks to cutting, and we all know which ones those are. Some degree programs are just too difficult to maintain enrollments, because most of the students at a place like Fresno Pacific are simply not up to the task, like in Chemistry & Math. "Easy" high enrollment/low overhead programs, including the faux-STEM programs, which attracted the marginal students who otherwise would flunk out or not come at all, are finding out that their degrees don't help them very much--the word is out. _______ administration programs have always been a joke, but they were able to fool many, for many years (it's easy to fool those who want to get an "admin" degree without taking Accounting, Math, Stats, & Analytics). Yeah, the word is out on those sports admin and arts admin programs, as well. As for Christians not wanting to study Theology. . . . well, most Christians aren't really interested in scholarly study of Christianity, ministry, and the Bible (not to mention that Latin is no longer required as part of a Theology major in many places--and the thought of them really wanting to read primary documents at all, just makes me cackle).

It looks like the school is affiliated with a very small Mennonite denomination whose membership has likely been in decline in recent years.  They probably just aren't getting enough ministerial students anymore to support a full array of religious study programs, especially at the MA level. 

I don't know the situation at Fresno, but it's not unusual for colleges that still take their religious mission seriously to require all students to take some core collection courses in biblical studies of some kind.  I recall taking them at Alma Mater, and Alma Mater still requires them.  If Fresno has even dropped those sorts of courses--which it doesn't appear from this that they have--then they really have lost their sense of mission.

Quote from: apl68 on November 13, 2023, 09:10:39 AMIt looks like the school is affiliated with a very small Mennonite denomination whose membership has likely been in decline in recent years.  They probably just aren't getting enough ministerial students anymore to support a full array of religious study programs, especially at the MA level. 

The Mennonites here in the Northeast mostly leave school after eighth grade, a practice that reduces the proportion of college-attending 18-year-olds. I could see how that would exacerbate enrolment difficulties. It would be interesting to learn their "competitive market analysis" if they do such a thing.

Quote from: Hibush on November 13, 2023, 09:42:22 AM

Quote from: apl68 on November 13, 2023, 09:10:39 AMIt looks like the school is affiliated with a very small Mennonite denomination whose membership has likely been in decline in recent years.  They probably just aren't getting enough ministerial students anymore to support a full array of religious study programs, especially at the MA level. 

The Mennonites here in the Northeast mostly leave school after eighth grade, a practice that reduces the proportion of college-attending 18-year-olds. I could see how that would exacerbate enrolment difficulties. It would be interesting to learn their "competitive market analysis" if they do such a thing.

In my area (formerly) of the Midwest, Amish left after 8th grade, but not Mennonites. They have a number of small liberal arts colleges around the US.

Quote from: jimbogumbo on November 13, 2023, 10:08:07 AM

Quote from: Hibush on November 13, 2023, 09:42:22 AM

Quote from: apl68 on November 13, 2023, 09:10:39 AMIt looks like the school is affiliated with a very small Mennonite denomination whose membership has likely been in decline in recent years.  They probably just aren't getting enough ministerial students anymore to support a full array of religious study programs, especially at the MA level. 

The Mennonites here in the Northeast mostly leave school after eighth grade, a practice that reduces the proportion of college-attending 18-year-olds. I could see how that would exacerbate enrolment difficulties. It would be interesting to learn their "competitive market analysis" if they do such a thing.

In my area (formerly) of the Midwest, Amish left after 8th grade, but not Mennonites. They have a number of small liberal arts colleges around the US.

Yeah. The Amish and the Mennonites are often confounded with each other. They have a common origin, but split somewhere along the way. The Amish are stricter than the Mennonites but there is great variety within each group. As for education, the Amish limit it to 8^th grade, but the Mennonites promote education.

Here is a short description of differences Amish and Mennonites

Sorry for the derail! Old Order Mennonites share much in common with Amish, including no higher education.

https://christianhistoryinstitute.org/magazine/article/outsiders-guide-to-americas-anabaptists

It certainly is true that, outside of a few Old Order Menno sects, most Menno denoms, including not only some very very liberal ones (some are at least as lib as the UCC), but also many very conservative ones who would eagerly be classed with conservative evangelical protestants, not only like higher ed but also run their own colleges (and seminaries for ministers), which is a good thing for them, because, ahem...

well, these conservative groups, like other conservative evangelical ones, have little use for higher criticism and other assorted elements of biblical and theological studies that are accepted by mainline protestants.   Like it or not.

Saw this today:

UA has much less cash on hand than the Board of Regents requires. The faculty is accusing the administration of financial mismanagement.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/11/16/university-arizona-miscalculated-cash-hand-millions