The Fora: A Higher Education Community

Quote from: apl68 on March 07, 2024, 07:42:30 AMIt's not your (usually starvation cheap) humanities people who are causing your deficits, it's relentlessly rising costs, declining student numbers, and the cumulative effects of decades of underinvestment.

Yep. Looking at Valpo, CSU, and Toledo ... these are schools that I thought were well resourced, but the enrollment trends are pretty brutal.

ARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

Quote from: Cheerful on March 07, 2024, 09:34:22 AMUniversity of Toledo will suspend admissions and prepare to close a bunch of undergrad and grad programs next academic year:
https://www.utoledo.edu/offices/provost/prioritization/

They assert: "While there may be some immediate cost savings, the goals of this effort are more focused on growth as UToledo's student enrollment, retention and graduation rates improve as the University becomes more competitive."

Not sure what the distinction was in some cases--between "Media Communication" and "Communication Studies," or "Bachelor of Arts in Music" and "Bachelor of Music."  Looks like they may be eliminating some redundancies there.

A "Bachelor of Arts in Music" is often a performance degree as opposed to a purely academic study degree, I believe. 

Quote from: apl68 on March 07, 2024, 07:42:30 AM

Quote from: polly_mer on March 06, 2024, 07:36:12 PMDrake University is cutting programs: https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/03/04/drake-university-recommends-cutting-academic-programs-positions/

No cuts to English, History, and arts at Drake?  Wonder if that means they've already eliminated most of those faculty and majors?

Nope  But they are opening a new nursing program.

https://www.drake.edu/nursing/index.php

Quote from: selecter on March 07, 2024, 09:46:53 AM

Quote from: apl68 on March 07, 2024, 07:42:30 AMIt's not your (usually starvation cheap) humanities people who are causing your deficits, it's relentlessly rising costs, declining student numbers, and the cumulative effects of decades of underinvestment.

Yep. Looking at Valpo, CSU, and Toledo ... these are schools that I thought were well resourced, but the enrollment trends are pretty brutal.

ARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

No.

What it really means is that the Carnegie unit-credit hour/8 semester/auxiliary revenue business model needs to go away, but it won't, because a different model is not in the interests of those running the organizations.

Quote from: selecter on March 07, 2024, 09:46:53 AMARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

In a sense, yes that sort of thing happens at schools that go on to do well, but perhaps a bit differently.

At a school whose ship is very steady, there is a lot of trimming, renovation and refreshing of the offerings all the time. New majors are announced on a regular basis. With constant faculty numbers, the addition also means that majors with declining enrollment go away. There is no press release announcing the end of the major, because it is not newsworthy.

The difference is probably that poorly managed schools don't have those new offerings in place in anticipation of the new needs. And the new needs are often similar to existing stuff--environmental science changes to sustainability science for instance. So the existing faculty and strong infrastructure are used to full extent (indeed they lead the effort.) It is not a situation like changing from Russian literature to nursing. 

Quote from: Hibush on March 07, 2024, 07:03:10 PM

Quote from: selecter on March 07, 2024, 09:46:53 AMARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

In a sense, yes that sort of thing happens at schools that go on to do well, but perhaps a bit differently.

This is what the shifting admin at my wife's uni is hoping for as they try to transition to a STEM / business school.

So far they have mostly had bad press.

Quote from: apl68 on March 07, 2024, 12:21:39 PMNot sure what the distinction was in some cases--between "Media Communication" and "Communication Studies," or "Bachelor of Arts in Music" and "Bachelor of Music."  Looks like they may be eliminating some redundancies there.

A BA in Music is typically a liberal arts degree while a Bachelor of Music is a professional music degree.

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 07, 2024, 07:24:45 PM

Quote from: Hibush on March 07, 2024, 07:03:10 PM

Quote from: selecter on March 07, 2024, 09:46:53 AMARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

In a sense, yes that sort of thing happens at schools that go on to do well, but perhaps a bit differently.

This is what the shifting admin at my wife's uni is hoping for as they try to transition to a STEM / business school.

So far they have mostly had bad press.

Bad press is indeed not the product you want. Sorry to hear that.

Does the school already have the ingredients (staff, facilities, alumni) to reorganize into a good STEM Business school? Or are they trying to create one de novo and compete with a bunch of well-established and efficient producers of STEM and business graduates.

Quote from: Hibush on March 08, 2024, 10:45:09 AMThis is what the shifting admin at my wife's uni is hoping for as they try to transition to a STEM / business school.

So far they have most

Quote from: Hibush on March 08, 2024, 10:45:09 AM

Quote from: Wahoo Redux on March 07, 2024, 07:24:45 PM

Quote from: Hibush on March 07, 2024, 07:03:10 PM

Quote from: selecter on March 07, 2024, 09:46:53 AMARE there schools that trim this way and right the ship? Because this type of word of mouth isn't the least bit likely to attract students, even for programs that remain.

In a sense, yes that sort of thing happens at schools that go on to do well, but perhaps a bit differently.

This is what the shifting admin at my wife's uni is hoping for as they try to transition to a STEM / business school.

So far they have mostly had bad press.

Bad press is indeed not the product you want. Sorry to hear that.

Does the school already have the ingredients (staff, facilities, alumni) to reorganize into a good STEM Business school? Or are they trying to create one de novo and compete with a bunch of well-established and efficient producers of STEM and business graduates.

ly had bad press.

Bad press is indeed not the product you want. Sorry to hear that.

Does the school already have the ingredients (staff, facilities, alumni) to reorganize into a good STEM Business school? Or are they trying to create one de novo and compete with a bunch of well-established and efficient producers of STEM and business graduates.

Some from column A and some from column B.

The uni was a fairly typical R2 / Div II land grant, de facto open-enrollment institution with a healthy population of around 11K students (down from 15K at its height in 2010) which was hurt by COVID and now seems to be running into the demographic cliff made steeper by a declining regional population.  This is also an extremely Trumpy part of the world.

In short, the uni's brand was pretty darn generic and offered a typical breadth of majors...until the decline, and now low-enrollment majors and programs have been sliced and diced, and it is likely that more cuts are on the way. 

So, yeah, the school has a solid STEM program for the most part except that they cut nursing and have been shaving down chemistry. It does not seem that they want to expand, simply to shore up the meagre offerings already on the books.  It's hard to know since the admin is very tight lipped and the union is very adversarial toward them.

All of this (and some more specific and spectacular debacles) has gotten a lot of bad press and actually aggravated some doners enough to withdraw their funding.  The university foundation recently announced the stupidest plan to attract money I have ever heard.

I think the school will continue to limp around the block for a while, but it is already not the school it once was.

Here's a place that really did it wrong, but sports goes on (for a bit): https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39684474/antelope-state-play-tournament-school-shutdown

Quote from: jimbogumbo on March 08, 2024, 11:23:20 AMHere's a place that really did it wrong, but sports goes on (for a bit): https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/39684474/antelope-state-play-tournament-school-shutdown

Well, they raised the money themselves.  At least they get something out of their education. 

St. Norbert is now cutting all assistant professors in the humanities (apart from theology), and ending healthcare coverage for emeritus faculty over 65.

Fontbonne U. will close.

Fontbonne was included on this list from 2018.

Has anyone produced any projections of how decreased capacity in the *system due to places closing tracks with decreasing enrollment over time? In other words, it the amount of excess capacity getting better (i.e. lower) or worse (i.e. larger)?

*I realize that each state kind of is its own "system" in this regard, but are there even projections for any specific states?