The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

Well, the axe just fell at Artem U.  The list of proposed programs to cut and faculty to downsize has been released.  Another 6 weeks worth of meetings and discussions to "approve" the recommendations before they are finalized.  But when is the last time any of these "recommendations" were not carried out when the time came.

Quote from: secundem_artem on March 03, 2024, 11:03:54 AMWell, the axe just fell at Artem U.  The list of proposed programs to cut and faculty to downsize has been released.  Another 6 weeks worth of meetings and discussions to "approve" the recommendations before they are finalized.  But when is the last time any of these "recommendations" were not carried out when the time came.

Sorry to hear that! Does it feel like there recommendations are "too little, too late" or is there potental for the consolidated effort to make headway? We have covered a lot of symptoms of winding down on this forum.

Quote from: FishProf on March 03, 2024, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

This is really illuminating.  Our shuddering but not yet foundering uni tanked its nursing program last year to many gasps of surprise.  Our doctors' offices all have staffing shortages.  Our GP has a sign at its front desk which reads "Please be patient.  We are short-staffed."

At some point society is going to have to make an adjustment for this shortfall. 

Quote from: Hibush on March 03, 2024, 03:15:11 PM

Quote from: secundem_artem on March 03, 2024, 11:03:54 AMWell, the axe just fell at Artem U.  The list of proposed programs to cut and faculty to downsize has been released.  Another 6 weeks worth of meetings and discussions to "approve" the recommendations before they are finalized.  But when is the last time any of these "recommendations" were not carried out when the time came.

Sorry to hear that! Does it feel like there recommendations are "too little, too late" or is there potental for the consolidated effort to make headway? We have covered a lot of symptoms of winding down on this forum.

To the extent that it's actually possible, I think the general belief on campus is that the powers that be have genuinely tried to be as transparent and collegial as possible.  Faculty senate et al. have tried to look at the big picture - the health of the institution and not so much at the effects on Dept X or Program Y. Here's hoping that attitude remains.  But we are now at the point where people know what and who they are fighting for, so the gloves may come off and self-interest may yet prevail.

Ideally, we should have started this process 5 years ago but I don't think we are at the point of too little too late.  The wolf is not at the door, but we can hear him howling in the distance.

Quote from: FishProf on March 03, 2024, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

This has been my experience also.

Quote from: emera gratia on February 29, 2024, 02:06:13 PMNotre Dame College of Ohio to close after this semester; they tried to negotiate a merger with Cleveland State University, but apparently couldn't make it work.

You could see this coming from a mile away 10 years ago.

Quote from: spork on March 03, 2024, 08:10:52 PM

Quote from: FishProf on March 03, 2024, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

This has been my experience also.

I was thinking of some of the fly-by-night schools in the city, where the "school" is on one of the floors of a high-rise building. Some of them do get shut down--see the first one on the list--, but not before gouging students.

So sorry to hear this, Artem.  Thinking of you and your colleagues.

Quote from: AmLitHist on March 04, 2024, 07:10:51 AMSo sorry to hear this, Artem.  Thinking of you and your colleagues.

Thank you for the kind thoughts!

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 03, 2024, 03:46:27 PM

Quote from: FishProf on March 03, 2024, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

This is really illuminating.  Our shuddering but not yet foundering uni tanked its nursing program last year to many gasps of surprise.  Our doctors' offices all have staffing shortages.  Our GP has a sign at its front desk which reads "Please be patient.  We are short-staffed."

At some point society is going to have to make an adjustment for this shortfall. 

Sounds like another case of the almighty Market falling down on the job when it comes to providing a public good.

Quote from: apl68 on March 04, 2024, 08:01:10 AM

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 03, 2024, 03:46:27 PM

Quote from: FishProf on March 03, 2024, 10:19:41 AM

Quote from: Langue_doc on March 03, 2024, 09:36:49 AMNursing programs seem to be quite profitable for institutions in and around NYC (just google nursing schools nyc). I can think of at least a couple of colleges that beefed up their nursing programs so that they could stay afloat.

From my experience at several Northeast colleges/universities, Nursing programs are NOT money makers.  The cost of labs and equipment for training, and the cost (and limited availability) of clinical faculty and placements are significant burdens to the University.  My school keeps pushing for more and more nursing students (butts in seats) but balks at hiring FT faculty to teach them.  Our nursing program had to hire a PhD nursing faculty/ass. dean or lose their accreditation last year (and this is a high ranked program in the area).

Hospitals have nursing shortages, which impairs their ability to provide clinical training on-site.  Which means fewer nurses.  A vicious cycle.

Here's an article touching on some of these issues.

This is really illuminating.  Our shuddering but not yet foundering uni tanked its nursing program last year to many gasps of surprise.  Our doctors' offices all have staffing shortages.  Our GP has a sign at its front desk which reads "Please be patient.  We are short-staffed."

At some point society is going to have to make an adjustment for this shortfall. 

Sounds like another case of the almighty Market falling down on the job when it comes to providing a public good.

If am RN (with a good chunk of overtime) can make more than a Nursing Professor, there is little incentive for this nursing shortage to go away. Finding instructors in nursing, and other allied health professions for that matter, is very challenging. I think that, in this case, throwing money at the problem may be a solution--albeit one that universities and legislatures are loath to consider.

QuoteSounds like another case of the almighty Market falling down on the job when it comes to providing a public good.

Watch your language!

Nursing does not provide a public good. The service a nurse provides me cannot be consumed by my neighbor. All of medicine -- except public health [note the name] provides strictly private goods.

The number of nurses per capita in the US has increased rapidly. However, an odd thing happened in 2021. About 100,000 nurses dropped out of their profession. This could be a temporary drop caused by Covid. Whatever.

But nursing providing private goods means market would work. 'Ya want more nurses, raise their wages!

QuoteI think that, in this case, throwing money at the problem may be a solution--albeit one that universities and legislatures are loath to consider.

But all of health care is highly regulated by government. Same is true for financing nurse education, of course. That makes a wage rise a political issue, and nobody wants to pay!

"Based on last fall's enrollment numbers, the cuts would affect 147 undergraduates and 287 graduate students, and would result in as many as 169 faculty-line reductions."

https://www.chronicle.com/article/why-is-west-virginia-u-making-sweeping-cuts

2.6 to 1 major to faculty ratio among those programs.  That's outstanding, and not in a good way. I am sure their class enrollments were regularly in the single digits. 

It's really not a good time to be a faculty member in languages, humanities and social sciences.  Tenure is on it's way out.  But, it was a sweet sweet ride while it lasted, wasn't it?

mm

Our president just resigned. I have no reason to be suspicious, save that he was rather optimistic about our international student numbers (which we absolutely depend on) despite the federal cap, which seemed... Not correct.

Perhaps it's the beginning of the end.